Homicide stats in Canadian Cities

[speedog]

Originally Posted by softee

On that graphic, Toronto is located where London is. hah

They probably were not too worried about exact placement, more likely the conveyance of the information was the better part of the intent.

[Acajack]

Ottawa had its first murder of the year this week.

A 23-year-old man was shot outside his home in the city's south end, not too far from the airport.

Shootings have also continued where they left off in 2017. There have been a couple since the start of the year already, aside from this fatal one.

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Ottawa had its first murder of the year this week.

A 23-year-old man was shot outside his home in the city's south end, not too far from the airport.

Shootings have also continued where they left off in 2017. There have been a couple since the start of the year already, aside from this fatal one.

What's happening in Ottawa? Is this violence gang related? The last three or four times I have been there for business there has been a shooting in Byward Market. Anecdotally, it seems like violent crime is trending upwards compared to when I used to travel years prior.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Jammon

What's happening in Ottawa? Is this violence gang related? The last three or four times I have been there for business there has been a shooting in Byward Market. Anecdotally, it seems like violent crime is trending upwards compared to when I used to travel years prior.

The police keep insisting (even this week after this killing) that it's not related to gangs but regardless, it's obvious that several parts of Ottawa have a large number of young men who are completely disaffected and out of control. And have easy access to guns.

This latest murder happened in a coop housing project not too far from where a girl I used to date lived. It was mixed between middle class and upper class back then, and much of the area is actually affluent and backs onto a prestigious golf course. I mean, this is about 500 m from where the fatal shooting happened:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.34425...7i13312!8i6656

A number of areas in Ottawa seem to be transitioning from a mix of middle and upper class (and the extremely low crime rates that people associate with the city) to a juxtaposition of higher crime dodgy areas very close to affluent ones.

I wonder if the spike in crime in these areas (which is real, no matter what certain people will say) will lead to some of the richer people moving out to areas perceived as safer.

I live in Gatineau, which so far has not been affected by this, and even though I don't feel it personally, watching this going on I can now see even more clearly how NIMBY movements about social and coop housing and "affluence flight" can take root in communities.

There are a couple of areas near where I live (though not immediately adjacent) that I could see having the potential for this type of downward spiral, given the wrong circumstances.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Jammon

What's happening in Ottawa? Is this violence gang related? The last three or four times I have been there for business there has been a shooting in Byward Market. Anecdotally, it seems like violent crime is trending upwards compared to when I used to travel years prior.

Perhaps not "gang related", but the victim was certainly "known to the police". He was facing charges of attempting to bribe a police officer (!) a couple of weeks ago.

[Vixx]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The police keep insisting (even this week after this killing) that it's not related to gangs but regardless, it's obvious that several parts of Ottawa have a large number of young men who are completely disaffected and out of control. And have easy access to guns.

This latest murder happened in a coop housing project not too far from where a girl I used to date lived. It was mixed between middle class and upper class back then, and much of the area is actually affluent and backs onto a prestigious golf course. I mean, this is about 500 m from where the fatal shooting happened:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.34425...7i13312!8i6656

A number of areas in Ottawa seem to be transitioning from a mix of middle and upper class (and the extremely low crime rates that people associate with the city) to a juxtaposition of higher crime dodgy areas very close to affluent ones.

I wonder if the spike in crime in these areas (which is real, no matter what certain people will say) will lead to some of the richer people moving out to areas perceived as safer.

I live in Gatineau, which so far has not been affected by this, and even though I don't feel it personally, watching this going on I can now see even more clearly how NIMBY movements about social and coop housing and "affluence flight" can take root in communities.

There are a couple of areas near where I live (though not immediately adjacent) that I could see having the potential for this type of downward spiral, given the wrong circumstances.

Completely agree.

Having been raised in Ottawa's south end, I've witnessed first hand the weird build up (juxtaposition) of areas that are mixed between upper middle class/wealthy, right beside areas that are low income, social housing (that were once middle class areas). Many of the people living in those wealthier pockets have taken notice for awhile now of whats been going on and they are pissed.

I have a few close friends living in those wealthier pockets (one lives very close from where the recent murder took place, in a high end neighbourhood) close to some of the shady ones that have sprung up and all agree that the south end is becoming a magnet for crime. In another 5-10 years I expect to see many of the middle/high income folks take off to Greely, Manotick, Riverside South etc.

I remember growing up the people living near South Keys were primarily of Italian descent, along with some people of Polish, French and Lebanese descent (mainly European) and some typical working class Canadians. Nowadays there is a very heavy Lebanese and Somalian presence, so the area has witnessed a demographic shift. Many new immigrants and refugees have moved to that area, resulting in a sizeable group of low income families just starting off life in Canada with their kids turning to gang activity, drugs etc. Some of the families that have lived in the area for a long time are either thinking of moving or already have.

