HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #81  
Old Posted May 26, 2015, 4:41 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec
Posts: 42,021
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Interesting. Never heard that before but it makes sense.

It works in Kingston too, the wind direction is a bit funny here because of the lake, and the old north end is downwind from the rest of the city.

It doesn't really work in Ottawa though. Traditionally Sandy Hill, just east of downtown, was a wealthy public servant neighbourhood, while Lebreton Flats, just west of downtown, was a very working class area.
Yeah, obviously, that "rule" doesn't work 100.000% of the time, as there are a bunch of other factors in play (in TO's case, as was pointed out, presence of swampland in a given direction, etc.) but generally, in NE North America, it does.
(See, my total guess about Cleveland proved correct. )

Historically, dense city cores have always been a filthy, stinky place, so you ideally didn't want to be downwind/downriver from them. Without even looking it up, it's guaranteed that an identical residential riverfront property on the Thames/Seine was significantly more desirable if located just before medieval London/Paris than just after it. The port, docks are also (nearly always) going to be on the downriver side.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #82  
Old Posted May 26, 2015, 4:45 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec
Posts: 42,021
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
... probably because the west escaped most of the urban renewal mistakes that blight the east.
I wonder why it was so. Do you (or anyone else) happen to know?

Normally, for those urban renewal "experiments", poorer neighborhoods were chosen in the first place...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #83  
Old Posted May 26, 2015, 6:15 PM
MonkeyRonin's Avatar
MonkeyRonin MonkeyRonin is offline
¥ ¥ ¥
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 9,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
I wonder why it was so. Do you (or anyone else) happen to know?

Normally, for those urban renewal "experiments", poorer neighborhoods were chosen in the first place...

I don't just mean urban renewal in the sense of government-led "slum clearance" to build public housing projects (which also happened in the west end); there were more of the private sector towers-in-park developments that went up on the east side of downtown that didn't in the west. My guess is that with the academic & hippie presence attached to the university, there were more neighbourhood activist groups to fight development.
__________________
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #84  
Old Posted May 26, 2015, 6:19 PM
rousseau's Avatar
rousseau rousseau is offline
Registered Drug User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 8,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
I don't just mean urban renewal in the sense of government-led "slum clearance" to build public housing projects (which also happened in the west end); there were more of the private sector towers-in-park developments that went up on the east side of downtown that didn't in the west. My guess is that with the academic & hippie presence attached to the university, there were more neighbourhood activist groups to fight development.
Or, in two words: Jane Jacobs.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #85  
Old Posted May 26, 2015, 6:35 PM
niwell's Avatar
niwell niwell is offline
sick transit, gloria
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Roncesvalles, Toronto
Posts: 11,025
Many of the private tower in the park developments predate Jane Jacobs arrival in Toronto. I'm sure there are a number of reasons, but many of these developments occurred in parts of the city (both east and west-end) that had older large-lot mansion style developments. By the post-war era these areas were no longer as fashionable and many of the buildings would have been subdivided and in fallen into disrepair. This coincided with street widening as well, such as Jarvis. The large lots made land consolidation easier, and preservation was not en vogue at the time. Outside of the east end areas that saw this type of development were St. George St in the Annex and Jameson in Parkdale. Both areas with large lots and widened streets.

The fate of the resulting towers varied along with the fate of the neighbourhood. Many in the Annex and Church / Wellesley area are fashionable, or at least decent. Parkdale, not so much.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #86  
Old Posted May 26, 2015, 6:55 PM
hipster duck's Avatar
hipster duck hipster duck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by niwell View Post
Many of the private tower in the park developments predate Jane Jacobs arrival in Toronto. I'm sure there are a number of reasons, but many of these developments occurred in parts of the city (both east and west-end) that had older large-lot mansion style developments. By the post-war era these areas were no longer as fashionable and many of the buildings would have been subdivided and in fallen into disrepair. This coincided with street widening as well, such as Jarvis. The large lots made land consolidation easier, and preservation was not en vogue at the time. Outside of the east end areas that saw this type of development were St. George St in the Annex and Jameson in Parkdale. Both areas with large lots and widened streets.

The fate of the resulting towers varied along with the fate of the neighbourhood. Many in the Annex and Church / Wellesley area are fashionable, or at least decent. Parkdale, not so much.
That is probably the best explanation I have ever heard for this. I would have never thought about the large lot consolidation theory, but it makes perfect sense.

It also explains why the mansions along St. George were torn down to build the few postwar apartment "towers" that exist on the west side.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #87  
Old Posted May 26, 2015, 8:47 PM
flar's Avatar
flar flar is offline
..........
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 15,170
Most of Hamilton's commie blocks are in the Durand, where old Victorian mansions once stood.

They could have put one in the front yard too

__________________
RECENT PHOTOS:
TORONTOSAN FRANCISCO ROCHESTER, NYHAMILTONGODERICH, ON WHEATLEY, ONCOBOURG, ONLAS VEGASLOS ANGELES
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #88  
Old Posted May 26, 2015, 9:17 PM
le calmar's Avatar
le calmar le calmar is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 5,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Yeah, obviously, that "rule" doesn't work 100.000% of the time, as there are a bunch of other factors in play (in TO's case, as was pointed out, presence of swampland in a given direction, etc.) but generally, in NE North America, it does.
(See, my total guess about Cleveland proved correct. )

Historically, dense city cores have always been a filthy, stinky place, so you ideally didn't want to be downwind/downriver from them. Without even looking it up, it's guaranteed that an identical residential riverfront property on the Thames/Seine was significantly more desirable if located just before medieval London/Paris than just after it. The port, docks are also (nearly always) going to be on the downriver side.
Paris wealthiest neighbourhoods are located West of Paris, so "after" the city. I heard the same argument over there tough, the dominant winds come from the West, which is why the poorer neighbourhoods/suburbs are located on the East side. They could not avoid both the polluted air and water there it seems due to geographical reasons.

