Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[esquire]

Originally Posted by osmo

CFL you would think would embrace the horseshoe configuration for this reason you stated.

The horseshoe configuration is optimal for the CFL. The reality is that the THF style old school two grandstand configuration is probably the best in terms of reflecting where fans want to sit, but having two open ends is atmosphere deadening to some degree so you need to provide at least some endzone seating. Permanent seats in one endzone accomplishes that while leaving room for temporary seating at the other end.

Only NMS comes close to that ideal but in my opinion they would have been better off moving the upper tier endzone seats to the sidelines instead. IGF has the ideal sized endzone seating area but the problem is that there's two of them instead of just one.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

Oh God no! Tim Horton's Field is an embarrassment, a stadium built for a different time, and something that simply should never have existed.

Please!

Inside the CFL: Two Hamilton traditions
Ted Michaels Hamilton, ON (Sports Network) canada.com July 16, 2013

"We received significant feedback from our fans during the stadium design and programming phases, through an extensive survey program," Matt Afinec, Senior Vice President, New Stadium Development, told Inside the CFL. "The common theme was unanimous. Tiger-Cats fans wanted the stadium to include features that enhance their live viewing experience, including food and beverage access and quality, easier washroom access, technology which includes a videoboard, LCD TVs in concourses, modern sound and lighting systems and so on, while at the same time maintaining the best sightlines for CFL football anywhere in Canada."

Plans for a brand new stadium don't happen overnight. Afinec noted that Tim Hortons Field will be unique to Hamilton, but at the same time will be loosely modeled on other stadiums.

"We visited a number of stadiums and arenas across North America to gather best practices in new venues. This includes facilities that were larger in capacity and had far greater construction budgets relative to what was going to be delivered in Hamilton. However, we felt that great ideas rooted in enhancing the live viewing experience were transferable and could be customized to the needs of our local market, venue and construction budget. For example, we ultimately implemented the principle of two concepts from Cowboys Stadium in Arlington, Texas. The end zone patio at Tim Hortons Field is comparable in theme to the common areas in the end zones at Cowboys Stadium."

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Haha, you obviously chose the worst pic of THF. The one below is a more inspiring pic. I don't mind THF at all. They saved a whole bunch of cash by not installing a fancy roof

[FrankieFlowerpot]

One of the losing consortiums who were bidding to build THF did propose endzone seats for one end

[FFX-ME]

I'm sure the viewing experience is great. My complaints were simply from an architectural standpoint. It is an eyesore. I value beauty in our buildings, particularly the large ones.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by osmo

CFL you would think would embrace the horseshoe configuration for this reason you stated.

You mean like this

[FFX-ME]

Originally Posted by elly63

So you're showing the opposite side of the stadium. Doesn't change the fact that the other is simply ugly. I'm not a fan of this size either anyway. Why is the second tied of seating not the same width as the 100 level? Obviously since the seating is better at the 100 level but they could have truncated it in a better way. Which is what Ottawa has done for instance.

[Hackslack]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

One of the losing consortiums who were bidding to build THF did propose endzone seats for one end

I like seeing lots of people up on the party deck as opposed to empty end zone seats. It's definitely a good use of space rather than it being empty. Same at McMahon in Calgary, these past couple of years on the north end infringement of the Olympic Volunteer Center building there is patio area that is typically full with people.

They need to turn the CFL game experience into more of a party event anyway, much like what I see on TV at MLS soccer games, as opposed to simply a sporting event.

[elly63]

Remember this? Wasn't it the proposed Saskatoon blue skies proposal?

[FFX-ME]

^That looks nice! I would prefer less endzone seating though. Looks like a smaller version of the University of Michigan stadium.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

One of the losing consortiums who were bidding to build THF did propose endzone seats for one end

That is a far superior configuration compared to what was ultimately built.

West side stands that stretch into the end zones, south side end zone seating to close in the stadium a bit, elevated south end plaza, substantial east upper deck... this would have been a lot better.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

They need to turn the CFL game experience into more of a party event anyway, much like what I see on TV at MLS soccer games, as opposed to simply a sporting event.

That's what they're doing, and speaking of horseshoe designs, remember this?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by JHikka

The stadium is what's holding Halifax back - Moncton is held back due to size, as its stadium would simply have to be renovated and expanded to be suitable if the metro were large enough.

It is a little weird though how on the one hand people talk about how Halifax's hurdle is to build a $120-300M stadium, but Moncton's $20-30M stadium is often assumed to be approximately ready to go with some minor alterations. I think if you accept that Moncton has something resembling a CFL-ready stadium then you also have to accept that something modest in Halifax would be sufficient. Maybe a $70M stadium. That was almost built there a couple years ago. The city's capital budget is in the $200M range annually. $100M is a medium-sized project of the type that is built every couple of years, not something for which the stars need to align. A $500M-1B project in Halifax is large in local terms and really does require a lot of coordination (but would not necessarily in a city like Toronto).