I think this is how some areas in Ottawa have that strange juxtaposition of wealthy and low income neighbourhoods so close to each other now. Unfortunately I think in another 5-10 years the situation will be worst and we'll see more people take off deeper into the south end with more people living in social housing/low income move into the area, resulting in a higher crime rate. South Keys station went from just a normal, boring plaza/bus station to an area with a lot of seedy activity at night. There's been more then a few incidents that have taken place there.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Vixx

Completely agree.

Having been raised in Ottawa's south end, I've witnessed first hand the weird build up (juxtaposition) of areas that are mixed between upper middle class/wealthy, right beside areas that are low income, social housing (that were once middle class areas). Many of the people living in those wealthier pockets have taken notice for awhile now of whats been going on and they are pissed.

I have a few close friends living in those wealthier pockets (one lives very close from where the recent murder took place, in a high end neighbourhood) close to some of the shady ones that have sprung up and all agree that the south end is becoming a magnet for crime. In another 5-10 years I expect to see many of the middle/high income folks take off to Greely, Manotick, Riverside South etc.

I remember growing up the people living near South Keys were primarily of Italian descent, along with some people of Polish, French and Lebanese descent (mainly European) and some typical working class Canadians. Nowadays there is a very heavy Lebanese and Somalian presence, so the area has witnessed a demographic shift. Many new immigrants and refugees have moved to that area, resulting in a sizeable group of low income families just starting off life in Canada with their kids turning to gang activity, drugs etc. Some of the families that have lived in the area for a long time are either thinking of moving or already have.

I think this is how some areas in Ottawa have that strange juxtaposition of wealthy and low income neighbourhoods so close to each other now. Unfortunately I think in another 5-10 years the situation will be worst and we'll see more people take off deeper into the south end with more people living in social housing/low income move into the area, resulting in a higher crime rate. South Keys station went from just a normal, boring plaza/bus station to an area with a lot of seedy activity at night. There's been more then a few incidents that have taken place there.

I tried to start a discussion today in the Ottawa forum and was basically told I was full of it (nicely - it's Ottawa after all) and subtly accused of being a Nancy Grace-style crime alarmist.

I probably won't insist more in the Ottawa thread (even if nothing prevents Ottawans from posting here) but I actually find that attitude to be a bit worrisome.

Public indifference and denial of a crime problem has often led to spiralling crime rates in other cities and it's often hard to bring it back down. A lot of the denials come from the fact that murders dropped from 24 to 14 from 2017 to 2016. But shootings were still up again - I don't know if there is much comfort to be found in the fact that violent criminals are poor shots...

For having lived in this area for quite some time (at various points in my life) no matter what certain stats say there are some types of crimes taking place in Ottawa that almost never happened before. For example I did not live in Ottawa proper in my youth but my friends and I did go out on the Byward Market and I can hardly remember any shootings at all on Friday and Saturday nights in all those years. Now they happen with some degree of regularity in the market and in certain other areas of the city too.

Hopefully it won't take a Jane Creba-type tragedy in order to wake people up. That was like an electroshock for Toronto and yet the "Toronto The Good" public safety climate never really returned to that city.

[Vixx]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I tried to start a discussion today in the Ottawa forum and was basically told I was full of it (nicely - it's Ottawa after all) and subtly accused of being a Nancy Grace-style crime alarmist.

I probably won't insist more in the Ottawa thread (even if nothing prevents Ottawans from posting here) but I actually find that attitude to be a bit worrisome.

Public indifference and denial of a crime problem has often led to spiralling crime rates in other cities and it's often hard to bring it back down. A lot of the denials come from the fact that murders dropped from 24 to 14 from 2017 to 2016. But shootings were still up again - I don't know if there is much comfort to be found in the fact that violent criminals are poor shots...

For having lived in this area for quite some time (at various points in my life) no matter what certain stats say there are some types of crimes taking place in Ottawa that almost never happened before. For example I did not live in Ottawa proper in my youth but my friends and I did go out on the Byward Market and I can hardly remember any shootings at all on Friday and Saturday nights in all those years. Now they happen with some degree of regularity in the market and in certain other areas of the city too.

Hopefully it won't take a Jane Creba-type tragedy in order to wake people up. That was like an electroshock for Toronto and yet the "Toronto The Good" public safety climate never really returned to that city.

