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  #61  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
Los Angeles:

1. New York City
2. Tokyo / Toronto / Seattle
Los Angeles is unique, in both good and bad ways. I don't think it "looks up" to any city like maybe it used to, in an envious way. It is on its own path, and increasingly densifies and grows upwards out of necessity. It admires some features of other cities (New York, San Francisco etc.) and tries to improve. But Los Angeles is quite secure and clearly a world city, and number two in the United States.
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  #62  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 11:46 AM
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LA compares itself to other cities, but doesn’t look up to other cities. The city’s character is too famously inward-focused for that to be possible. At some point in history it looked up to SF. It should look up to Tokyo, but won’t.
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  #63  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 11:52 AM
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Copenhagen looks up to London and Berlin, the former for commerce and finance and the later for all things cool. It pretends Stockholm doesn't exist, and vice versa (this is stupid, but most such rivalries are).
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  #64  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
In what way does Paris serve as a model for NYC?
NYC and Paris are quite different, but many of the bedrock industries (fashion, banking, media, tourism) are the same. There's a lot of transatlantic wealth with a foot in both places. Also, NYC essentially replaced Paris as the globe's high culture hegemon and aspirational city. And they're the two densest western cities and share a grit/glamour feel.

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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
I totally understand London and even LA (kinda sorta), but not the French capital. Paris, however amazing and iconic it may be, seems quite stuck in its past--like a much bigger and more important Rome. It feels considerably less dynamic and cosmopolitan than its 'Big Four' counterparts. NYC has the High Line and Hudson Yards; London has the Eye, Shard, and Gherkin. What does Paris have that symbolizes contemporary zeitgeist?
I know this is the global sterotype, but it's exaggerated, probably a caricature based on the core, which feels embalmed in amber (a good thing, IMO). Contrast with London's core, which has tons of brutalist and recent architecture (and is mostly schizophrenic looking) or Berlin, which is all modern and downright ugly.

Paris is a fast-growing, very rich, dynamic metro, with a huge HQ base and lots of entrepreneurial/startup activity. I think it's a much safer long-term bet than London, especially post-Brexit (and Tokyo, for that matter, assuming that's the fourth of your big four).

Paris is not an "old" or "stagnant" metro. You just need to leave the city center, and you'll see a modern city with construction everywhere.

Rome, in contrast, isn't even the largest or most important city in Italy. It has practically no corporate or startup activity, and isn't very prosperous. And it's literally falling apart. I love Rome but it's a total mess.
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  #65  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
Copenhagen looks up to London and Berlin, the former for commerce and finance and the later for all things cool. It pretends Stockholm doesn't exist, and vice versa (this is stupid, but most such rivalries are).
To be fair, it’s closer to Berlin and London is in a different class of global city than Stockholm.
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  #66  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
In what way does Paris serve as a model for NYC? I totally understand London and even LA (kinda sorta), but not the French capital. Paris, however amazing and iconic it may be, seems quite stuck in its past--like a much bigger and more important Rome. It feels considerably less dynamic and cosmopolitan than its 'Big Four' counterparts. NYC has the High Line and Hudson Yards; London has the Eye, Shard, and Gherkin. What does Paris have that symbolizes contemporary zeitgeist?
I don’t think you spend much time in Paris.

And if anything captures the contemporary zeitgeist, it’s the gilets jaunes.
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  #67  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
Chicago likes to pretend it doesn't look up to anyone, but it should look up to Toronto I think. If you turn Chicago on its side you get Toronto, kind of.
Chicago doesn’t look up to Toronto because they are peer cities. And Toronto is the “younger” upstart, so if anything it should have been looking up to Chicago over the years.

And Chicago has always looked up to New York.
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  #68  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 2:07 PM
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Toronto looks to New York first, London second.

It's impressed by its stature, vibrancy, and influence on the popular culture. Toronto has long admired London for the same reasons. There are also strong residual Commonwealth bonds despite the Commonwealth being viewed as irrelevant today. I suspect Torontonians will always admire Montreal for its historical place in Canada. Skyscraper geeks and urbanists increasingly feel a kinship for Melbourne. We see ourselves when we look at Melbourne and pay attention to how its developing.

All said, Toronto doesn't really 'look up' to any city any more and isn't looking to emulate any place else. It wants to be a bigger, better version of itself.
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Last edited by isaidso; Jan 24, 2019 at 3:48 PM.
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  #69  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 2:16 PM
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Toronto looks up to Jacksonville?

