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  #221  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2010, 5:16 AM
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Originally Posted by glowrock View Post
I have no idea. For some reason, D/FW has just absolutely blown Houston out of the water in terms of its public transit. DART is an excellent service, only getting better, MUCH better. Houston will likely take 40-50 years before reaching DART's success right now, yet alone with the upcoming expansions!

Aaron (Glowrock)
I'm not trying to start a "verses" battle here, but it's not like METRO and DART blow one another away in terms of transit. Yes DFW has more rail, but both systems share similar ridership.
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  #222  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2010, 5:20 AM
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I'm not trying to start a "verses" battle here, but it's not like METRO and DART blow one another away in terms of transit. Yes DFW has more rail, but both systems share similar ridership.
Fair enough, but I'm specifically referring to rail, TexasPlaya. For some reason, D/FW has been far more amenable to adding rail than Houston. Again, I'm not sure why.

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  #223  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2010, 5:42 AM
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Worst transit station ever?
What you don't see to the right of that picture is a University that's adjacent to the greater Las Colinas area. You're seeing an isolated aerial of an entire section of Freeway corridor under construction.

And DART doesn't have the ridership base of Metro, plus it has the incredible disadvantage of having to deal with far more municipalities and competing systems within the metro. If DART had the unified tax base and didn't have to campaign against every municipal resistance group and competing entity, the D2, Orange and Green lines would have opened years ago and the 2030 plan would be the 2015 plan. DART takes a lot of heat around here, especially from people in the suburbs, but given the political situation in DFW with 10 trillion municipalities seriously competing for everything you could imagine, its a marvel that DART has been able to do what it has done and maintain a decent ridership. Just check dallasnews.com sometimes. Its crazy how vilified DART is to some.

Last edited by Owlhorn; Oct 14, 2010 at 5:57 AM.
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  #224  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2010, 5:45 AM
jamesinclair jamesinclair is offline
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Originally Posted by dfwcr8tive View Post
Why is that?
Chose one.

Massive freeway expansion
Linking rail with freeway (a very bad idea, it creates a massive wall)
Nothing to walk to
A wasteland
A forest that will soon be killed

Put it together and you get what appears to be the worst transit station in the country. Can anybody find a worse location?
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  #225  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2010, 6:05 AM
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Originally Posted by TexasPlaya View Post
Because Houston already has a good commuter system in it's park&ride and doesn't need commuter rail like this. Also, Houston is building (at least trying to) an inner city rail. DART's rail system is hybrid so it's trying to do both.

Transit isn't a one size fit all problem as Houston's method wouldn't work for DFW and vice versa.
Not to mention: http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?se...rticle-7718871

You're starting to see the suburban areas in Houston open up to commuter rail now. Montgomery County and Galveston County already seem to be for it. Then, the 290 expansion will bring in the NW Line.

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Originally Posted by glowrock View Post
Fair enough, but I'm specifically referring to rail, TexasPlaya. For some reason, D/FW has been far more amenable to adding rail than Houston. Again, I'm not sure why.

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  #226  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2010, 3:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Trae View Post
Not to mention: http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?se...rticle-7718871

You're starting to see the suburban areas in Houston open up to commuter rail now. Montgomery County and Galveston County already seem to be for it. Then, the 290 expansion will bring in the NW Line.
Where's the money for this going to come from? I see Galveston and 290 getting commuter rail before any other suburb and that's still probably 5-10 years away.

Furthermore, look at DART's rail expansion photos. Houston and Dallas aren't dense and what you get is a park&ride rail out in the suburbs. I applaud DART for it's forward thinking but I think it will be quite a few years before this rail to living up to its potential. I think in today's budget constraints commuter bus can compete with rail in a less glamorous way.
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  #227  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2010, 10:14 PM
greywallsareboring greywallsareboring is offline
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I use DART everyday to get from the burbs to downtown. DFW rail has it's problems, but after spending years living in Moscow, and using the most efficient metro in the world, I was happy to come back and see the new lines opening. Hate on the parking lots if you want (I would love to not use a car like in Moscow), but the trains are full at rush hour and they work for me. When it comes to rail DFW does beat other Texas metros on this account. The funding situation and pull-out elections may not be pretty, but I get to work with only 10 min of driving time. And the only subway station in Texas gives you something of an urban feel for a few minutes
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  #228  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2010, 12:44 AM
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Lightbulb

A worse location would be to place the light rail station in the center median of the freeway. That's not the case here....






