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  #4041  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2012, 2:50 AM
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Combined housing and transportation cost map

An interactive map --apparently just issued/expanded -- which shows the combined cost of housing and transportation as a percentage of average income by neighborhood for over 900 US urban areas.

The H&T affordability index

http://htaindex.cnt.org/
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  #4042  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2012, 5:49 AM
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Additional non-stop service between SLC and DCA (Washington National Airport)
wahoo!

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=960&sid=19401244
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  #4043  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2012, 6:45 AM
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Originally Posted by SLC Projects View Post
They already are raising the price of gas.
Who do you mean by "they"? The government? Nope. It's the market. The supply of gasoline is diminishing, while the demand for it continues to grow. Perhaps my high school economics teacher taught me wrong, but lower supply and higher demand result in higher prices.

Lower fuel prices caused by government subsidies "fuel" our gasoline usage and drain the resource, jacking up the prices once again. When people whine about high prices, politicians increase subsidies. It's a vicious cycle that needs to stop.

When you spend $3 a gallon at the pump, you're actually spending more than you think, because tax dollars are used to make it look cheap. I find it ironic that the people who want the government to stop intervening are the people who complain the loudest.

In many European nations, a $5 gallon of gas is cheap!
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  #4044  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2012, 4:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SLCdude View Post
Who do you mean by "they"? The government? Nope. It's the market. The supply of gasoline is diminishing, while the demand for it continues to grow. Perhaps my high school economics teacher taught me wrong, but lower supply and higher demand result in higher prices.

Lower fuel prices caused by government subsidies "fuel" our gasoline usage and drain the resource, jacking up the prices once again. When people whine about high prices, politicians increase subsidies. It's a vicious cycle that needs to stop.

When you spend $3 a gallon at the pump, you're actually spending more than you think, because tax dollars are used to make it look cheap. I find it ironic that the people who want the government to stop intervening are the people who complain the loudest.

In many European nations, a $5 gallon of gas is cheap!
The supply of gas is diminishing for one reason. Oil is controlled by a few people and the oil we have under our own continent isn't being used for anything, let alone the prodcution of gas. The oil companies control the supply and the federal government allow them to do so. The feds either need to mandate that either new sources of fuel, such as electric become the norm from car manufacturers or they need to allow the North American oil to be used in gasoline production.

FYI, We don't live in Europe!
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  #4045  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2012, 6:20 PM
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The supply of gas is diminishing for one reason. Oil is controlled by a few people and the oil we have under our own continent isn't being used for anything, let alone the prodcution of gas. The oil companies control the supply and the federal government allow them to do so. The feds either need to mandate that either new sources of fuel, such as electric become the norm from car manufacturers or they need to allow the North American oil to be used in gasoline production.

FYI, We don't live in Europe!
You hit the nail on the head. I keep hearing from people that Europe plays this and Europe pays that. And that should make me free better? Fact is everybody is getting screwed by greedy big oil ( they ) and people should have to spend $100 + just to fill up a tank of gas. Gas/oil really isnt worth that much.
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  #4046  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2012, 6:32 PM
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Speaking of Big oil and the auto industry. I record a series on the History Channel called Cities of the Underworld. There was recently one about L.A. and part of it talked about the LA subway building in downtown that is being converted into luxury lofts.

There has been discussions on this thread about the old trolley and rail systems being bought up by car and tire companies, some argued that it wasn't the case. Well in LA it is exactly the case, the privately operated subway/rail company started to struggle financially and sold pieces of there track and stations to private individuals and companies. The actually subway station, was purchased by an auto maker and a tire manufacturer, which in turn simply closed the subway because they owned the building and could do what they wanted.

LA is now spending billions on building a subway system, which they once had a very extensive one. Oil, cars, = big money greed.
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  #4047  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2012, 6:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Future Mayor View Post
The supply of gas is diminishing for one reason. Oil is controlled by a few people and the oil we have under our own continent isn't being used for anything, let alone the prodcution of gas. The oil companies control the supply and the federal government allow them to do so. The feds either need to mandate that either new sources of fuel, such as electric become the norm from car manufacturers or they need to allow the North American oil to be used in gasoline production.

FYI, We don't live in Europe!
Using American oil would be like putting a bandaid on a a gushing wound. I must also point out that much of our oil is actually used for production of a variety of petroleum products - including jet oil, heating oil and gasoline.

I believe you may be referring to our strategic oil reserve, which is stored at four sites in the Gulf of Mexico and you are correct - is not used for anything. I must point out though that it has a capacity of just over 700 million barrels, and at current levels of consumption in the United States this would only last between 32 and 38 days. It is, in the truest sense of the word, an emergency supply.

You may also be referring to our proven oil reserve, which refers to those reserves claimed (usually by oil companies) that have a 90% certainty of being able to be recovered. This amounts to an estimated 21 billion barrels in the United States, or just over a 2.5 year supply. While I'm not opposed to your suggestion to increase harvesting of our oil reserves to produce more gasoline (and I know a lot of people would attack me for that position), there really would be little benefit to US gas consumers....

