Is Ottawa the City that Fun Forgot?

[CongoJack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Ottawa is a middle class city. Very few people in Ottawa are rich-rich (like 250k+), or poor. Almost everybody is middle to upper middle class. These are the kind of the people who are wealthy enough to be financially comfortable but not wealthy enough to be classy or hedonistic. They're also the kind of people who are more focused on raising the kids, buying more nice stuff for your house, etc. rather than going out to party, and also the kind of people who like to play it safe.

These kind of people are also the type who are generally satisfied with their lives, which is why a lot of the people who live here don't have much issue with the city's boringness. Those who aren't in this demographic will obviously get restless & uncomfortable living in this city. But if you are one of those upper-middle class people I described above, Ottawa is heaven.

Anyone have any statistics on income distribution in Ottawa vs. other Canadian cities?

I generally agree with you, though I think career choice has a lot to do with it as well. Ottawa is largely a government town, and many people are drawn to work for government because of the security and benefits. These people may be more comfortable being "boring".

That being said, I'm a transplanted Montrealer and I like Ottawa. One thing I do find different is the vibe on the street. I could walk around Montreal at most times in many different neighbourhoods and return refreshed and energized. In Ottawa, taking a walk can actually be depressing: the empty streets, the uninspired street-scape and architecture, the people (this may just be me, but I find Ottawans have very poor etiquette in public spaces. I don't think it is purposeful, but most people just seem oblivious to those around them and how to maneuver in crowds or on the bus).

[waterloowarrior]

Ottawa has the highest median census family income of all CMAs in Canada
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tabl...il107a-eng.htm

I looked up personal income for several CMAs... interesting results

[eternallyme]

Yet from the many small towns around Ottawa, there is even less "fun" to be had...even considering their populations. With the exception of Kingston, the smaller cities and towns of eastern Ontario are anything but fun centres in the sense of urban atmospheres.

[ue]

I find it ironic how my post was the only one edited despite the "be nice everyone" remark...

Originally Posted by bartlebooth

Fair enough. I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment that Ottawa is 'the city that fun forgot', I do see how some might think of it as such (especially if the last time they visited was 5-10 + years ago) but I think that is an unwarranted title in 2014. Just for the record, I have been to Edmonton once, it was nice. Though I didn't have a chance to experience this energy you speak of when I was there, I hope I will get a chance to see that someday.

Let me clarify that I'm sure that Ottawa isn't a "city that fun forgot" but I can see why some might think that. When I was there a couple years ago, although it was underwhelming in some regards, I still liked many aspects of the city. It still has a nice roster of amenities.

The energy I'm referring to I think is largely related to the booming economy, which comes with a surge of new people with new ideas, frantic construction (including new landmarks), and a large youthful population (i.e. although popular, not everyone is moving here to settle down). I know it isn't comparable to the energy of New York or Berlin or Toronto, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. I think it's more pronounced in Calgary just because of the more boisterous attitude down there, but things have been picking up considerably here in Edmonton as well.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by TOexpat

I attribute this mostly to the fact that it is a government town that attracts risk averse people. It is the antithesis of creative or innovative.

Think you hit the nail on the head there. I worked in Ottawa on a project for 6 months during the mid 90's, living on Lower Town with an expense account. Besides the gloomy skies and endless slush, it was an ok place but definitely lacked any sense of hustle. Business cities are always more fun because people are more likely to push themselves beyond their comfort zones.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Ottawa has the highest median census family income of all CMAs in Canada
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tabl...il107a-eng.htm

I looked up personal income for several CMAs... interesting results

Statistical validation of the fact that Ottawa has fewer rich people and fewer poor people than other cities. Note that Ottawa has a smaller % of people making 200k+ than Toronto despite the fact that Ottawa has much higher median income.

[EdFromOttawa]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Take a deep breath and calm yourself down.

I wasn't comparing Edmonton/Calgary to New York. I was giving an example of a city with energy. Neither Edmonton nor Calgary are valid examples. Sorry.

Now run along.

I'm not sure acting condescending and ignorant about the issue is helping Ottawans' image...

The majority of people posting to this forum seem to agree Ottawa lacks the energy, vibe, and 'fun' factor of any city >750,000 in Canada. I would completely agree. Unless you can provide me with quantitative proof that counters the fact Ottawa has NO major event venues downtown for example...how could anyone agree with you that Ottawa doesn't need a major readjustment in its development priorities?

Edmonton and Calgary have all the amenities of a major city; hell they've both had LRT for decades...at a time when they were smaller than Ottawa even! These are the kinds of things Ottawa needs to catch up.

