Economy Thread

[haljackey]

No one likes losing their job, unless it's one of those "In your face I quit!" videos on youtube. Sorry to hear that.

My employment dried up when the school season started. Technically I'm not unemployed since I'm a student, but it still feels kind of strange.

----

Getting back on topic, London recently announced that a new Samsung solar pannel plant will be built and will employ 200 people.
-Then PC Leader Tim Hudak came and said he would kill the deal with Samsung if elected.

[MolsonExport]

Hudak and the PCs. Pro big business (unless it is something sustainable and green)
education cuts.

No way this turkey is getting my vote. Even if he banned the beer store and allowed beer sales at corner stores (my great wish, but not at the expense of neglecting the building blocks of a great society)

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Getting back on topic, London recently announced that a new Samsung solar pannel plant will be built and will employ 200 people.
-Then PC Leader Tim Hudak came and said he would kill the deal with Samsung if elected.

Sure, the deal would bring 200 jobs to London. But at what expense to the Ontario taxpayer? The job is worth $7 billion; is the government expected to subsidize these positions to the nominal tune of $35 million each? I'm sorry, but from my point of view this is unacceptable. Taxpayers elsewhere in Ontario (and, for that matter, the couple hundred thousand taxpayers in London itself) are under no obligation to support these jobs. The city is going through a painful economic restructuring, but it will only be shooting itself in the foot by relying on government-subsidized business for job creation.

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I have become the latest Londoner to find myself jobless. The telecommunications company I have been working for since I graduated from Fanshawe eliminated four marketing positions, including mine, as a result of outsourcing. This job was not in London but I was still living in London and commuting.

Fortunately, I have virtually scored a new job with a company outside Canada. I never thought I'd see the day I could find a job in a non-English-speaking country more easily than in London, Ontario.

Sorry to hear about that. Nice of them to throw out a loyal and dedicated employee... although from what I've seen a lot of these companies seem to know that there are tons of young students or graduates desperate for a position that gives relevant experience and they are ready to pay and treat you accordingly. For May and part of June I worked in an accounting office, making half the wage of the full-time drones and being given a heavier workload (everyone gets to go home at 4:30 while I'm expected to stick around till 7:00 and complete their unfinished work). Friends in intern-esque positions reported similar conditions, one even losing money on his job. It's a tough break.

Eventually I gave up and signed on with a contractor. No relevant experience for my field (accounting), nothing more than common sense needed, but a much more positive working environment with double the pay. Back in High School I would have never believed this; my education value-added is actually negative at this point.

[MolsonExport]

Shitty days are here. With the combination of a very sluggish economy, aging population, asshat politicians (Esp. Repugnantcans in USA) bickering instead of governing, and a reorganization of the industrial structure on a scale of epic proportions in the developed economies...

...the trend over the past decade has been moderate growth in the dead-end McJobs and relatively rapid growth in highly skilled, specialized fields, with very little asides.

[north 42]

There's no way that douche Hudac is getting my vote. I don't love the liberals, but they're a way better choice than the Conservatives.

I support the green energy act. We need to get green infrastructure built up in this province, so the added cost of setting it up is well worth it. London, Windsor and the rest of Ontario need these investments and jobs.

[go_leafs_go02]

For the first time in my life, I'm considering voting Liberal. I've always voted PC or Conservative, and there's quite a few transportation issues (in London, and hamilton - where I go to school) that the Conservatives don't seem interested (being LRT in Hamilton, and the 401/402 Corridor in and around London).

Whether London has fallen off the map due to municipal, provincial or federal governments - I don't know. But man, London certainly isn't what it used to be even a few years ago.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by north 42

There's no way that douche Hudac is getting my vote. I don't love the liberals, but they're a way better choice than the Conservatives.

I support the green energy act. We need to get green infrastructure built up in this province, so the added cost of setting it up is well worth it. London, Windsor and the rest of Ontario need these investments and jobs.

I don't think we "need" any green infrastructure. If jobs are the main concern, then why is nobody thinking about the effect of higher energy costs on Ontario's manufacturing sector, and on a city like London in particular?

Though this comes from Hydro-Quebec and there is no doubt some political spin going on, in general hydro rates for large users in Ontario are uncompetitive compared to the rest of Canada, or even some major cities in the United States (Detroit, Chicago): http://www.hydroquebec.com/publicati...ces/index.html

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by north 42

There's no way that douche Hudac is getting my vote. I don't love the liberals, but they're a way better choice than the Conservatives.

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

For the first time in my life, I'm considering voting Liberal. I've always voted PC or Conservative

I was pretty sure I was goona vote PC when the election started up, but I can't see why I should vote for them after all the stupid decisions/comments they have made.

If something the past government has done is going decently, don't immediately kill it. You can slowly phase it out but instantly terminating it is downright silly, and a huge waste of money.

Right now all I know for sure is that I'm not voting NDP. The PCs have all but lost my vote, and I doubt I'll vote for the Liberals.

The Greens actually have a legit platform. There are some things I agree with, such as getting rid of the Catholic School System (since it's not fair this religious school gets public funding and others don't), and some things I don't, like 'weaning Ontario off it's nuclear addiction'. Although the nukes would be slowly phased out and not instantly killed (use them to the end of their working life).

So yeah, undecided for now. The economy seems to be the most pressing issue out there, so whoever promotes jobs and prosperity more may get my vote.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by haljackey

The Greens actually have a legit platform. There are some things I agree with, such as getting rid of the Catholic School System (since it's not fair this religious school gets public funding and others don't), and some things I don't, like 'weaning Ontario off it's nuclear addiction'. Although the nukes would be slowly phased out and not instantly killed (use them to the end of their working life).

