Washington DC: Rail transit

[OhioGuy]

This is a very rudimentary map as I don't have any special programs beyond what Google maps has to offer. Why couldn't they make a new station adjacent to the current Rosslyn station for the separated blue line to use? North of that, the line could rise up from underground as it approaches the river and cross over on a new bridge. On the Georgetown side, it could enter into a hillside tunnel, thereby eliminating the need to go extra deep to get across the river and therefore avoid having overly deep stations in Georgetown.

[paytonc]

Originally Posted by OhioGuy

On the Georgetown side, it could enter into a hillside tunnel, thereby eliminating the need to go extra deep to get across the river and therefore avoid having overly deep stations in Georgetown.

I'm not qualified to speak extensively about geology or construction technique, but a few comments:
- huge Metro trains can't take L-shaped curves like that, certainly not quietly
- that L adds a lot of additional track length
- apparently, much of the cost of boring tunnels is getting the TBM on site; once it's there, the marginal cost of tunneling declines significantly
- similarly, a deep tunnel vs. a shallow tunnel doesn't save much money unless you're doing cut & cover, which will not happen in Georgetown
- the Rosslyn station will have to be pretty deep anyhow

The Red Line's Connecticut Avenue line was to have a Bloor-like* bridge across Rock Creek, but the NPS vetoed that.

* Toronto's shallow, east-west Bloor subway crosses the deep Don Valley ravine on a bridge whose lower deck actually predated the subway. http://transit.toronto.on.ca/subway/5104.shtml

[ardecila]

If you need to have stations immediately next to the river, a bridge is by far the most efficient option, since it allows you to have shallow tunnels on either side. That's why Moscow, Paris, and Rome all send their subways over the river on a bridge instead of underneath in a tunnel. Here in DC, it makes sense to have a station right on the north bank of the Potomac to best serve Georgetown University.

Deep tunnels vs. shallow tunnels doesn't make much of a difference cost-wise, but excavating stations in a deep tunnel is exponentially more expensive because you have to mine a cavern instead of digging with cut-and-cover (even if the subway tunnels themselves are bored, stations are almost always cut-and-cover).

Actually, looking at the topography in Google Earth, I don't think it's possible to cross the Potomac into Georgetown without a bridge, unless WMATA builds an all-new very deep-level stations at Rosslyn and Georgetown U.

[OhioGuy]

Originally Posted by paytonc

I'm not qualified to speak extensively about geology or construction technique, but a few comments:
- huge Metro trains can't take L-shaped curves like that, certainly not quietly

I don't know if the curve would need to be any more severe than the curves on the orange/blue line between McPherson Square & Metro Center and Smithsonian & L'Enfant Plaza.

- the Rosslyn station will have to be pretty deep anyhow

Yeah, I'm not sure how to get the blue line across the orange line at Rosslyn unless it's possible to cross above the line to the south of the current station and then build the new station directly adjacent to the west. It would be somewhat like the red & blue line subways in Chicago which run side by side through the loop and have a one block underground passage way between the two lines at Jackson.

Ultimately I think it would be vastly more preferable to build a bridge and avoid going overly deep to cross to river. Deep stations suck and they'd be immensely deep in Georgetown.

[paytonc]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Actually, looking at the topography in Google Earth, I don't think it's possible to cross the Potomac into Georgetown without a bridge, unless WMATA builds an all-new very deep-level stations at Rosslyn and Georgetown U.

That's assuming that a station at GU is demanded. The neighborhood there certainly doesn't seem like it wants anything other than to be left alone.

A tunnel cutting diagonally across the river towards M & Wisc actually goes under shallower water than the existing tunnel (only about 20' deep, according to the nautical charts). M Street in Georgetown is about 60' high, lower in elevation than the existing Rosslyn station entrance at ~80'.

[ardecila]

If you have access to nautical charts, I'll let you win...

[202_Cyclist]

Process to start second part of Dulles rail line delayed

By Dana Hedgpeth
April 18, 2012
The Washington Post

"The process to start building the second phase of Metro’s new Silver Line is on hold while Loudoun County officials decide whether to support the project, according to the authority overseeing construction.

