Vancouver Downtown Streetcar | Proposed

[lokyin]

Part of the justification for ridership should be its future potential too... i.e. whether West 6th can be densified with redevelopment potential for higher-density residential.

Streetcar is less about nodes/hubs like skytrains/subways, and more about a medium demand for the more frequent less-distant stops... and a connection to Skytrain would have to be necessary (which would clearly be Main St. Science World) for the 1st phase.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by lokyin

Part of the justification for ridership should be its future potential too... i.e. whether West 6th can be densified with redevelopment potential for higher-density residential.

Streetcar is less about nodes/hubs like skytrains/subways, and more about a medium demand for the more frequent less-distant stops... and a connection to Skytrain would have to be necessary (which would clearly be Main St. Science World) for the 1st phase.

No problem there - Alder and Moberly are bound to have plenty of redevelopment under the False Creek South Plan, and west OV is still unfinished.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

I think your characterization of the Olympic line as being horribly underused is horribly inaccurate.

It only existed for 60 days, yet carried over 550,000 passengers. It made 13,000 one way trips. That's an average of more than 42 people per trip, over the whole 60 days.

For comparison, the 10, which travels down Granville and is the only Articulated bus to cross the Granville Street bridge, has an average bi-directional load of 30 people.

Unfair comparison between the Olympic line during the Olympics and other routes not during the Olympics. All routes had abnormally high volumes during the Olympics, particularly lines that actually serviced Olympic sites.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Unfair comparison between the Olympic line during the Olympics and other routes not during the Olympics. All routes had abnormally high volumes during the Olympics, particularly lines that actually serviced Olympic sites.

Just sayin'....

Transit ridership beats 2010 Olympics record: TransLink

TransLink is touting its latest ridership numbers, saying it set a new record in October.

There were 39.65 million boardings on transit last month, covering bus, SkyTrain, HandyDART, SeaBus and West Coast Express.

This number beat the stand-alone record of 39.2 million boardings that happened in February 2010 during the Winter Olympics.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by lokyin

... and a connection to Skytrain would have to be necessary (which would clearly be Main St. Science World) for the 1st phase.

Main Street for Expo, OV for Canada Line, and Arbutus for the M-Line. That gives the streetcar line excellent connectivity with rapid transit and allowing it to be a more local line in between.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Jebby

Main Street for Expo, OV for Canada Line, and Arbutus for the M-Line. That gives the streetcar line excellent connectivity with rapid transit and allowing it to be a more local line in between.

Yup - good feeder/distributor line along the south side of False Creek (Granville Island especially) as well as over to Chinatown and Gastown.

[fredinno]

How much better would it be than the B-line that would likely be used to test the route's usefulness?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

How much better would it be than the B-line that would likely be used to test the route's usefulness?

Try Google Earthing the route if you can't visit in person. Arbutus to Fir is a prexisting off-road ROW (very few conflicts), Fir to Granville Island is quiet side streets (ditto), Granville Island to Cambie is an ex-railway trench (no red lights), and Cambie to Ontario is a preexisting median down more quiet side streets. It's not just prettier and bigger than a bus, it should actually work better, since it can run with higher speeds and frequency with minimal disruption of the street or traffic jams.

The only problem comes at Ontario-Quebec, because the New Urbanism groupthink at City Hall has the tram running in mixed traffic.

[GenWhy?]

You've seen finalized plans for that 1 city block?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

You've seen finalized plans for that 1 city block?

The street itself is finished for anybody to see it; as Warren noted in the OV thread, the wide curbs prohibit a rail ROW... might have been able to squeeze one in without the curbs and the bike lane, but that's not happening now. And the NEFC design team has literally stated their intention for the Quebec Street segment to be mixed-traffic.

I highly doubt they'd build and plan for one thing and then do another.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

...the wide curbs prohibit a rail ROW...

Wide curbs can be changed in just the same way that a ROW can be installed. Curbs may literally be "written in stone" but they're not immutable.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Wide curbs can be changed in just the same way that a ROW can be installed. Curbs may literally be "written in stone" but they're not immutable.

True. But there's very little point in ripping up a curb for an ROW just one block long - it's gotta come with one down Quebec as well, which like I said doesn't seem to be happening.

[officedweller]

Here you go.

This is from a Sept 2006 Streetcar Project Update.
It mentions the mixed running on Quebec and Columbia.

https://council.vancouver.ca/20061005/documents/pe5.pdf


https://council.vancouver.ca/20061005/documents/pe5.pdf

Appendix E has renderings:


https://council.vancouver.ca/20061005/documents/pe5.pdf

[GenWhy?]

Sorry, thought we were talking about SEFC not NEFC, even then, that 2006 doc says pretty much north of Union it mixes with traffic on one-way streets. It's 13 years old too. And most streets in Gastown are currenty being reviewed for "traffic-lite" or no car designs.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

The street itself is finished for anybody to see it; as Warren noted in the OV thread, the wide curbs prohibit a rail ROW... might have been able to squeeze one in without the curbs and the bike lane, but that's not happening now. And the NEFC design team has literally stated their intention for the Quebec Street segment to be mixed-traffic.

I highly doubt they'd build and plan for one thing and then do another.

Well, it's specifically the corner of Quebec and 1st that looks like a tight turn. Quebec itself is plenty wide to accommodate a streetcar.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Most definitely. But again, if none of that wideness is set aside, there's no point.

Originally Posted by officedweller

Here you go.

This is from a Sept 2006 Streetcar Project Update.
It mentions the mixed running on Quebec and Columbia.

Hey, thanks. Though I seriously hope these numbers are as dated as the report - 18kph average is even worse than Surrey's streetcar!

[officedweller]

Yeah, the 2006 Project Report also predates the demolition of the viaducts (where the maintenance facility was going to be)
- so lots of design issues are bound to change.
- but I don't think there has been a comprehensive update since then, as it's been in limbo.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Try Google Earthing the route if you can't visit in person. Arbutus to Fir is a prexisting off-road ROW (very few conflicts), Fir to Granville Island is quiet side streets (ditto), Granville Island to Cambie is an ex-railway trench (no red lights), and Cambie to Ontario is a preexisting median down more quiet side streets. It's not just prettier and bigger than a bus, it should actually work better, since it can run with higher speeds and frequency with minimal disruption of the street or traffic jams.

The only problem comes at Ontario-Quebec, because the New Urbanism groupthink at City Hall has the tram running in mixed traffic.

But only the Olympic Line segment is truly separated in any real way. The rest of the line is mixed-traffic, or is on a median that still has all the same at-grade crossings as the road it parallels (W1st Ave, Quebec...)

So it's still probably not much faster on most of the route as a Articulated Trolley bus.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Most definitely. But again, if none of that wideness is set aside, there's no point.



Hey, thanks. Though I seriously hope these numbers are as dated as the report - 18kph average is even worse than Surrey's streetcar!

It's downtown.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

But only the Olympic Line segment is truly separated in any real way. The rest of the line is mixed-traffic, or is on a median that still has all the same at-grade crossings as the road it parallels (W1st Ave, Quebec...)

So it's still probably not much faster on most of the route as a Articulated Trolley bus.

Originally Posted by fredinno

It's downtown.

Which is why any downtown route needs a couple of lane closures (or street closures) to go with it.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Which is why any downtown route needs a couple of lane closures (or street closures) to go with it.

where and how would you do that? Sounds like a tall order and a tough job if you ask me.
Around Georgia. How? Around Pacific Blvd. How? Just asking. Thank you.