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  #21  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2011, 8:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
It's just tribalist BS -- people want a group of "others" to blame.

The guilty ones are the ones who caused damage. Even if they are all from Surrey, at the end of the day it doesn't matter.
Thank you!

I honestly dont see how this behaviour is any different than if we started a thread title "blame Indo Canadians?" or "Blame lower income families?" etc... and then have someone post anecdotal bs showing their point. On the Canada section I actually did see a racist comment blaming Indo and White Canadians and saying there were almost no Asians, well, from the pics I have seen that is a load of bs as well.

Bottom line is this, Vancouver population is under 700 000 people in a metro approaching 2.5 million, downtown Vancouver is under 200 000 in a metro approaching 2.5 million, therefore given that this was a big regional event hosted in the downtown core, and that the vast majority of our population, especially the youth population, does not live downtown, then it comes as no surprise that the majority are not from downtown.

The same way I am willing to bet that if Maple Ridge were to host a giant rock concert in our downtown for the region, and then there was a big riot, the majority of those rioters would not be from Maple Ridge, and then we could blame the rest of the metro...
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  #22  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2011, 4:25 PM
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It was people from all over the Lower Mainland, I am sure, with perhaps even some out-of-towners. Useless to blame a group or a region ... even if the photos taken may or may not be slightly indicative.
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2011, 4:28 PM
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We must find a final solution to the Surrey problem.

"Kill the Surrey in the child".
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2011, 5:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Rusty Gull View Post
I do not think it's fair to "blame Surrey". No ways.

I have to call you out on this specifically, WhatNext. You've been going on and on in the forums about how the culprits are from Surrey, Delta, other suburbs, etc. I think you should be held accountable for your immaturity and hate-mongering - you're almost as sad as the rioters.

So far, I've seen a wealthy high school student from Maple Ridge and a kid from Burnaby come forward. But will you eat your words when someone from East Van comes forward?
Grow up.

All I said it would be interesting to see where the people were from, and based on what the newscasts had shown they were predominantly not from Vancouver. Hardly constitutes "going on and on". If you read carefully, you'd noticed I'd said the professional a-holes were probably from basement suites in East Van. I've noticed on the forums that you have a knee-jerk defensiveness about being from the burbs.

There's a reason Surrey and the burbs generally had no problems because the rowdies came downtown, because it was "the place to be" You're hardly likely to find kids from Coquitlam heading to Surrey to watch the game there. And because they were away from home and (they thought) the eyes of people they knew they, they lost it.
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2011, 7:09 PM
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Pretty hard to defend Surrey. Another drive-by last night.
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2011, 1:48 AM
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Lots of people move to the burbs, once they move to a city that is their residence....we have our "trailer trash" but guess what...vancouver does too!! drive down hastings the mullet still rules
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2011, 2:19 AM
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Of course they were not mostly from Surrey. This from the Vancouver police Chief Constable Jim Chu
"The vast majority of people were not from Vancouver. They were from the suburbs, they were from the Interior,"

Basically the bridge and tunnel crowd.
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2011, 3:54 AM
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Shouldn't we be blaming our education system?
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2011, 4:56 AM
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We have an education system? Post link to source.

These aren't issues for the education system, these are issues with parenting and we as a society are going to have issues with the laissez-faire acceptance of today.
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2011, 5:46 AM
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Parenting and community-building, seems like.
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2011, 6:15 AM
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"The vast majority of people were not from Vancouver. They were from the suburbs, they were from the Interior,"

As one would expect the crowds downtown to watch Game 7 on Wednesday were almost certainly dominated by people from the suburbs and out of town. So the douche-bags who took part in the riot were certainly in proportion to the demographics of the crowd.

Since a majority (approximately 3/4) of Metro Vancouver residents live in suburbs like Burnaby, the North Shore and Surrey, and people across BC follow the Canucks so I would imagine Game 7 of the Stanley Cup brought many people from the Islands and Interior to Vancouver.
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2011, 1:00 PM
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As someone said... "Go home, the Skytrain is right there!"
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2011, 1:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyjoeda View Post
"The vast majority of people were not from Vancouver. They were from the suburbs, they were from the Interior,"

As one would expect the crowds downtown to watch Game 7 on Wednesday were almost certainly dominated by people from the suburbs and out of town. So the douche-bags who took part in the riot were certainly in proportion to the demographics of the crowd.

Since a majority (approximately 3/4) of Metro Vancouver residents live in suburbs like Burnaby, the North Shore and Surrey, and people across BC follow the Canucks so I would imagine Game 7 of the Stanley Cup brought many people from the Islands and Interior to Vancouver.
It does not seem the rioters were in proportion to the demographics of the region. The Chinese population in Richmond is at a higher ration that the rest of the area; I bet the proportion of Persians in North Van is higher; I am also willing to bet the proportion of gay men in the West End is also higher. Why cant the proportion of rioters also be higher from the burbs?

I have been following all of these 'outing the rioters blogs' out there with a lot of interest and so far I can assure you that almost all that I have seen that have been named have come from the suburbs. The only one that lists Vancouver as an address is a UBC student from the burbs. I am sure there will be more but is does not seem to be proportional.
     
     
  #34  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2011, 3:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Architype View Post
Shouldn't we be blaming our education system?
Its not a teacher's job to raise your kids.
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2011, 3:30 PM
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I blame Commercial Drive's ethos. For everything!
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2011, 3:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Architype View Post
Shouldn't we be blaming our education system?
Yeah, seems like at least some of them went to private schools.
     
     
  #37  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2011, 3:40 PM
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Parents can be sued in civil court for the actions of their children under 18. I hope the insurance companies replacing a lot of these items and making these repairs (including ICBC) will go after these people.
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2011, 4:19 PM
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Blaming people from 1 city is just ignorant. There were thousands of people from Surrey in central Surrey who after game 7 just left and went home. I didn't hear any riots in Surrey or Delta or anywhere else around the lower mainland.