Last edited by le calmar; May 26, 2015 at 10:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #89  
Old Posted May 26, 2015, 10:11 PM
matthew6 matthew6 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 577
I think there is more of a north/south divide in Montreal - at least from a historical perspective. Poor/working class neighborhoods in the south - St Henri , Pt St Charles, Verdun... Rich neighborhoods in the north - Westmount, Outremont, the mansions on Sherbrooke st.....

A neighborhood I haven't noticed mentioned yet is Villeray. Basically the area just east of Jarry park. A real gem in my opinion. Sort of like a Mile End light, slightly newer but more quiet.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #90  
Old Posted May 27, 2015, 1:54 AM
MolsonExport's Avatar
MolsonExport MolsonExport is offline
The Vomit Bag.
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Otisburgh
Posts: 44,716
Cote des Neiges, Montreal-Nord, Ahuntsic, Park-ex...northern parts of Montreal, none too wealthy.
__________________
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."-President Lyndon B. Johnson Donald Trump is a poor man's idea of a rich man, a weak man's idea of a strong man, and a stupid man's idea of a smart man. Am I an Asseau?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #91  
Old Posted May 27, 2015, 2:09 AM
TorontoDrew's Avatar
TorontoDrew TorontoDrew is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9,775
Quote:
Originally Posted by flar View Post
Most of Hamilton's commie blocks are in the Durand, where old Victorian mansions once stood.

They could have put one in the front yard too


Ha my GF lived in that place up until February. She grew up in Vancouver lived in Calgary for half her life and now lives in the Hammer. For some reason she loves it that's why it's growing on me as well.

Last edited by TorontoDrew; May 27, 2015 at 2:19 AM. Reason: deleted "I'm"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #92  
Old Posted May 27, 2015, 3:15 AM
Denscity Denscity is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Within the Cordillera
Posts: 12,493
This thread is pure east and every poster is from Eastern Canada. It's worse than the Alberta Election thread being in the national section which I didn't agree with either. Just put this thread in the appropriate regional section and every poster can continue to follow it.
__________________
Castlegar BC: SSP's hottest city (43.9C)
Lytton BC: Canada’s hottest city (49.6C)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #93  
Old Posted May 27, 2015, 3:27 AM
MolsonExport's Avatar
MolsonExport MolsonExport is offline
The Vomit Bag.
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Otisburgh
Posts: 44,716
I know, 60 percent of the population only. The audacity of us Easterners. And I fully agreed with the Alberta election thread being in the Canada forum. National news, as far as I saw it.
__________________
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."-President Lyndon B. Johnson Donald Trump is a poor man's idea of a rich man, a weak man's idea of a strong man, and a stupid man's idea of a smart man. Am I an Asseau?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #94  
Old Posted May 27, 2015, 3:35 AM
MexiQuebecois's Avatar
MexiQuebecois MexiQuebecois is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Monkland Village, Montréal, Québec
Posts: 719
Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
I know, 60 percent of the population only. The audacity of us Easterners. And I fully agreed with the Alberta election thread being in the Canada forum. National news, as far as I saw it.
Before somebody comes in and tell you that it's actually 58.9786% of the population due to the incredible and superior growth of the West.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #95  
Old Posted May 27, 2015, 3:56 AM
rousseau's Avatar
rousseau rousseau is offline
Registered Drug User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 8,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denscity View Post
This thread is pure east and every poster is from Eastern Canada. It's worse than the Alberta Election thread being in the national section which I didn't agree with either. Just put this thread in the appropriate regional section and every poster can continue to follow it.
Or, better still, you stop whining about the fact that Montreal is a fantastic city that people throughout the country love, and stop looking at this thread. That way people can continue to discuss the great urban aspects of arguably Canada's greatest urban city, on, you know, a freakin' urban affairs website, and as a bonus, we don't have to listen to you whine.

Win-win all around.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #96  
Old Posted May 27, 2015, 4:21 AM
lio45 lio45 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec
Posts: 42,021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denscity View Post
This thread is pure east and every poster is from Eastern Canada.
Not even true. hipster duck (who posted on this page) is from Vancouver. someone123 (who posted on last page) is from Vancouver. ue (who posted on last page) is from Edmonton. (I didn't bother to go back further into the previous 3.5 pages, but I'm sure we'd find even more if we did.)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #97  
Old Posted May 27, 2015, 9:23 AM
matthew6 matthew6 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 577
Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
Cote des Neiges, Montreal-Nord, Ahuntsic, Park-ex...northern parts of Montreal, none too wealthy.
I said historically. All those areas are new(ish)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #98  
Old Posted May 27, 2015, 12:53 PM
niwell's Avatar
niwell niwell is offline
sick transit, gloria
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Roncesvalles, Toronto
Posts: 11,025
I was glad the Alberta election thread was on the main page, just like I'm glad this one is. I don't want to have to wade through various regional subforums to find things I consider of national interest.

It would be bit boring if we were only allowed to have regional perspectives on a given issue wouldn't it?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #99  
Old Posted May 27, 2015, 1:00 PM
Martin Mtl's Avatar
Martin Mtl Martin Mtl is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denscity View Post
This thread is pure east and every poster is from Eastern Canada. It's worse than the Alberta Election thread being in the national section which I didn't agree with either. Just put this thread in the appropriate regional section and every poster can continue to follow it.
Don't click on the thread. Problem solved.
Reply With Quote
     
     
End
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:00 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.