The request for contractors to submit price quotes was supposed to go out in early March, with bids being accepted by the end of the year and a winner being chosen by early 2013, according to officials at the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority. Construction would start in the spring of 2013 and the project would take four to five years to complete.

But the requests haven’t gone out, as MWAA waits to see if Loudoun is in or out on the deal..."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...fRT_story.html

[202_Cyclist]

The Senate Appropriations Committee approved the Fiscal Year 2013 Transportation, Housin, and Urban development appropriations bill. This has $150M for safety improvements for metro.

"Transit Safety: $150 million is provided for grants to the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority (WMATA) for capital investments. The bill includes language requiring WMATA to place the highest priority on projects that will improve the safety of the transit system."

http://www.appropriations.senate.gov...1-1849c55d58e0

Money for Metro advances in U.S. Senate

By Dana Hedgpeth
Washington Post
4/19/2012

"The Senate transportation and housing committee has passed an appropriations bill that would give Metro $150 million for safety.

This is the fourth installment of federal funds dedicated to help Metro improve its safety measures and comes three years after the deadly rail crash on the Red Line that killed nine people. Federal legislation passed in 2008 authorizes $1.5 billion in federal funds over 10 years to repair Metro’s aging and deteriorating system..."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...KmTT_blog.html

[202_Cyclist]

Here are some renderings (Via the Sand Box John blog) of the proposed metro station at Dulles airport on the Silver Line. Because of local Loudoun County and Virginia politics, however, it is still unclear if the Silver Line will reach Dulles.

Refined Locally Preferred Alternative Section 106 Determination of Effects Report: Historic Architecture
http://www.dullesmetro.com/documents...17-Nov-11).pdf

[202_Cyclist]

Purple Line funding uncertain with failure of Maryland gas tax hike

By Katherine Shaver
May 19, 2012
Washington Post

"Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley (D) has long promised that the Washington suburbs and Baltimore would each get a new light-rail line and that the Purple Line and its counterpart in Charm City could be built at the same time.


Image courtesy of the Washington Post.

But state financial documents recently submitted to the Federal Transit Administration show that O’Malley’s promise, to the state’s most populous regions, will be difficult — if not impossible — to keep.

The General Assembly’s recent rejection of the governor’s proposed gas tax hike makes it increasingly likely that the state will have to choose to build one of the lines before the other, state and local transportation officials say. With no new tax revenue dedicated to transportation, finding the money for even one of the light-rail lines will be difficult, the officials say..."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...3aU_story.html

[ardecila]

Tough choice. The Red Line fills in the crucial east-west link in Baltimore's system, while the Purple Line has less regional importance for DC. On the other hand, DC has way more growth potential.

I'm guessing O'Malley will push for the Red Line first, both for environmental justice reasons (West Baltimore is poor and transit-dependent) and because MoCo just got the ICC for orbital traffic.

[202_Cyclist]

Metro’s Silver Line expansion plan draws scores of speakers to Loudoun meeting

By Caitlin Gibson
June 4, 2012
Washington Post

"At a packed public input session to address the extension of Metro’s planned Silver Line into Loudoun County, more than two dozen speakers made impassioned pleas before the Loudoun County Board of Supervisors in just the first hour of a meeting that promised to run late into the night.

Among the early speakers, residents and business leaders on both sides of the debate were equally represented, underscoring the community’s deep divide over the project.

An opening lineup of about a dozen people urged the board to avoid the costly project, recalling campaign promises of fiscal responsibility. They were followed by an equal number of supporters, who appealed to supervisors to consider the Silver Line’s potential impact on Loudoun’s commercial economy..."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...y.html?hpid=z5

[OhioGuy]

Airports authority drops labor agreement for Silver Line project

Washington Post
By Dana Hedgpeth, Wednesday, June 6, 12:22 PM

The regional authority overseeing the $6 billion construction of Metro’s new Silver Line voted 11 to 1 Wednesday to drop a controversial labor agreement for the second phase of the project.

The vote by the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority follows threats by Virginia Gov. Robert F. McDonnell (R) to withhold $150 million in funding for the line if if MWAA did not drop the the project labor agreement, or PLA, from the second phase of construction.