Granted we're working on it, but it's slow progress, and I think the general Ottawa anti-risk mindset illustrated more eloquently by others above + the mountains and mountains of regulative red tape heaped on this city (NCC ) makes it really tough for Ottawa to acquire that 'fun' character...

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by bartlebooth

I see where you are coming from; that on the surface, Ottawa seems sterile. It might appear that outside of a few central districts, it lacks a certain vibrancy. When it comes to Ottawa though, I find a lot of people don't seem to want to look beyond the surface for whatever reason. They judge without really knowing what is going on (maybe that is normal?). There is an energy in this city too many people do not see or care to discover. You might be surprised what you can find going on here if you are willing to step outside of your comfort zone a little bit or just ignore what people say (Ottawa is boring, there is nothing to do, etc...) and look for yourself. If you are determined to have a good time, I think you can have that in this city.

But if fun is hiding in an undisclosed location, or has to be conducted in secret then I'm not sure it meets a globally-accepted definition of fun. I'm sure some crazy shit goes down Riyadh too.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

I'm not sure acting condescending and ignorant about the issue is helping Ottawans' image...

The majority of people posting to this forum seem to agree Ottawa lacks the energy, vibe, and 'fun' factor of any city >750,000 in Canada. I would completely agree. Unless you can provide me with quantitative proof that counters the fact Ottawa has NO major event venues downtown for example...how could anyone agree with you that Ottawa doesn't need a major readjustment in its development priorities?

Edmonton and Calgary have all the amenities of a major city; hell they've both had LRT for decades...at a time when they were smaller than Ottawa even! These are the kinds of things Ottawa needs to catch up.

Granted we're working on it, but it's slow progress, and I think the general Ottawa anti-risk mindset illustrated more eloquently by others above + the mountains and mountains of regulative red tape heaped on this city (NCC ) makes it really tough for Ottawa to acquire that 'fun' character...

This is a pretty subjective conversation, which is based on some small sample sizes. I've spent some time in Calgary, and frankly I didn't see any more energy there than I find in Ottawa. Not to slag Calgary specifically, but my impression was of a sprawly suburban city with a downtown that clears out at night. It also had the distinct feel of a city that grew rapidly and is now trying to play catch-up on the cultural side. And as for the large-event category, I seriously doubt that it can match Ottawa's major festivals that basically run from May through September.

Even if you accept the generalization that people who work in the public sector are risk-averse (I don't), you've still got a big high-tech cluster here, and in most cases, those people are the opposite of risk-averse. Granted, it doesn't help that most of that cluster is in Kanata, but it does impact the culture of the city.

Either way, you won't have to wait long for that major event venue downtown, as Lansdowne opens July 18.

[Acajack]

I will state again that I find Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa to be roughly equivalent for the topic we are discussing here.

There are some things that the Alberta cities have that Ottawa doesn't, and vice versa.

Overall it evens out.

Ottawa doesn't really have rail based transit and it has less of a business and youth oriented energy and can-do get up and go, but on the other hand it has the Byward Market which the other two do not.

Ottawa also has (or has access to) a fully-developed cultural scene in French that runs in parallel to the majority anglophone scene. While francophone culture is present in the Alberta cities, the francophone cultural scene in Ottawa-Gatineau is almost similar in scale to the cultural scene of an independent city of 250-300,000 elsewhere in Canada.

So you really have that two-in-one built in to this region's cultural dynamic.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I will state again that I find Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa to be roughly equivalent for the topic we are discussing here.

There are some things that the Alberta cities have that Ottawa doesn't, and vice versa.

Overall it evens out.

Ottawa doesn't really have rail based transit and it has less of a business and youth oriented energy and can-do get up and go, but on the other hand it has the Byward Market which the other two do not.

Ottawa also has (or has access to) a fully-developed cultural scene in French that runs in parallel to the majority anglophone scene. While francophone culture is present in the Alberta cities, the francophone cultural scene in Ottawa-Gatineau is almost similar in scale to the cultural scene of an independent city of 250-300,000 elsewhere in Canada.

So you really have that two-in-one built in to this region's cultural dynamic.

Agree with all of this. Am also quite puzzled as to when being a business-oriented city came to equal being a fun city. Very odd perspective.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

I'm not sure acting condescending and ignorant about the issue is helping Ottawans' image...

You mean the image of being self-loathing, dossile, passive, and submissive? If so, then, you're welcome.

The majority of people posting to this forum seem to agree Ottawa lacks the energy, vibe, and 'fun' factor of any city >750,000 in Canada. I would completely agree.