This station is located between the freeway lanes and the service road lanes. Access to the parking lot is from the service road, and pedestrians walk under the service road in a tunnel, so the station will not be impossible to reach.

The University of Dallas is located on the opposite side of the freeway, and there will be a new bridge built crossing the freeway with traffic lights. Therefore pedestrians and bicyclists crossing the service roads and freeway should be safe.

All the empty land surrounding the station is also owned by the university, which is planning to place the university book store and other stores aimed for students right next to the station. That's why there's so little parking built by DART here, 'cause the university will build some parking too.

It's one thing to state that the station looks like it is in the worse place possible, but maybe it won't be after the university finishes building its TOD.
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  #229  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2010, 2:31 AM
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Say what you want, but as a resident of downtown Dallas, I like what I see in Houston's system and wish Dallas would build a similar urban rail.

DART works well if you are going to the urban corridor it serves (West End, direct City Center, the fringe of Deep Ellum) but for actual urban acessibility, it leaves a lot to be desired, from a pure rail standpoint. Houston is (will be)actually in the middle, rather than on old freight ROW away from the buit environment.

It works okay for what it is, primarily a suburban commuter network into downtown. As more section open, it may become more of an urban system, particularly depending on the alignent chosen for the second route downtown (the option the city favors is putrid, the one DART planners favor is better, but not the best option). To put it in perspective, using a cliche and comparing it to New York, DART's "urban" rail system covers a greater area geographically, but has over 150 miles less and about 400 stations less. It has more miles than stations.

Houston on the other hand will have over 1/3 the miles Dallas does, but more stations.
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  #230  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2010, 3:33 AM
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Take Houston's planned system and Dallas' planned system and merge them together into one system and that's what the ultimate goal is.
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  #231  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2010, 4:17 AM
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Originally Posted by FoUTASportscaster View Post
Say what you want, but as a resident of downtown Dallas, I like what I see in Houston's system and wish Dallas would build a similar urban rail.

DART works well if you are going to the urban corridor it serves (West End, direct City Center, the fringe of Deep Ellum) but for actual urban acessibility, it leaves a lot to be desired, from a pure rail standpoint. Houston is (will be)actually in the middle, rather than on old freight ROW away from the buit environment.

It works okay for what it is, primarily a suburban commuter network into downtown. As more section open, it may become more of an urban system, particularly depending on the alignent chosen for the second route downtown (the option the city favors is putrid, the one DART planners favor is better, but not the best option).
Agreed. I do think the rail has great long term potential, especially if DFW continues to grow.

Quote:
To put it in perspective, using a cliche and comparing it to New York, DART's "urban" rail system covers a greater area geographically, but has over 150 miles less and about 400 stations less. It has more miles than stations.

Houston on the other hand will have over 1/3 the miles Dallas does, but more stations.
That's interesting. I wish Houston had DFW's can do attitude about building new infrastructure, it seems we in Houston can build great highways but are cautious when it comes to rail. Not to mention how incompetently run METRO was and possibly wasted ~$50 million and 4 years of time.
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  #232  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2010, 1:38 PM
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Originally Posted by FoUTASportscaster View Post
Say what you want, but as a resident of downtown Dallas, I like what I see in Houston's system and wish Dallas would build a similar urban rail.

DART works well if you are going to the urban corridor it serves (West End, direct City Center, the fringe of Deep Ellum) but for actual urban acessibility, it leaves a lot to be desired, from a pure rail standpoint. Houston is (will be)actually in the middle, rather than on old freight ROW away from the buit environment.