The truth is so far the people IDed, arrested, and/or charged have come from all over the lower mainland. There have been some from Vancouver, Port Moody, Coquitlam, Burnaby, etc. And as someone pointed out above, 3/4 of the population of Metro Vancouver lives outside Vancouver so you're just stating the obvious that probably 3/4 of the crowd were from outside Vancouver.

Still blaming other cities is not only ignorant but way off base. If people in Vancouver want to blame anyone it should be your Mayor. It could also possibly be the Police chief but given the mayor of Vancouver, I'd put some money down that budget approval or lack-thereof probably tied the hands of the VPD chief. The fact they had to call in police from other cities such as Surrey, Delta, Burnaby, and Abbotsford, tells me the city of Vancouver didn't give them enough money or resources.

The VPD has over 1300 officers. It certainly didn't look like there were anywhere near that number downtown at any point even well into the riot, even AFTER police from other cities showed up to help. I'd be surprised if the VPD had more than 300 officers on the street downtown even though some numbers have the count at around 700 (I think that way too high).

So you should blame your own city just as much as the idiots who caused trouble, but certainly not Surrey or the many citizens from Surrey who went and helped clean up.

And I hope people I know stop talking about how the Olympics went so well (especially Mayor Gregor!). That's because 1) the RCMP were in charge with a near unlimitted budget and 2) there were 6,000 officers and 4,500 military on the streets.

A whole different ball game.
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2011, 9:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jhausner View Post
Blaming people from 1 city is just ignorant. There were thousands of people from Surrey in central Surrey who after game 7 just left and went home. I didn't hear any riots in Surrey or Delta or anywhere else around the lower mainland.

The truth is so far the people IDed, arrested, and/or charged have come from all over the lower mainland. There have been some from Vancouver, Port Moody, Coquitlam, Burnaby, etc. And as someone pointed out above, 3/4 of the population of Metro Vancouver lives outside Vancouver so you're just stating the obvious that probably 3/4 of the crowd were from outside Vancouver.

Still blaming other cities is not only ignorant but way off base. If people in Vancouver want to blame anyone it should be your Mayor. It could also possibly be the Police chief but given the mayor of Vancouver, I'd put some money down that budget approval or lack-thereof probably tied the hands of the VPD chief. The fact they had to call in police from other cities such as Surrey, Delta, Burnaby, and Abbotsford, tells me the city of Vancouver didn't give them enough money or resources.

The VPD has over 1300 officers. It certainly didn't look like there were anywhere near that number downtown at any point even well into the riot, even AFTER police from other cities showed up to help. I'd be surprised if the VPD had more than 300 officers on the street downtown even though some numbers have the count at around 700 (I think that way too high).

So you should blame your own city just as much as the idiots who caused trouble, but certainly not Surrey or the many citizens from Surrey who went and helped clean up.

And I hope people I know stop talking about how the Olympics went so well (especially Mayor Gregor!). That's because 1) the RCMP were in charge with a near unlimitted budget and 2) there were 6,000 officers and 4,500 military on the streets.

A whole different ball game.
I don't think the evidence is conclusive for your hypothesis.

Just because the burbs were tame after the game doesn't mean the burbs are not where the trouble makers are from. It could just as easily, and more likely, mean that people "don't shit in their homes" and congregated downtown to shit in someone else's.

I came into downtown for the game, and transit and the roads were crazy.

It took 35 minutes to make the 10 minute trip from Broadway to Granville on Skytrain. Every train was arriving 100% full at Granville station and completely unloading, this caused a ripple effect down the line and the trains were moving about a train length every minute, then resting for a minute. That didn't happen to me during the Olympics.

The roads were just as crazy. Hwy 91 was backed up to past 64th. The bus I was on on Scott Road took 30 minutes to travel from 84th to 96th because of traffic (I have NEVER seen it that bad northbound in the PM). The counterflow came off the tunnel early, and when my girlfriend went through it during the first intermission it was backed up to past the Delta works yard. That late people were still flooding into downtown. She rode Canada Line during the Second period and saw a group of kids from the Island (they asked her for directions) that were already hammered and drinking on the train that and the score at that time gave her second thoughts about joining me at a friends place and she thought of turning around and going home.

It just goes to show that downtown was full of people coming in from outside the city. Be it Surrey, Maple Ridge, the interior or the Island, most of these locations are suburban or rural, and the Downtown core was full of them.

While many (even most) of the people from the burbs didn't directly participate in the riot, their presence and refusal to leave after the game sure didn't help. I find it a bit hard to reason that if they were not there, there still would have been a riot.
     
     
  #40  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2011, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by andyh View Post
It does not seem the rioters were in proportion to the demographics of the region. The Chinese population in Richmond is at a higher ration that the rest of the area; I bet the proportion of Persians in North Van is higher; I am also willing to bet the proportion of gay men in the West End is also higher. Why cant the proportion of rioters also be higher from the burbs?

I have been following all of these 'outing the rioters blogs' out there with a lot of interest and so far I can assure you that almost all that I have seen that have been named have come from the suburbs. The only one that lists Vancouver as an address is a UBC student from the burbs. I am sure there will be more but is does not seem to be proportional.

Essentially what you are saying is that people from outside the city of Vancouver are for some reason more likely to join a riot?

That is such an ignorant and naive opinion, and your logic of using "'outing the rioters blogs'" (Facebook) a highly unscientific and anecdotal source to back up your incredibly weak argument is simply ridiculous.

Many City of Vancouver residence took part in the riot along with people from Surrey, Burnaby and other suburban cities. Sorry to break the news to you but the city of Vancouver has bad people too.
     
     
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