I don't know what forum you're reading, but I wouldn't agree.

Unless you can provide me with quantitative proof that counters the fact Ottawa has NO major event venues downtown for example

The discussion is about whether or not Ottawa is "fun", not whether or not there is a single, 4-walled, event venue downtown.

- Lansdowne: for the sporting, shopping types
- NAC: for the artsy types
- Ottawa Convention Center: for the trade-show, convention, periodic concert types
- Rideau Center: for the shopping types
- Byward Market, Little Italy, Elgin St.: for the dining, night club, farmer's market types
- Rideau Canal, Dow's Lake: for the Winterlude, skating, summer floating types
- Lebreton Flats: for the Bluesfest types
- Parliament Hill: for the Canada Day, protesting types
- A plethora of museums: for the knowledge-seeking types
- Miles of recreational pathways: for the active types
- Confederation Park: for the Winterlude types
- [insert multiple site names here]: for the Winterlude, Tulip Festival, Bluesfest, Jazzfest, Chamber Music Festival, Canada Day, Italian Festival, Greek Festival, Lebanese Festival, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

...how could anyone agree with you that Ottawa doesn't need a major readjustment in its development priorities?

Please point me to where I said Ottawa doesn't need a major readjustment in its development priorities. This is what I call "scope creep". i.e., the inability to stay on-topic.

Edmonton and Calgary have all the amenities of a major city;

As does Ottawa. So?

hell they've both had LRT for decades...at a time when they were smaller than Ottawa even!

So having LRT equates to a "fun" city? That is, after all, what this conversation is about.

Anyway, using that logic when our LRT is up-and-running, complete with the downtown subway (that Calgary doesn't have, for example), I guess Ottawa will be at least as "fun" as Edmonton, and more "fun" than Calgary.

Can't wait.

Edit after reading Acajack's post: None of what I mentioned above touches on the fact that there is a separate municipality across the river with its own influences on the region and "fun" offerings (casino, fireworks competitions, dining, night life, strip clubs, etc. etc. etc.)

[Acajack]

I don't know if it's been mentioned other than a negative here, so I will say this: Ottawa's proximity to Montreal and Toronto can actually be a "plus" when it comes to fun and urbane pleasures.

Ottawa doesn't have an amusement park but La Ronde and Wonderland are reasonably accesible (La Ronde in fact is an easy day-trip). Actually, basically everything in the Greater Montreal area is an easy day trip from Ottawa. Even stuff slightly beyond like the zoo in Granby or Parc Safari are (recognizing that Ottawa doesn't have a zoo).

As is the Mont-Tremblant area in the Laurentians.

[teej1984]

Maybe instead of talking about how fun has forgotten Ottawa (which I dont necessarily think it has), we could talk a bit more about how fun could be encouraged here!

To me, one of the things that is missing here, and something that IS improving ever since Nuit Blanche came to town, are temporary outdoor art exhibits/street art. In Montreal, for example, you have Sainte-Catherine lined with displays above the (closed) street in the summer. This encourages people to stroll, take tons of pics and inspires. Where would be a great place for this to go? Sparks or Elgin! They made some pathetic attempts with lights this winter along Sparks, but there is a huge room for improvement here.

Also, with respect to the Mayor suggesting we need more murals in the underpasses (similar to what exists on Preston), why not have one of these underpasses turned into a graffiti space. Graffiti doesnt need to be ugly and can produce some of the most amazing art around.

Finally, I think by improving the lighting on some of the buildings in the DT Core/Market, you will instantly make things look more exciting. There is a new club at Bank/Slater that recently installed some LED lighting (red/purple/blue) and it has improved the look of that intersection TREMENDOUSLY! Get some more interesting lighting on buildings and bam, everything looks better.

Overall, Ottawa seems to be obsessed with monuments, yet they are not often very monumental. I think we need to look away from these attempts at grandeur and start improving the street level experience by integrating interesting, and temporary, exhibits that attract people to visit areas over certain periods of time (how awesome would this duck be on the Canal, for example: https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n..._3200336_n.jpg).

[S-Man]

Am also quite puzzled as to when being a business-oriented city came to equal being a fun city. Very odd perspective.

I think it implies a willingness (and ability) to think outside of the box and reward people who do so, rather than handing prospective entrepreneurs and business startups a pre-formed box while saying "fit in here, and don't do anything crazy".

So, in other words, *not Bay Street* - Instead, I give the example of a former rust belt city that embraces startups and sees fresh ideas, businesses and events due to those coming to the city for the opportunity. It creates an energy.