It works okay for what it is, primarily a suburban commuter network into downtown. As more section open, it may become more of an urban system, particularly depending on the alignent chosen for the second route downtown (the option the city favors is putrid, the one DART planners favor is better, but not the best option). To put it in perspective, using a cliche and comparing it to New York, DART's "urban" rail system covers a greater area geographically, but has over 150 miles less and about 400 stations less. It has more miles than stations.

Houston on the other hand will have over 1/3 the miles Dallas does, but more stations.
Very simplified.

a.) The D2 line debate has always been silly to me. Every alignment has a con. Neither is great and neither is bad. But I like their proposed temporary solution since its not happening. Expand the M-Line in that part of downtown.

b.) Houston's system = street car system so far. The further out they build, the more it will become like DART. If you were writing a critique of DART's original red/blue line, it you'd find it was very similar to MetroRail in 1996. Its been this decade that has really spread things into a commuter system.

DART is getting the M-Line in their possession and will use a modern street car system with multiple stops bringing it a more analogous, multi-stop urban system. Signed, sealed and funded. This is what the D2 system should be a part of. Not part of the commuter rail. I'd rather see 3 stops only downtown for the commuter system. All under or above grade. Link the transit mall and D2 to the streetcar system. In fact I think all the at grade, inner-city lines should be a part of the new M-Line, including the more urban Green Line and blue line areas. This WILL happen because circumstance is allowing the planners to see this happen. The Fair Park situation each year will help them see this. Not getting D2 funded will let them see this. Possession of the M-Line going right through Uptown and possibly Knox-Henderson will help them see this. Time. The foundation is there already. Planners just have to realize their own reasons for delays.

c.) DART was built and purposed to be a commuter system and link the job centers in DART cities. Its doing what it said. It may not be impressive to the ultra urbanist here because its not criss-crossing Uptown and downtown 50 times, but its doing what it was built for. I think it does make a mistake by going slow transit mall downtown instead of subway or elevated, but I think that will be corrected as creativity has had to be born out of tighter budget.
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  #233  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2010, 1:24 AM
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Free rides on the new Green Line in Carrollton plus music!

http://www.carrolltonfestival.com/
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  #234  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2010, 4:37 AM
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Lightbulb

DART's light rail was designed to be a cheaper light rail version of the Bay Area's BART heavy rail system, not a MUNI's streetcar/cablecar system. I'll agree it isn't urban enough in most of Dallas and suburbs, but it is urban rail in downtown Dallas running through the Bryan/Pacific streetmall where there is high density urban districts.
DART's light rail corridors go over and under obstacles, follow abandoned railroad corridors, and run down the center of city streets. Taking advantage of what light rail trains do best. As for the slower speeds on the streetmall downtown, all street running urban rail runs as slow, including Houston's Metro. At least DART trains run slow only on the streetmall, Metro's light rail trains run that slow over its entire 5 mile corridor to IH 610.

How can anyone truthfully state that DART's light rail is slow downtown and not state Metro's light rail is slow too? You can't have it both ways, fast and urban rail. Having far more stations per mile that urban rail, by what most of us would define, automatically makes it slower. The "R" in DART stands for "Rapid". It achieves its faster speeds mainly by having less stations per mile.
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  #235  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2010, 5:23 AM
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Originally Posted by electricron View Post
DART's light rail was designed to be a cheaper light rail version of the Bay Area's BART heavy rail system, not a MUNI's streetcar/cablecar system. I'll agree it isn't urban enough in most of Dallas and suburbs, but it is urban rail in downtown Dallas running through the Bryan/Pacific streetmall where there is high density urban districts.
DART's light rail corridors go over and under obstacles, follow abandoned railroad corridors, and run down the center of city streets. Taking advantage of what light rail trains do best. As for the slower speeds on the streetmall downtown, all street running urban rail runs as slow, including Houston's Metro. At least DART trains run slow only on the streetmall, Metro's light rail trains run that slow over its entire 5 mile corridor to IH 610.

How can anyone truthfully state that DART's light rail is slow downtown and not state Metro's light rail is slow too? You can't have it both ways, fast and urban rail. Having far more stations per mile that urban rail, by what most of us would define, automatically makes it slower. The "R" in DART stands for "Rapid". It achieves its faster speeds mainly by having less stations per mile.