The Green Party has no idea how difficult it will be to abolish Catholic education in Ontario. The guarantee of publicly-funded Catholic education in Ontario is entrenched in Canada's Constitution, as Ontario made it a condition of joining Confederation in 1867. Amending Canada's Constitution is a very thorny issue at the best of times (Charlottetown 1992), and I don't think enough Ontario taxpayers would support this. Taxpayers have a choice of which education system to fund, and since Catholic schools don't seem to have any problems attracting students, I think many Ontarians are happy with the way things are. I also think touching the Canadian Constitution without doing some big things for Quebec at the same time would be political suicide for any government.

I'm not saying it's right, but it's the way it is in the law and in the popular opinion of the present. That could change in the future, however.

[Symz]

Green energy is keeping some cities like Windsor afloat right now and as much as I am not a fan of the McGuinty Liberals it sounds as though the Hudak Conservstives want to drive a spike in the heart of green energy in this province and so I'm torn living in Windsor the pull feels heavy towards the Liberals and their subsidized energy. :/

[Snark]

I suspect that many here are too young to recall the Mike Harris days. Tim Hudak was a major player and policy developer in the Harris government.

That government was an unmitigated disaster for Ontario municipalities, amongst many others. I'm not telling anyone how to vote, but a Conservative government will not be a good thing for Ontario cities.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

The Green Party has no idea how difficult it will be to abolish Catholic education in Ontario. The guarantee of publicly-funded Catholic education in Ontario is entrenched in Canada's Constitution, as Ontario made it a condition of joining Confederation in 1867. Amending Canada's Constitution is a very thorny issue at the best of times (Charlottetown 1992), and I don't think enough Ontario taxpayers would support this. Taxpayers have a choice of which education system to fund, and since Catholic schools don't seem to have any problems attracting students, I think many Ontarians are happy with the way things are. I also think touching the Canadian Constitution without doing some big things for Quebec at the same time would be political suicide for any government.

I'm not saying it's right, but it's the way it is in the law and in the popular opinion of the present. That could change in the future, however.

Amending the constitution to abolish separate schools would legally be easier. It would only require the consent of Ontario and the federal government who by convention MUST carry out Ontario's will as education is exclusive provincial jurisdiction. Newfoundland and Quebec abolished their religious schools to little fanfare in the late 1990s with ease.

Economically it makes sense, why have two boards, two sets of bureaucracy, all sorts of duplicate management that would run more efficiently by one.

It's the political implications that make it impossible. John Tory ran on funding all religious schools and made out poorly in 2007. The great PC dynasty of Ontario was ended because they extended funding to Catholic schools to OAC. Religion & Education are a deadly mix for any provincial party, the smart parties stay clear of it.

IMO they should be absorbed by the public system, just any party wanting to do that couldn't say a word to the electorate, or catholic population, who would lynch them for doing it!

[MolsonExport]

^about a decade or so ago, Quebec abolished the catholic-protestant public school system, and replaced it with one structured along language lines.

[Highinthesky]

No mention of the news that while the unemployment rate across the country went up with the last report the rate in London went down? Should have dropped even more but there was also a significant increase in new works in London.

[MolsonExport]

The ford plant in Talbotville is now closed, as of 51 minutes ago.
http://www.cjbk.com/LocalNews/Story.aspx?ID=1538201


1200 more out of work.

[Kokkei Mizu]

As I read in a LFP article the other day, it's not 1200 people out of work. A couple of hundred are sticking around to decommission the plant, and some are taking early retirement. Who knows how many are actually going to be "unemployed" after today.

[MolsonExport]

Last car rolls off line
By NORMAN DE BONO, The London Free Press

It truly is the end of the line.

The last car rolled off the line at Ford of Canadas StM Thomas assembly plant at about 11:30 this morning, surrounded by about 600 workers, retirees and others who came in just to see a bit of history.

"It is sad, very sad," said Simon Jacco, who retired in 2007 but wanted to be there at the end.

"I just wanted to be here for the last time. This place paid my bills, put kids through college, it was great. I feel lucky I was here but I feel for these guys who are out of work."

The line needed only about 300 for the last day, but more than double were on site, just watching, added Craig Cormier, a welder.

"St. Thomas will be devastated. It is awful, I just wanted to be here to shake some hands."

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2.../18690301.html

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by Kokkei Mizu

As I read in a LFP article the other day, it's not 1200 people out of work. A couple of hundred are sticking around to decommission the plant, and some are taking early retirement. Who knows how many are actually going to be "unemployed" after today.

Actually that number could in fact be higher. Any company that makes components or performs contracted services for the plant are in bad shape with the loss of either their only client or one of their clients.

Some put the figure as high as 3000. Sad day, but we all saw this coming. Ford did give a lot of notice.

[Wharn]

iWell dammit, there goes the Crown Victoria. I wonder why Ford chose not to produce the new Taurus (large car replacing the Crown Vic) in St. Thomas? I have a feeling it may have been a combination of higher input prices (electricity, labour) and pressure from the American government to "keep jobs in the USA", or some garbage like that.

[haljackey]

Ford is an American company, so this may have influenced the decision to close the plant in some form.

Also note that this assembly plant is kind of old by 'modern' standards and would cost a boatload to upgrade. It probably wasn't cost-effective back when Ford was making their minds up as to what to do with the plant.