OPH wants to ban marijuana in or near multi-unit residences

[FutureWickedCity]

I just heard of Ottawa Public Health's (OPH) recommendations to the Province with regards to banning the smoking OR vaping of marijuana inside, on the balcony, or "nearby" multi-unit residences. I realize this is a divisive issue and I believe that health concerns should be carefully balanced with realistic logic and the right of people to engage in a soon-to-be legal recreational activity.

Personally, I think that smoking inside should be banned. That is a no-brainer. Vaping is another matter. If good scientific evidence can be provided that any second hand byproduct of vaping causes adverse health effects to people not even in the vicinity of the usage, then I will agree with OPH. With regards to the balcony issue, OK I can't deny that some of the smoke might enter other peoples' units via the window, or that burning embers are a fire concern. But let's also be realistic that marijuana is not going away, in fact, it will be more available than ever, and it will have to be used somewhere! Are people expected to drive out to the country for a smoke? Driving and smoking is also banned so that's out. Banning smoking "nearby" a multi-unit residence would effectively ban it from the entire city core. And kicking tens of thousands of residents out of their homes does not seem logical either.

One last comment: A 14 year old girl just died from drinking an alcohol energy drink called FUK’D UP which is geared towards kids. And there are places in the city where people can now shoot up without fear. Let's put things in perspective.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by FutureWickedCity

I just heard of Ottawa Public Health's (OPH) recommendations to the Province with regards to banning the smoking OR vaping of marijuana inside, on the balcony, or "nearby" multi-unit residences. I realize this is a divisive issue and I believe that health concerns should be carefully balanced with realistic logic and the right of people to engage in a soon-to-be legal recreational activity.

Personally, I think that smoking inside should be banned. That is a no-brainer. Vaping is another matter. If good scientific evidence can be provided that any second hand byproduct of vaping causes adverse health effects to people not even in the vicinity of the usage, then I will agree with OPH. With regards to the balcony issue, OK I can't deny that some of the smoke might enter other peoples' units via the window, or that burning embers are a fire concern. But let's also be realistic that marijuana is not going away, in fact, it will be more available than ever, and it will have to be used somewhere! Are people expected to drive out to the country for a smoke? Driving and smoking is also banned so that's out. Banning smoking "nearby" a multi-unit residence would effectively ban it from the entire city core. And kicking tens of thousands of residents out of their homes does not seem logical either.

One last comment: A 14 year old girl just died from drinking an alcohol energy drink called FUK’D UP which is geared towards kids. And there are places in the city where people can now shoot up without fear. Let's put things in perspective.

Perspective: Those last things don't smell. Pot smoke STINKS!!

[Hybrid247]

All I'm going to say is smoking laws should be consistent across the board. Double standards aren't going to fly. It would be pretty hypocritical to ban marijuana smoke in multi-unit residences in the name of health while permitting tobacco smoke.

[FutureWickedCity]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Perspective: Those last things don't smell. Pot smoke STINKS!!

Dogs, fish cooking and perfumes/colognes also stink. Just sayin

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by FutureWickedCity

Dogs, fish cooking and perfumes/colognes also stink. Just sayin

I agree with you 100% on cooking (not just fish) as the smells can waft from one unit to another. It is hard to regulate that though as most people cook (or at lest eat cooked food). It is also not usually a health hazard (barring anaphylactic allergies).

As for dogs and perfumes/colognes, the smell is quite localized. It can certainly be an issue when sharing a confined space, but I have never heard of it wafting from one unit to another. Regardless, we are starting to see more regulations regarding perfumes/colognes.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by FutureWickedCity

Vaping is another matter. If good scientific evidence can be provided that any second hand byproduct of vaping causes adverse health effects to people not even in the vicinity of the usage, then I will agree with OPH.

I have not seen any good, scientific evidence that second hand byproducts of vaping are harmless either. We don't have a presumption of innocence with regards to health and safety. Instead, it needs to be proven safe. I am sure the pharmaceutical companies would love to be able to sell any drug without needing to prove that it is safe and instead wait for the government to prove that it is dangerous before "taking it off the shelf."

[1overcosc]

One issue.

The province has made it illegal to consume non-medical cannabis outdoors or in any commercial or institutional buildings.

Ottawa will not permit vaping lounges on its territory.

Most leases ban smoking.

If this proposal by OPH to ban goes through, a renter without a car will literally have nowhere to smoke weed. Every possible place will be illegal.

A legal product will effectively remain illegal for a portion of the population.

We need to step back from banning cannabis everywhere and realize that we're defeating the whole point of legalization with these overly harsh rules.

