Dead Malls of Canada

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Les Galeries de Hull, which is just north of downtown Hull in central Gatineau. It has IMO a great location. But it's been hit hard by the closure of the Sears store, and it's a very small mall so its doesn't have as much to fall back on.

https://www.google.com/search?q=les+...h=722&dpr=1.25

doesn't look good when Pharmaprix/Ardene and some fitness centre are designated anchors.

[zahav]

Abderdeen Centre is not even close to a dead mall, it is probably the most popular of the Asian malls in the Vancouver area. They have tons of stuff. Granted I haven't been since COVID, but just prior to that it was busy, and especially the food court (not sure when there was only two vendors, maybe 2003?).

International Village is different. The retail itself is a bizarre mix, but the main floor is busy with a hodgepog of services, restaurants, kiosks. The 2nd floor is a food court that has steady turnover of spaces, and then the "dead" area that has now been leased to some educational services, but not traditional retail really there in many many years. Then 3rd floor is the the theatre. So overall it certainly isn't dead as a mall, but the traditional "retail" component has been gone since the early 2000s

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

doesn't look good when Pharmaprix/Ardene and some fitness centre are designated anchors.

Yes, the future does not seem too bright for Les Galeries de Hull.

Which is too bad because as malls go, it's not too bad looking on the inside. It's built on two levels in the "arcade" style that you have in certain British and Australian cities.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

doesn't look good when Pharmaprix/Ardene and some fitness centre are designated anchors.

This is where a bunch of Winnipeg malls are headed. From being anchored by the likes of Sears/Eaton's/The Bay/Woolco to being anchored by some combination of Canadian Tire, GoodLife, a supermarket, Winners, etc.

It seems to me that really only one mall's future is at least somewhat assured (Polo Park). The rest are on pretty shaky ground.

Even 10 years ago suburban mall retail seemed like such a sure bet, and with Target headed to Canada at the time it looked like it was going to get stronger. The bottom is starting to fall out pretty quickly. However, unlike with downtown retail districts I don't think there will be too many laments for the demise of shopping malls.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by esquire

Even 10 years ago suburban mall retail seemed like such a sure bet, and with Target headed to Canada at the time it looked like it was going to get stronger. The bottom is starting to fall out pretty quickly. However, unlike with downtown retail districts I don't think there will be too many laments for the demise of shopping malls.

What I'm hoping is that malls are redeveloped into moderate to high-density housing.

They're serviced for it. The plots of land can accommodate a fair number of units. They're usually well served by transit and act as nodes in those systems.

Since there will be a glut of commercial space anyway, might as well rezone them.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by zahav

Abderdeen Centre is not even close to a dead mall, it is probably the most popular of the Asian malls in the Vancouver area. They have tons of stuff. Granted I haven't been since COVID, but just prior to that it was busy, and especially the food court (not sure when there was only two vendors, maybe 2003?)..

Yeah, but does the mall owner still hold the franchises to a lot of the stores located there?

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by esquire

However, unlike with downtown retail districts I don't think there will be too many laments for the demise of shopping malls.

That is a tragedy because we SHOULD lament their demise.

Not that I will miss the mall's sterile environments, lack of character, and corporate controlled mandate but it is an an obscene waste of valuable land and total disregard for out physical environment and leaves a scar on our urban fabric.

Those shoppers haven't disappeared but just moved to our big box stores on the outer suburbs. We are destroying thousands of hectares of productive land strictly to enhance our shopping desires even though the huge malls already existing die off. It lays bear our hypocritical supposed environmental sensibilities which we are more than willing to disregard for the sake of 5% on jeans.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes, the future does not seem too bright for Les Galeries de Hull.

Which is too bad because as malls go, it's not too bad looking on the inside. It's built on two levels in the "arcade" style that you have in certain British and Australian cities.

Does Gatineau have another (high end) mall?

Edit. Of course it does. https://www.lespromenades.com/en/inf...ractive-map/#/
anchored by Costco, the Bay, and Simons

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Does Gatineau have another (high end) mall?

Edit. Of course it does. https://www.lespromenades.com/en/inf...ractive-map/#/
anchored by Costco, the Bay, and Simons

Quite a success story, 10 years ago that was a dirt mall.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Les Galeries de Hull, which is just north of downtown Hull in central Gatineau. It has IMO a great location. But it's been hit hard by the closure of the Sears store, and it's a very small mall so its doesn't have as much to fall back on.

https://www.google.com/search?q=les+...h=722&dpr=1.25

The book store they are referring to moved to an area dominated by car dealerships. The location was so bad they survived less than a year. Too bad because it’s now practically impossible to find a store that has a large selection of french-language magazines in Ottawa-Gatineau. I used to buy some history, travel and geopolitics magazines on the spot and I am no longer able to do that and I would have to subscribe now.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Yeah. It's back a way but it's here. The first Canadian purpose-built dead mall.

because it is a strata mall, they are always risky and dead. Aberdeen mall has a normal mall and they built an extension which was a strata mall, the strata side is dead.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by wave46

What I'm hoping is that malls are redeveloped into moderate to high-density housing.