I think people on SSP would be surprised at how many cities do not look up to New York and Chicago as a model for anything. They know the migration pattern and are full of transplants that specifically left those cities because of xyz. As others have already said, the term "Manhattanization" is a really bad word.
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  #70  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 2:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Chicago doesn’t look up to Toronto because they are peer cities. And Toronto is the “younger” upstart, so if anything it should have been looking up to Chicago over the years.
For a very long time Toronto did look to Chicago as a bigger more influential version of itself. I see ~2010 as the time when Toronto stopped looking to Chicago. Toronto still admires Chicago but it isn't part of the conversation any more.
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  #71  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 2:57 PM
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if the upper west coast were the bradys..

sf is marsha.
seattle is jan.
portland is cindy.

having lived in both, id consider portland and denver to be very similar.
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  #72  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 3:11 PM
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Originally Posted by pdxtex View Post
if the upper west coast were the bradys..

sf is marsha.
seattle is jan.
portland is cindy.

SF and Seattle are sluts to global business interests. PDX, not so much.
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  #73  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 3:41 PM
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In the last 10 years the Berlin media was citing several aspects of other cities as admirable:

Tech economy: San Francisco, Tel Aviv
Housing quality, city management: Vienna
Bicycle infrastructure: Amsterdam, Copenhagen
Cultural Achievements: Paris, L.A., NYC, London
City development speed + electric vehicles: Chinese cities
Social achievements + lifestyle: Scandinavian cities
Climate: Barcelona

That said, Berlin is pretty much focused on itself. It knows, that many people around the world and also city governments analyze Berlin because of its urban development status. The city problem solving evolves mostly around the unique preconditions only Berlin has. For instance, the energy/ CO2 reduction plans and environmental policies of Berlin are seen as avantgarde in the western world and are an ongoing project for the coming decades. In terms of sprawl, security, health or transportation infrastructure the US, Southamerican cities are negatively mentioned. As well as all mega-cities in India or Africa.

Fun fact: To a certain extent Berlin re-discovers the Berlin era of the 1900-1930 (Era of Einstein) . Some ideas of city planning, quality of architecture and scientific developments experience a renaissance.

These beauties are going to be re-erected:

1929, Karstadt, Art Deco Department Store


1836, Bauakademie, Architecture academy
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Last edited by Lear; Jan 24, 2019 at 4:48 PM.
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  #74  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 3:42 PM
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I think Toronto still looks up to Montreal despite "surpassing" it in a way years ago.
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  #75  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 4:15 PM
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Originally Posted by The North One View Post
I think Toronto still looks up to Montreal despite "surpassing" it in a way years ago.
Culturally in some respects, Toronto still looks up to Montreal, but also considers itself as a world class city looking more to New York and because of the film industry, Los Angeles.
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  #76  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 4:16 PM
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^^ Montreal was Canada's top dog for over a century and it shows. Toronto longed to be that sophisticated cultured place. I don't think Toronto feels that way any more. It's cultural industries have blossomed (film, television, TIFF, music, performing arts, food, design, etc.) and continues to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The North One View Post
I think Toronto still looks up to Montreal despite "surpassing" it in a way years ago.
Toronto admires Montreal but the only area where Toronto still looks up to Montreal is in its sense of self. Montreal knows what it is while Toronto is still figuring out what it's going to be.
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Last edited by isaidso; Jan 24, 2019 at 4:26 PM.
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  #77  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 4:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
In what way does Paris serve as a model for NYC? I totally understand London and even LA (kinda sorta), but not the French capital. Paris, however amazing and iconic it may be, seems quite stuck in its past--like a much bigger and more important Rome. It feels considerably less dynamic and cosmopolitan than its 'Big Four' counterparts. NYC has the High Line and Hudson Yards; London has the Eye, Shard, and Gherkin. What does Paris have that symbolizes contemporary zeitgeist?
I think that's a false stereotype about Paris, it's really quite cosmopolitan with lots of people from all around the world, has a strong and growing economy and builds a fair number of big modern buildings, just mostly outside the centre which is protected in most parts.



The Hermitage tower will be roughly the same height as the Shard once it's built.

Last edited by Jonesy55; Jan 24, 2019 at 11:28 PM.
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  #78  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 4:24 PM
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My own city, Ottawa, looks up to Montreal. We are considered Montreal's inferior little brother, but most Ottawans recognize that we should not try to be a smaller Montreal but be an improved version of ourselves. Ottawa is very much a white collar city and therefore can never be like Montreal. Furthermore, although Ottawa is quite bilingual, Ottawa will never be a francophone city like Montreal. Ottawa should look more up to Toronto as being culturally similar.
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  #79  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 4:27 PM
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chicago looks up to milwaukee. literally.

it's 80 miles north of us.

a straight shot up 94.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Jan 24, 2019 at 6:35 PM.
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  #80  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 4:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
chicago looks up to milwuakee. literally.

it's 80 miles north of us.
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