Last year, for the first time ever, the United States actually exported more oil products than it imported for the first time in 62 years, despite near record gas prices at home. Why? Because of growing global demand at a near exponential rate - think exploding middle classes in China & India and then consider that the largest US automaker GM actually sold more cars & trucks in China last year than it did in the US. It is actually still more profitable for oil companies to sell the gasoline and other petroleum products produced with American oil abroad than it is to sell it at home.

In response to these realities, I agree with your assessment that we need a much larger push into mass production of alternative fuels and electric cars. We must realize, however, that automakers - while making baby steps to appease the mass public and media on this front - will not so easily or willingly make this much needed, massive push on their own. It will take an extensive amount of pressure to get them to do what they need to, and I believe the American public will not exert their great strength and apply this pressure as long as cheap gas is still available (and yes $4 per gallon is still considered cheap on the global market - we may not live in Europe, but we are still part of the global market). I sense that $5+ per gallon will be the point when the American public really begins to demand some change - one can only hope that they are demanding it in the form of advancing new technologies on a larger scale and not in demanding a return to cheap gas once again, because on the former demand we have the power and chance to make a real difference but on the latter demand we will face nothing but defeat.

I still believe we, as Americans, need to be focused on long-term solutions including alternative fuels, increased use of mass transit, and re-evaluating the way we live our lives and build our communities.
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Last edited by UTAZLoVer; Feb 29, 2012 at 7:20 PM.
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  #4048  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2012, 6:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SLC Projects View Post
You hit the nail on the head. I keep hearing from people that Europe plays this and Europe pays that. And that should make me free better? Fact is everybody is getting screwed by greedy big oil ( they ) and people should have to spend $100 + just to fill up a tank of gas. Gas/oil really isnt worth that much.
It is worth whatever people will pay for it, and the market has told us it is willing to pay a lot for its addiction.
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  #4049  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2012, 6:58 PM
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Oil, cars, = big money greed.
You are very right there, I will certainly agree.
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  #4050  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2012, 7:57 PM
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It is worth whatever people will pay for it, and the market has told us it is willing to pay a lot for its addiction.
Willing to pay or HAVE to pay? I bet if you were to ask 100 people if gasoline is worth $3/$4 per gallon 99.9% would say "Hell no". People pay because they have to.
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1. "Wells Fargo Building" 24-stories 422 FT 1998
2. "LDS Church Office Building" 28-stories 420 FT 1973
3. "111 South Main" 24-stories 387 FT 2016
4. "99 West" 30-stories 375 FT 2011
5. "Key Bank Tower" 27-stories 351 FT 1976

Last edited by SLC Projects; Feb 29, 2012 at 10:13 PM.
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  #4051  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2012, 8:30 PM
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The government should push hard to help lay the infrastructure for liquified natural gas for freight purposes. It's very doable and it would emancipate our costs of shipped goods from the volatility of the oil market.

This does not imply that they would help retrofit the majority of gas stations, but rather, they would retrofit the giant stops for big freight companies and strategic locations.

More information:
http://ictc.gladstein.org/aboutictc.html
http://energynow.com/video/2011/08/2...ation-corridor

Last edited by s.p.hansen; Feb 29, 2012 at 8:47 PM.
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  #4052  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2012, 8:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SLC Projects View Post
Willing to pay or HAVE to pay?
This same argument goes with ANY industry. For example, I hate how airline prices are going up, yet the big wigs at the industry roll in their cash, and the big wigs at the airport spend billions to make a new one (no I am not arguing against the new airport, just using it as an example).

If you want to have the market regulate it, then it is what it is. If you want to have government regulate the price, then a socialistic/communistic view would be more in line.

The real problem that we have is we have become WAY to reliant upon our gas fueled cars. Because there is no direct competition, the price will always go up and will continue to do so until people turn to another option that is cheaper. (Also why airlines can keep going up because to travel great distances that is our only option with regard to time).
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  #4053  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2012, 8:51 PM
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Originally Posted by UTAZLoVer View Post
I sense that $5+ per gallon will be the point when the American public really begins to demand some change - one can only hope that they are demanding it in the form of advancing new technologies on a larger scale and not in demanding a return to cheap gas once again, because on the former demand we have the power and chance to make a real difference but on the latter demand we will face nothing but defeat.

I still believe we, as Americans, need to be focused on long-term solutions including alternative fuels, increased use of mass transit, and re-evaluating the way we live our lives and build our communities.
Precisely!
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  #4054  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2012, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by SLCdude View Post
Who do you mean by "they"?
"They" as in the few powerful greedy people who run big oil. not the government, even tho they are lazy and do nothing about it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SLCdude View Post
It's the market. The supply of gasoline is diminishing, while the demand for it continues to grow. Perhaps my high school economics teacher taught me wrong, but lower supply and higher demand result in higher prices.
Those bastards ( Big Oil ) did that on purpose. When Gasoline dropped to about 1.15 per gallon a few years back greedy big oil started shutting down a lot of their oil refineries just so they could get the demand back up and hence get the price of oil back up to OVER $100 per barrel. Because heavens forbid we should give those hard working lower class families any kind of break and that making billions and billions somehow isn't enough.