They're serviced for it. The plots of land can accommodate a fair number of units. They're usually well served by transit and act as nodes in those systems.

Since there will be a glut of commercial space anyway, might as well rezone them.

It does seem to me that this will be a popular option for mall owners, especially when you consider that malls tend to be, on average, around 35-50 years old and typically in fairly established suburban areas where large parcels of land suitable for redevelopment can be hard to come by.

Century Park in Edmonton is a good example of a prairie-region suburban mall that has been totally redeveloped into a housing district. I think Bonnie Doon in Edmonton and Polo Park in Winnipeg are examples of suburban malls that will at some point have significant residential components added to them. Even some downtown malls are going in that direction... Jackson Square in Hamilton and Portage Place in Winnipeg are moving in the direction of becoming predominantly residential/office complexes. So the trend is pretty clear.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes, the future does not seem too bright for Les Galeries de Hull.

Which is too bad because as malls go, it's not too bad looking on the inside. It's built on two levels in the "arcade" style that you have in certain British and Australian cities.

Now that I think of it, Galeries de Hull had Sears, but did it ever have a second anchor? Looking at the mall, I don't see how it could have had a second department store on the other end.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Does Gatineau have another (high end) mall?

Edit. Of course it does. https://www.lespromenades.com/en/inf...ractive-map/#/
anchored by Costco, the Bay, and Simons

Originally Posted by acottawa

Quite a success story, 10 years ago that was a dirt mall.

I would argue that today, it's the second best mall in the region. At the very least, a solid third fore those who rank Bayshore above it.

It's come a long way from just a hang-out for teenagers at lunch time and when skipping classes.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I would argue that today, it's the second best mall in the region. At the very least, a solid third fore those who rank Bayshore above it.

It's come a long way from just a hang-out for teenagers at lunch time and when skipping classes.

AFAIK it is unusual for a mall to have a Costco attached to it with an indoor connection. At least, I haven’t seen that anywhere else yet.

[MolsonExport]

^especially since the Costco moved there relatively recently, from another location in Gatineau.

Most Costcos attached to malls were legacy Costcos from the Price Club days. In Quebec, many "Club Price" outlets had taken over defunct Woolco's.

Anybody remember the old Woolco in Kirkland (Quebec)?

internationalmetropolis.

Of course they recruited Alan Thicke for their ads:
• Video Link

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I would argue that today, it's the second best mall in the region. At the very least, a solid third fore those who rank Bayshore above it.

It's come a long way from just a hang-out for teenagers at lunch time and when skipping classes.

Correct. I have lived near that mall for a while and saw its worst years.

I never thought it would become a quasi-upscale shopping centre, though I also knew the market (primary and secondary) was primed for one, and only needed someone with some vision to make it happen.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Now that I think of it, Galeries de Hull had Sears, but did it ever have a second anchor? Looking at the mall, I don't see how it could have had a second department store on the other end.

I think there may have been one. The far end with the Pharmaprix and food court and marketplace was not part of the original mall IIRC. I remember when the redid that section.

[WhipperSnapper]

Most of the malls I knew in Toronto never lived up to their potential. They survived solely on an anchor. The rest of the brand names lasted no more than a lease period replaced by independents selling cheap goods. The anchor eventually moved on or disappeared entirely. (Consumers Distributing anchored many of these malls) Some still continue to languish today. The few malls that did live up to their potential were seeing record sales before the coronavirus.

I don't feel malls are going away in the same sense that brick and mortar is going away. Malls weren't a good bet for anyone but the largest developers 30 years ago and chain brands came and went with the passing trends since they were founded.

Online is doing more business than, the precursor, catalog could ever dream. It's coming at a cost. Delivery costs and/or times have increased and quality has gone way down. So much of it is now those independent dealers selling cheap goods like in the last gasp power centre malls.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by le calmar

The book store they are referring to moved to an area dominated by car dealerships. The location was so bad they survived less than a year. Too bad because it’s now practically impossible to find a store that has a large selection of french-language magazines in Ottawa-Gatineau. I used to buy some history, travel and geopolitics magazines on the spot and I am no longer able to do that and I would have to subscribe now.

You should try Librairie du Soleil which has locations in the Byward Market in Ottawa and on St-Raymond in Gatineau.

I generally went to Réflexion but I did go to Soleil for kids' school books occasionally and it seemed similar to me.

You can also try Archambault and Renaud-Bray at Les Promenades for magazines. Costco in Gatineau also has some that you won't necessarily find in a dépanneur or a supermarket.