Other posters (the less caustic ones) made good points in this thread, and I do think talking about how to encourage fun and energy in Ottawa demands we identify things that are impeding this. Sometimes hard to not generalize.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by S-Man

I think it implies a willingness (and ability) to think outside of the box and reward people who do so, rather than handing prospective entrepreneurs and business startups a pre-formed box while saying "fit in here, and don't do anything crazy".

So, in other words, *not Bay Street* - Instead, I give the example of a former rust belt city that embraces startups and sees fresh ideas, businesses and events due to those coming to the city for the opportunity. It creates an energy.

Other posters (the less caustic ones) made good points in this thread, and I do think talking about how to encourage fun and energy in Ottawa demands we identify things that are impeding this. Sometimes hard to not generalize.

Yeah, fair enough. The cities with the coolest things going on are often the ones that have gone through some sort of economic meltdown. It would be nice to be able to move in that direction without the meltdown.

I would say that in terms of implementing forward-looking urbanist ideas, Montreal is far ahead of the (Canadian) pack. And in that case it's usually the municipal levels of government behind those types of initiatives (street closures, public spaces, pedestrian and cycling infrastructure etc.) which in theory lead to the opportunity for the fun and energy and spontaneous development to come about. In my view, it's often more about government doing the right things to encourage the city to take the next step than it is about regulation.

So its not as simple as government just getting out of the way. But yes, silly by-laws and fees can act as a drag on the willingness of business to experiment.

[OTSkyline]

I think we exceed in terms of museum and festivals.
Museums (Nature, War, Science & Tech, Canadian History, Art Gallery, Aviation)
Festivals (Winterlude, Race Weekend, Tulip Festival, Canada Day, Bluesfest, Jazzfest, Electronic/Dance Music Festival (forget what it's called).
I don't think Edmonton, Calgary or even Vancouver have as many museums and festivals as us...


I think where Ottawa lacks "fun" is in:
-Retail (but finally getting a lot better with Bayshore, Rideau expansions)

-Downtown liveliness (other than the byward on weekends, the "downtown core" is often empty. Hopefully this will change with Rideau and Sparks St. revelopment and alot more condo towers and permanent residents in downtown.

-People/style. For me "fun" big cities, is people-watching and seeing all the different kinds of people, some dressed in different/weird outfits go by etc.. In Ottawa most people are 9-5 government workers in business casual attire (or in Jeans on Fridays )

-Arts Scene: Big cities usually have a lot of fun art going on. People singing and playing guitars in public squares or transit stops (have you ever seen someone sing/play at an OC transpo stop? didn't think so..) As far as I know there is 1 spot (in the market next to Tucker's Marketplace) where if I wanna show street-performers to visiting relatives, that's where I need to go. I would also like interesting architecture, billboards & colourful advertisements, and contemporary public art. (I like the idea of the huge rubber ducky) or anything really (think of the bean in Chicago). Ottawa's version of "public art" is red painted bench tucked away on Somerset -_-

[ue]

Originally Posted by phil235

This is a pretty subjective conversation, which is based on some small sample sizes. I've spent some time in Calgary, and frankly I didn't see any more energy there than I find in Ottawa. Not to slag Calgary specifically, but my impression was of a sprawly suburban city with a downtown that clears out at night.

And Ottawa is different how, exactly? Sprawl just skipped over the greenbelt and continues on unabated like in Calgary. Downtown Ottawa can be pretty quiet into the evening as focus shifts towards Lowertown, not unlike how the focus shifts to the Beltline or Kensington in Calgary.

It also had the distinct feel of a city that grew rapidly and is now trying to play catch-up on the cultural side. And as for the large-event category, I seriously doubt that it can match Ottawa's major festivals that basically run from May through September.

Within Alberta, Edmonton is the city with a more "cultural" side. It has the major festivals, performing art venues, concerts (Saddledome is shit for big name concerts), art galleries, museum, etc.

But while Calgary is playing catch up, it still has a lot. It's festival scene has really upped its game and well there is Stampede which is like a week long Canada Day. Cantos Music Centre is also under construction.

Edmonton also recently rebuilt the AGA (Art Gallery of Alberta), and the new RAM is currently under construction. The Winspear is planning an expansion and every year more and more festivals pop up. There's also been a boom in new farmers markets.

Even if you accept the generalization that people who work in the public sector are risk-averse (I don't), you've still got a big high-tech cluster here, and in most cases, those people are the opposite of risk-averse. Granted, it doesn't help that most of that cluster is in Kanata, but it does impact the culture of the city.

Either way, you won't have to wait long for that major event venue downtown, as Lansdowne opens July 18.