Dallas, with its DART mass transit system of heavy and light rail, is moving forward to its future status as a "World Capital of the Future" (named by Forbes in September '09 as a select city to become a "world capital").

Even with all of the substantial work already completed for a Southern/Southwestern city in the U.S., DART is in an early to an early-middle stage of its developement.

Atlanta is much further along in its mass transit compared to Dallas but it benefited much earlier on in its development from SUBSTANTIAL Federal grants that Dallas has only minimally benefitted by.

The best is yet to come for Dallas and DART even in recognition of all of the incredible achievements already under its belt!

Anyone can be critical of its every step at this juncture, but the bottom line is that it is bringing an incredible "world class" effort at developing mass transit, both light and heavy rail, for Dallas and its metro area at a time that so many cities are struggling to even keep buses on their streets.

DART may not be perfect in every way at this specific point in time, with the economic challenges facing all cities, but it is focused on bringing light and heavy rail to the Dallas metro in a way that will benefit the whole.

Dallas has permanently lept ahead of every competitior city in Texas and the Southwest with its far reaching mass transit vision that has been in development for a very long time.

The D2 line in Downtown Dallas will only further that goal.
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  #236  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2010, 6:38 PM
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Question: Will the A-Train be operational on Day one of the Green Line - North extension or will we need to wait awhile for the connection to open?
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  #237  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2010, 4:16 AM
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Lightbulb

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Originally Posted by BrennanW View Post
Question: Will the A-Train be operational on Day one of the Green Line - North extension or will we need to wait awhile for the connection to open?
DART's Green Line to Carrollton is scheduled to open this December, at the present time DCTA's A-Train is scheduled to open probably next June (actually late Spring).
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  #238  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2010, 8:07 PM
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Transit advocates push for rail reinvestment zones
Posted Saturday, Oct. 23, 2010
By Gordon Dickson
gdickson@star-telegram.com


Transportation advocates are considering using reinvestment zones, a popular financial vehicle used to rebuild neighborhoods and promote development, to spur passenger rail service in cities that are looking for alternatives to traffic jams.

Rail advocates say they'll push during the legislative session that begins in January to expand the state law that allows cities or counties to create reinvestment zones. The zones use increases in property tax proceeds to pay for development. The change would allow the creation of transportation reinvestment zones for commuter train projects.

A reinvestment zone like that could speed up construction of the proposed commuter rail line from southwest Fort Worth to Grapevine and Dallas/Fort Worth Airport. It could also lead to development of the Cotton Belt line to Wylie, northeast of Dallas.

Supporters hope the public views transportation reinvestment zones as a more palatable way to pay for rail than raising taxes and fees. Rail projects are typically paid for with local sales taxes and federal grants backed by motor fuels taxes, but recent attempts to raise taxes for transit have failed.

"It is important to note that a transportation reinvestment zone does not result in a tax increase," Brian Cassidy, an Austin lawyer who has represented regional mobility authorities and other entities involved in toll projects, told a state Senate committee during a recent hearing.

How it works

As rail stations are built, and commercial and residential development springs up around them, increased property values in the area begin to generate additional property taxes, Cassidy said. If a reinvestment zone could be created near those stations, the new tax revenue could be placed into an account to pay off the station's initial costs.

"It is merely a specific dedication of the incremental tax revenues generated within the boundaries" of a transportation reinvestment zone, he said.

Not everyone is ready to embrace the idea.

Fort Worth Councilman Jungus Jordan is a strong rail supporter, but he worries that the city already has 11 tax increment financing districts, which use property taxes in an area for public improvements. The more money that goes into any kind of special tax district, the less money available for citywide services.

Jordan also opposes sending new property tax revenue to a governing body outside the city's control. For example, under current law if counties create a transportation reinvestment zone, a road utility district must be created to oversee the activity in the zone.

"I think we're going to have to pay close attention to who's in charge of the money and how it's used," he said.