[GlassCity]

Don't mean to intrude on an Ontario thread, but we have a similar situation in Manitoba that I don't know how it can be remedied. Smoking weed will be illegal in all public spaces, so you have to do it at home. If you live in an apartment and it's non-smoking, which most are, and you don't have a balcony, what are you supposed to do then? What's the point of legalizing a substance if the regulations around its consumption will effectively keep it illegal for a large segment of the population?

I get that it's a difficult balancing act. While you can smoke tobacco outside under certain restrictions, weed's different because it's intoxicating. After all, we can't drink outside either. But there needs to be some level of reason about this.

I guess we'll see once it's actually legalized, cause I'm still not sure what products will be legal and not, like edibles or vapes. But it's looking messy so far.

[YOWflier]

Cannabis can be consumed in ways other than by smoking. So that's an option.

As an aside, I would encourage all landlords to put specific verbiage in new leases prohibiting not only smoking of any type, but also cultivation of cannabis. This would go in section 15/attachment of the new standard Ontario lease agreement.

Some other useful information to support the discussion:

Originally Posted by New Standard Ontario Lease Agreement

S. Smoking (Part V of the Act)
The Act does not discuss smoking in a rental unit. The landlord and tenant can use Section 10 of this lease to agree to either
allow or prohibit smoking in the unit, and/or on the landlord’s property.
Even if the lease doesn’t prohibit smoking, the landlord may apply to the Landlord and Tenant Board to end the tenancy if the
smoking:
• substantially interferes with reasonable enjoyment of the landlord or other tenants,
• causes undue damage,
• impairs safety, or
• substantially interferes with another lawful right, privilege or interest of the landlord.
If the tenant believes that other people smoking in their building affects their health or safety, contravenes maintenance
standards, or substantially interferes with their reasonable enjoyment of the rental unit, they should discuss it with their landlord
before contacting the Landlord and Tenant Board.

Originally Posted by New Standard Ontario Lease Agreement

T. Smoke and Carbon Monoxide Alarms
The landlord must provide the rental unit with working smoke alarms and, where applicable, carbon monoxide alarms.
The landlord is responsible for keeping smoke and carbon monoxide alarms in working condition, which includes replacing the
batteries. The tenant must not disconnect or tamper with any smoke or carbon monoxide alarm and must notify the landlord
immediately of any alarms not working properly.

[1overcosc]

Edibles solve the smoking problem but because dosage is much harder to control they can be dangerous.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Edibles solve the smoking problem but because dosage is much harder to control they can be dangerous.

Except from what I've read (for example, http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...a-19-1.4433640) edibles won't initially be legal.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The province has made it illegal to consume non-medical cannabis outdoors or in any commercial or institutional buildings.

According to https://www.ontario.ca/page/cannabis-legalization, the exact wording is:

Under the new rules, you will:

• only be permitted to use recreational cannabis in a private residence
• not be allowed to use recreational cannabis in:
  • any public place
  • workplaces
  • motorized vehicles

Even though I am not a big fan of recreational cannabis, I think prohibiting its use in any public place goes a bit too far. Certainly we want to prohibit it's use in or near playgrounds, school-grounds, daycare centres and other places children will commonly be expected. I would also suggest it not be consumed in "crowded" areas (the definition of crowded would need to be defined). OTOH, I don't see the issue of having it consumed in an empty, open space.

Making the regulations too strict will encourage people to break the law and then consume it in places we don't want it consumed the most. In short, pick your battles.

[acottawa]

Isn't it like anything else a potential tenant would factor into renting decisions? (pet-friendliness, gym, pool, parking, transit, location) If somebody wants to smoke pot they will prioritize a location suitable for that.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

One issue.

The province has made it illegal to consume non-medical cannabis outdoors or in any commercial or institutional buildings.

Ottawa will not permit vaping lounges on its territory.

Most leases ban smoking.

If this proposal by OPH to ban goes through, a renter without a car will literally have nowhere to smoke weed. Every possible place will be illegal.

A legal product will effectively remain illegal for a portion of the population.

We need to step back from banning cannabis everywhere and realize that we're defeating the whole point of legalization with these overly harsh rules.

This is great! I don't want to have to pick a fight about who's smoking what, who's downwind of who, and what directions the wind is blowing, every time I go to a big empty space to exercise & get some fresh air.

If there can be indoor spaces specifically built to contain pot smoke within that space, that are isolated in industrial areas -- purpose-built hotboxes away from places where most people frequent & away from natural "outdoorsy" areas, that could be reasonable.

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by Buggys

This is great! I don't want to have to pick a fight about who's smoking what, who's downwind of who, and what directions the wind is blowing, every time I go to a big empty space to exercise & get some fresh air.

If there can be indoor spaces specifically built to contain pot smoke within that space, that are isolated in industrial areas -- purpose-built hotboxes away from places where most people frequent & away from natural "outdoorsy" areas, that could be reasonable.

You mean, places people need to drive to? Sure, that will fly