Edmonton also has a bit of a tech scene, though I won't argue it's anything like Kitchener-Waterloo or even Ottawa.

Originally Posted by phil235

Agree with all of this. Am also quite puzzled as to when being a business-oriented city came to equal being a fun city. Very odd perspective.

It's not the business aspect of it. Re-read my post on this. By that logic, Manhattan should be deader than a doornail.

So having LRT equates to a "fun" city? That is, after all, what this conversation is about.

Anyway, using that logic when our LRT is up-and-running, complete with the downtown subway (that Calgary doesn't have, for example), I guess Ottawa will be at least as "fun" as Edmonton, and more "fun" than Calgary.

Can't wait.

Well, I'd agree that LRT doesn't necessarily make a city more fun, it does make it feel more urbane, and can lead to things like this:


Vif String Quartet by Alistair Henning, on Flickr


Mercury Opera's 104 Underground by mastermaq, on Flickr

That's not to say Ottawa couldn't do something unique with one of its features that may not be present in Edmonton, but LRT can add to a city's vibrancy if it is wanted.

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

I think we exceed in terms of museum and festivals.
Museums (Nature, War, Science & Tech, Canadian History, Art Gallery, Aviation)
Festivals (Winterlude, Race Weekend, Tulip Festival, Canada Day, Bluesfest, Jazzfest, Electronic/Dance Music Festival (forget what it's called).
I don't think Edmonton, Calgary or even Vancouver have as many museums and festivals as us...

Museums...definitely not. That is one of Ottawa's best assets and it makes sense it has all those museums as the national capital. Festivals...you do realize Edmonton is recognized as a 'festival city' and that Calgary has been catching up to Edmonton in that regard a lot over the past decade.

For your Ottawa festivals, I raise you Fringe (2nd largest in the world), Heritage Fest, Folk Fest, Canadian Finals Rodeo, Deep Freeze, Whyte Ave Art Walk, the Works Art & Design Festival, the Dragon Boat Races, Cariwest, and dozens more.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't know if it's been mentioned other than a negative here, so I will say this: Ottawa's proximity to Montreal and Toronto can actually be a "plus" when it comes to fun and urbane pleasures.

Ottawa doesn't have an amusement park but La Ronde and Wonderland are reasonably accesible (La Ronde in fact is an easy day-trip). Actually, basically everything in the Greater Montreal area is an easy day trip from Ottawa. Even stuff slightly beyond like the zoo in Granby or Parc Safari are (recognizing that Ottawa doesn't have a zoo).

As is the Mont-Tremblant area in the Laurentians.

We do have a zoo... Papanack near Rockland.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by ue

And Ottawa is different how, exactly? Sprawl just skipped over the greenbelt and continues on unabated like in Calgary. Downtown Ottawa can be pretty quiet into the evening as focus shifts towards Lowertown, not unlike how the focus shifts to the Beltline or Kensington in Calgary.

Ottawa has its share of sprawl, no question. I was just trying to say that Calgary is at least as bad, and probably worse by most standards. And neither of the areas that you mention in Calgary has the concentration of activity that the Market has. The Market really is an area that is unique amongst Canadian cities.

Calgary is a fine city, but contrary to some of the comments on this thread, I don't think it has much on Ottawa.

Edmonton also has a bit of a tech scene, though I won't argue it's anything like Kitchener-Waterloo or even Ottawa.

While K-W gets the hype, Ottawa has a much bigger tech scene in terms of employment.

It's not the business aspect of it. Re-read my post on this. By that logic, Manhattan should be deader than a doornail.

Manhattan is more than a business district. And the downtown business district, while coming on, actually is quite dead in comparison to the rest of the island.

Festivals...you do realize Edmonton is recognized as a 'festival city' and that Calgary has been catching up to Edmonton in that regard a lot over the past decade.

For your Ottawa festivals, I raise you Fringe (2nd largest in the world), Heritage Fest, Folk Fest, Canadian Finals Rodeo, Deep Freeze, Whyte Ave Art Walk, the Works Art & Design Festival, the Dragon Boat Races, Cariwest, and dozens more.

No doubt the Alberta cities are coming on, but Ottawa can pretty much match your entire list - Wellington Art Walks, Fringe Festival, largest Dragon Boat festival in Canada, Folkfest, Westfest etc. However, I will grant you rodeo.

As I mentioned, I had no intention of slagging Calgary. My intent was more to point out that some of the criticism of Ottawa is unfair. Not as vibrant as Montreal, sure, but it certainly holds its own against similar-sized cities.