Patchwork rail system

But the zeal for transportation reinvestment zones is an example of how local governments are scrambling to put together a 251-mile network of passenger rail lines in North Texas, despite a lack of funding.

In several corners of the Metroplex, officials are working to launch the first new rail project since DART opened its light-rail system in 1996, and then joined forces with the Fort Worth Transportation Authority to extend the Trinity Railway Express to Fort Worth in 2001.

In Denton, a project known as the A Train is scheduled to open in late spring. The train, which will run from Denton to Carrollton and connect to light-rail service in Dallas, is expected to cost $325 million -- and most of that will be paid for by tolls collected on the Sam Rayburn Tollway.

In Tarrant, Dallas and Collin counties, regional planners are searching for alternatives to fund not only the proposed rail line in the Fort Worth area, but also an eastern section of the corridor known as the Cotton Belt Line, which extends 62 miles from the Stockyards to Wylie northeast of Dallas.

A group known as Partnership for Livable Communities was hired this year by the North Central Texas Council of Governments to draft a creative financing plan for the Cotton Belt project.

The group includes Fort Worth urban planner Scott Polikov, president of Gateway Planning Group, as well as former state Rep. Mike Krusee of Austin. They're being pressed into action because Dallas Area Rapid Transit, which owns the Cotton Belt Line, doesn't anticipate having the funds to build the project for decades.

Polikov declined to discuss details of what funding options may be pursued for the Cotton Belt, but he did say forming a transportation reinvestment zone "is certainly an option, but it's just one of many we're looking at."

The Fort Worth Transportation Authority, which has been planning the southwest Fort Worth-to-Grapevine line since at least 2001, is falling behind in its quest to have the service open by 2014.

The T had hoped to apply for an estimated $260 million federal new-starts transit grant nearly a year ago, but the process has been bogged down in a dispute between the council of governments and Federal Transit Administration over a technical issue. The two sides disagree on what type of computer model to use to estimate ridership on the line -- a complicated but important step that is used to determine whether the project qualifies for federal funds.

In Dallas, efforts to extend two light-rail lines languished before being rescued by a sudden influx of federal funding. DART last year got $78.4 million in federal stimulus funds to speed up construction of the Green Line, which is scheduled to meet Denton County's A Train in Carrollton early next year.

DART also received $61 million in federal funds in 2009 for the Orange Line, which is expected to connect to the T's commuter rail line on the north end of D/FW Airport by 2014.

Catching up to growth

Because these projects are being built piecemeal, it is taking years longer than expected to get the trains to the neighborhoods where people will ride them, supporters say. Meanwhile, highways remain clogged, as the effort to relieve congestion is outpaced by growth.

Using property taxes to pay for rail may be the region's best chance to get the problem under control, officials said.

"We need stable, long-term financing, year to year," T President Dick Ruddell said.

Gordon Dickson, 817-390-7796
http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/10...-for-rail.html
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  #239  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2010, 8:24 PM
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Originally Posted by BrennanW View Post
Question: Will the A-Train be operational on Day one of the Green Line - North extension or will we need to wait awhile for the connection to open?
Quote:
Originally Posted by electricron View Post
DART's Green Line to Carrollton is scheduled to open this December, at the present time DCTA's A-Train is scheduled to open probably next June (actually late Spring).
^ This. The DCTA A-Train's line is expected (according my understanding) to be completed by the end of the year, but they will not open the line until Spring. In the meantime, they'll be doing things like testing the line and the TRE trains, etc. The new trains won't be delivered until 2012, they'll be borrowing from the TRE until then.
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  #240  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2010, 2:44 AM
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyly View Post
^ This. The DCTA A-Train's line is expected (according my understanding) to be completed by the end of the year, but they will not open the line until Spring. In the meantime, they'll be doing things like testing the line and the TRE trains, etc. The new trains won't be delivered until 2012, they'll be borrowing from the TRE until then.
"Borrowing" implies the TRE is loaning their trains to DCTA for free, I prefer the more correct term be used; "Leasing" implies that the TRE will be receiving payment from DCTA for the use of their trains.
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