Yeah I saw that thread. I didn't want to start a flame war like what is usually seen in the Ottawa subreddit whenever this topic is brought up. But I do hope there can be a healthy discussion on this because whoever denies that hasn't been an increase of certain crime is putting their head in the sand.

The thing that worries me is that before I moved out of the city (which was very recently) it's like the past 5-6 years I've been witnessing the very early stages of "affluence flight" and a rapid shift in demographics that have led to a community that is pretty ticked off. What was once just another boring suburb of Ottawa has slowly shifted to becoming a place without a sense of community and garnering a reputation as a shady area (especially at night near or around South Keys).

Anyone from there or living there knows that many are thinking of moving elsewhere in town because of the seedy activity thats been going on slowly over time. The juxtaposition between upper middle class/low income neighbourhoods is not sustainable and soon enough people (the upper middle class) will just leave. Every single one of my friends sees it but it's not talked about at large because if you say you notice roots for criminal activity your just spewing "hyperbole" and are being a typical Ottawa "NIMBY".

I agree Ottawa is the safest major city in Canada. And I've been to most of the major cities in the country. But that isn't an excuse to say that some of the stuff brewing in certain communities (the south end in my example or the Byward Market shootings in your example Acajack) is exaggerated and that there's nothing going on. I've witnessed first hand what's going on and the outlook isn't promising.

[Acajack]

Crime rates in most Canadian cities are generally not going up. Even violent crime overall tends to be down, and this includes domestic violence and also armed robberies of banks and corner stores which have all but disappeared compared to what they were before. Stuff like automobile break-ins (to steal car radios for example) and residential break-ins I assume are also way down I assume due to the ubiquity of various security systems.

But certain types of crimes like shootings are up in many cities. Including Ottawa.

On a broader level, the "social climate" is a very fragile balance, and something that many Canadians seem to take for granted.

The idea of a large city where you can go to basically any single corner of the urban area at any time of day or night without feeling any real anxiety about personal safety is not a pipe dream - it's a desirable thing and exists in many parts of the world. It even exists in a number of places in Canada.

But it's something that's easily lost once it starts to whittle away.

Just ask the Swedes.

[Oliver May]

Originally Posted by Acajack

But certain types of crimes like shootings are up in many cities. Including Ottawa.

On a broader level, the "social climate" is a very fragile balance, and something that many Canadians seem to take for granted.

The idea of a large city where you can go to basically any single corner of the urban area at any time of day or night without feeling any real anxiety about personal safety is not a pipe dream - it's a desirable thing and exists in many parts of the world. It even exists in a number of places in Canada.

But it's something that's easily lost once it starts to whittle away.

Just ask the Swedes.

Ironically, Québec City would qualify in both categories. 10 murders in the greater Québec City area in 2017 - including an infinite increase in shooting deaths from 2016. But still I would not be afraid to walk around any part of the city at any time of the day - well apart from being afraid of freezing to death - but I have a great winter coat.

The reality is that even Edmonton and Ottawa are safe cities by North American standards.

And once again, Québec City or Montreal are the safest major cities in Canada not Ottawa.

[Vixx]

Well said Acajack.

[vid]

Many of the gang members arrested in Thunder Bay are coming from Ottawa, street drugs cost more here so they make higher profits. They're trying to edge out gangs from Toronto and Winnipeg.

[Acajack]

Again re Canada's capital...

There has still been only one murder in Ottawa so far in 2018, but there have been six shootings in two weeks. That's double the pace of shootings that the city saw last year. Plus it's been super cold which often acts as a depressor on crime.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...2018-1.4487082

[flipper316]

Vancouver unfortunately started off the year with a bang.http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...dway-1.4488247

[240glt]

I think Edmonton rounded out 2017 with 42

2 in Edmonton so far this year, one young man found dead in an alley in the Ottewell neighborhood on New Years Day, and a man died today after being stabbed in a house in the central area of the city, close to a property I am trying to sell right now :/

[Acajack]

Sounds like there may have been two separate murders in Ottawa in the past 24 hours.

There have also been one, two or three more shootings in the city in the past couple of days.

[drizzo_613]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Sounds like there may have been two separate murders in Ottawa in the past 24 hours.

There have also been one, two or three more shootings in the city in the past couple of days.

at first i thought it was just 1 more, but then I read the following article.
dont do drugs kids..

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-investigating

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by drizzo_613

at first i thought it was just 1 more, but then I read the following article.
dont do drugs kids..

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-investigating

Impaired driving causing death?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Impaired driving causing death?

Manslaughter/second-degree murder maybe too...

[Acajack]

Second-degree murder by the sounds of it for that incident in Bells Corners where a teen was fatally hit by a vehicle.