Bob Brown, a director appointed by the federal government, was the only board member who voted against dropping the PLA. Board member Denny Martire, who is from Virginia and works for a pro-union labor group, said Virginia’s leaders were “holding a gun” to MWAA to change its previously approved labor deal. But like the majority of the board, Martire voted for the change, in hopes the project would move forward.

The MWAA board’s latest vote is important because it could impact whether Loudoun County will support the project’s second phase.

Loudoun is expected to contribute more than $200 million toward the construction cost of the project, plus $11 million in its first year of operation to run the system. But its supervisors have expressed concern about the project’s cost. They are expected to vote by July 4.

MWAA Board Chairman Michael Curto said he hoped the vote would “provide the impetus for Loudoun to vote” in favor of the second part of the Silver Line.

Political and business leaders in Fairfax County cheered MWAA’s decision. Several said they were also more optimistic now that Virginia would contribute more money and that Loudoun County’s Board of Supervisors would be persuaded to continue with the project.

“I am very, very pleased,” Fairfax County Board of Supervisors Chairman Sharon S. Bulova (D) said Wednesday. “Hopefully, this will be the beginning of a domino effect, where we’re then going to be assured that $150 million is coming from the state for Dulles Rail. And then the next is, I hope that Loudoun County will feel they can go forward.”

Mark S. Ingrao, president of the Greater Reston Chamber of Commerce, said the timing couldn’t be better to help tilt Loudoun County’s Board of Supervisors in favor of the project. The Reston Chamber has conducted surveys showing the business community there is overwhelmingly supportive of extending the rail into Loudoun County.

“We’re really thrilled about this,” Ingrao said Wednesday. “So now the Loudoun County Board is the last domino to fall, and they don’t have any other obstacles to point to. They’ve been saying, ‘Oh, there’s a PLA,’ but that’s gone. So now all they have is their vote.”

[202_Cyclist]

I strongly support investing in transit and I support Phase I of the Silver Line, as well as extending it to Dulles but I think the Silver Line should end at Dulles. It is going to cost several billion dollars more to extend it into Loudoun County to have a couple of stations with 2,000-parking garages and medium-density suburban town centers around the station.

End the Silver Line at Dulles and using the savings to build light rail on the Route 28 corridor, connecting I-66, Route 7, Dulles, and the significant number of jobs along this corridor.

[ardecila]

It's such a shame that Virginia ripped out the W&OD. It would be the perfect route for a commuter line running into Union Station.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Whats the W&OD?

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by ardecila

It's such a shame that Virginia ripped out the W&OD. It would be the perfect route for a commuter line running into Union Station.

Perhaps. It certainly would have put the Silver Line closer to the Reston Town Center but the W&OD is really a great recreational trail that is used by thousands, maybe tens of thousands or cyclists, joggers, and others every weekend.

It might have made parts of the Silver Line extension much easier but multi-use recreational trails like this make an area more enjoyable and liveable.

[ardecila]

Seriously? How long have you been following the Purple Line debacle?

You know as well as I do that railroads and trails can co-exist.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Seriously? How long have you been following the Purple Line debacle?

You know as well as I do that railroads and trails can co-exist.

You're probably right that the Right-of-Way is wide enough to accommodate both but other than through Reston, I don't know how much benefit it would result in. The airport authority, MWAA, owns the Dulles Toll Road and it is mostly pancake-flat. Additionally, the W&OD is about two miles south of Tysons. A more convenient connection to the Reston Town Center, however, would have been desirable.

[ardecila]

A commuter rail system (with grade crossings) could probably have been built along the W&OD out to Leesburg for the same price as the Silver Line, with a Dulles spur included. This would allow for Amtrak service to run through to Dulles, and 30-minute VRE commuter service would be cheaper to run than the equivalent Metro service, with fewer intermediate stops and a faster overall travel time.

The tricky part is Tysons - it would not get one-seat service to Dulles, but Pentagon and Crystal City would have. Tysons could be addressed by a short Metro extension from West Falls Church under Tysons to a W&OD transfer in downtown Vienna.

Why is the W&OD superior? It could generate TOD at every station, unlike the freeway stations which will struggle to build a pedestrian environment because of the unpleasantness around each station.