If you say that a new CFL team needs a $150M stadium then you are arguing that Moncton's existing stadium does not constitute a significant advantage. In fact the current stadium may almost not be worth converting since it has a track.

Firstly, nowhere in Atlantic Canada can compete with Metro Halifax's growth, let's just get that out of the way.

I'm used to people freaking out on here if you admit that Halifax isn't just one of many similar cities in Atlantic Canada, so I try to avoid pointing it out. The reality is it's becoming or has already become an economic capital for the region similar to what's happened in a bunch of other parts of Canada. The fact that Moncton is now #2 in the Maritimes is partly a consequence of that. Debating where to put a CFL team in the Maritimes isn't that far off from debating where to put one in Ontario or Quebec. Maybe there is a thread somewhere where people argue that NHL teams should move to Drummondville or Hamilton.

Maybe this will be interpreted as a shameless cheerleader post but it's based on data. If Halifax were 1.5x the size of the next-biggest city instead of 3x I'd have a different opinion.

[elly63]

Until the roof was deemed too expensive (an extra 100 million) this is what they were looking at for Regina (before the concept design - bottom)

At the time, Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall, on the TSN Grey Cup coverage, talked about how they were looking at something innovative and mentioned this stadium (Stockholmsarenan) at a cost of 350 million.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by someone123

It is a little weird though how on the one hand people talk about Halifax's hurdle is to build a $120-300M stadium, but Moncton's $20-30M stadium is often assumed to be approximately ready to go with some minor alterations.

FWIW former Commish Cohon said it would take 100 million to get it up to standards.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by someone123

It is a little weird though how on the one hand people talk about Halifax's hurdle is to build a $120-300M stadium, but Moncton's $20-30M stadium is often assumed to be approximately ready to go with some minor alterations.

Minor in this sense would still be ~$75M anyway, i'd assume. Moncton already at least has the land and skeleton for a stadium potentially suitable for a team, even if the surrounding metropolitan area is not. The new Downtown Arena is $100M.

Originally Posted by someone123

I think if you accept that Moncton has something resembling a CFL-ready stadium then you also have to accept that something modest in Halifax would be sufficient.

Moncton's stadium isn't CFL-ready - it has a base to be CFL-ready.

I keep saying that a smaller, modest 20K stadium would work for Halifax. Requiring 24K is a bit too much, IMO. 24K is an average attendance in the CFL and Halifax would be the smallest market by a fair margin.

Originally Posted by someone123

Maybe a $70M stadium. That was almost built there a couple years ago. The city's capital budget is in the $200M range annually. $100M is a medium-sized project of the type that is built every couple of years, not something for which the stars need to align.

I think it's feasible as long as it stays around $100M. Anything more gets to be a bit too much. Anything north of that makes me question government or private interests ability to fund it.

Originally Posted by someone123

I'm used to people freaking out on here if you admit that Halifax isn't just one of many similar cities in Atlantic Canada, so I try to avoid pointing it out.

It's the Toronto of the Maritimes and it's not even particularly close. Anyone trying to lift any other city in the region to Halifax's standard is cheerleading.

[elly63]

Blast from the past! What happens when stadiums aren't completed on time.

• Video Link

[elly63]

I give Frankie credit for uncovering this years ago. Hamilton was considering a design similar to Apogee Stadium (University of North Texas cap 30,850/cost $78 Million US - 2011)

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

I'm sure the viewing experience is great. My complaints were simply from an architectural standpoint. It is an eyesore. I value beauty in our buildings, particularly the large ones.

I have season's tickets there, and it really is great. I'm way up in the nosebleeds and never feel like I don't havea good view. Sure I could be more central but with cheap seats I have more money for beer

"Architecturally"... It definitely ins't an eyesore, that's being over dramatic. One thing it does have going for it, is that IS in a residential area- it doesn't have to be BC Place to stand out. It's big, imposing, and new, compared to it's surroundings. At ground level you can't really look at the whole thing at once anyway. I still love driving past it.

There's also tons of room to add onto if needed. I'm quite sure the first concourse on either side is at the same elevation- a quick check on the ticket buyer shows 25 rows per side- meaning they could easily build a wraparound. Right now they're just selling out. So right now every person who wants to, has great seats along the sidelines. OR can go to one of the two party patio areas. One day, if they need to, they can expand on that, and fill in the spaces.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

Lol, setting the bar low.

Other redeeming qualities:
-It has seats, many NCAA stadiums do not
-It has a team, some nice stadiums do not (*couch* Olympic Stadium *cough*)
-It has clean water, some third world stadiums do not
...

I hate it, sorry.

it sucks too because this side isnt bad at all



If they would have done something a little bit better on the other side with something to tie the 2 together in the endzones it could be something special