Believe me, if I had the choice I would sell my car and show big oil my middle finger.
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1. "Wells Fargo Building" 24-stories 422 FT 1998
2. "LDS Church Office Building" 28-stories 420 FT 1973
3. "111 South Main" 24-stories 387 FT 2016
4. "99 West" 30-stories 375 FT 2011
5. "Key Bank Tower" 27-stories 351 FT 1976
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  #4055  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2012, 10:20 PM
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That and the fact that the government has limited the amount of profits the oil companies can make. I believe they're limited to 8%, which means at a $1.15 per gallon they're making 9 cents profit. But at $3.00 they're making 24 cents. Hence the record profits. What's sad is that here in Utah, total tax paid is 42.5 cents per gallon, which means the government makes more off gas than the oil companies do. Sad sad sad.
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  #4056  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2012, 10:22 PM
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That and the fact that the government has limited the amount of profits the oil companies can make. I believe they're limited to 8%, which means at a $1.15 per gallon they're making 9 cents profit. But at $3.00 they're making 24 cents. Hence the record profits. What's sad is that here in Utah, total tax paid is 42.5 cents per gallon, which means the government makes more off gas than the oil companies do. Sad sad sad.

Yes I know, having money for freeways and highways is such a drag.
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  #4057  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2012, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SLC Projects View Post
"They" as in the few powerful greedy people who run big oil. not the government, even tho they are lazy and do nothing about it.




Those bastards ( Big Oil ) did that on purpose. When Gasoline dropped to about 1.15 per gallon a few years back greedy big oil started shutting down a lot of their oil refineries just so they could get the demand back up and hence get the price of oil back up to OVER $100 per barrel. Because heavens forbid we should give those hard working lower class families any kind of break and that making billions and billions somehow isn't enough.

Believe me, if I had the choice I would sell my car and show big oil my middle finger.

Keep in mind that it isn't profitable for Oil companies to invest in more drilling when prices stay low. As prices raise so does the viability of new drilling operations.

Within a couple of years the US will again be producing about as much domestic oil as we did during our peak in the 70's. This is largely because of prices stabilizing higher than $70 per barrel.

The future is going to be liquified natural gas for freight and better electric car technology for personal vehicles. The market and regulators will find a way to sustain our society (commutes and sprawl) as it has been configured thus far.
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  #4058  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2012, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by UTAZLoVer View Post
If that is something that will be difficult for certain people to afford, it would be prudent for them to assess where their money currently goes and make cuts where they can to prepare or a lot of people are going to be caught off guard. That's just where things are going, and oddly enough it really has very little to do with politics in this country and mostly to do with the free market.

Make cuts? You really have the nerve to say that? Sure they can go live off of powder milk and top ramen for dinner each night. Or how about these people go buy dog food then if that helps them cut back. How's that for cutting back? It's easy for you to say........"well they can cut back". But try cutting back while making minimum wage. I feel really sorry for those people who have to make that hard choice..........Fill up or buy food for the week. Some families can only cut back so much before they have to cut back on the basic.
But as long as big oil sits on a pile of money while those poor minimum wage families go hungry just so they still have a way to get to and from work then I guess that's alright then.

Shameful.
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1. "Wells Fargo Building" 24-stories 422 FT 1998
2. "LDS Church Office Building" 28-stories 420 FT 1973
3. "111 South Main" 24-stories 387 FT 2016
4. "99 West" 30-stories 375 FT 2011
5. "Key Bank Tower" 27-stories 351 FT 1976
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  #4059  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2012, 10:30 PM
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If the money was actually set aside for highways I wouldn't be complaining. But all tax revenue goes into one pot and congress divvies it out. This is why Social Secrurity is in the red, and the postal service. We can thank the congress from the 60's for this. Somehow they got the notion that the government can operate in the black, so they started destroying things. Not much has changed.

I'm not an oil apologist, but this is what happens: the government leases land to oil companies, then taxes the gas they produce, then taxes the profits they make at 35%. Now. . . If you had to lease your office from the government, and every time you produced something the government made sure they made more money off of it than you did, and on top of that, they took 35% of what profits you did make. . . Would you, by that time, have your customers' best interests at heart, or your own?
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  #4060  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2012, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Deek1978 View Post
If the money was actually set aside for highways I wouldn't be complaining. But all tax revenue goes into one pot and congress divvies it out. This is why Social Secrurity is in the red, and the postal service. We can thank the congress from the 60's for this. Somehow they got the notion that the government can operate in the black, so they started destroying things. Not much has changed.

I'm not an oil apologist, but this is what happens: the government leases land to oil companies, then taxes the gas they produce, then taxes the profits they make at 35%. Now. . . If you had to lease your office from the government, and every time you produced something the government made sure they made more money off of it than you did, and on top of that, they took 35% of what profits you did make. . . Would you, by that time, have your customers' best interests at heart, or your own?

If you would like to post your references for this, I would love to read them.

Please give me links showing me how my gas taxes get lost the same way my Social Security does.
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