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  #10921  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2018, 1:22 AM
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  #10922  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2018, 1:44 AM
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..

Last edited by Blader; Feb 14, 2018 at 2:18 AM.
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  #10923  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2018, 2:22 AM
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..
median age , Canada 40.6 , Quebec 42.2 , it's not that bad.
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  #10924  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2018, 3:03 AM
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Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal View Post
median age , Canada 40.6 , Quebec 42.2 , it's not that bad.
Sorry, I was very unhappy with myself and my post which I subsequently deleted.
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  #10925  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2018, 5:57 AM
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Originally Posted by geotag277 View Post
Will be a big milestone when Regina + Saskatoon > Winnipeg.
I sort of thought of this the last time I made a post about Canada population growth in the next 50 years.
I noticed that in the 1970's Winnipeg was 3 times the size of Saskatoon, now it's 2.5x the size. We could see Saskatoon half Winnipeg size in a couple decades.

Now I sort of think of Saskatoon/Regina combined as about the equivalent of a Winnipeg;
Regina has the IGF sized stadium & Saskatoon has the MTS sized arena.
Regina has the U of W sized University, Saskatoon has the U of M equivalent University.
Winnipeg & Regina have similar Legislature buildings. Winnipeg has Osbourne village area, Saskatoon has Broadway Ave district.


Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Regina and Saskatoon feel bigger than St. John's. I don't know what it is, but to me Regina in particular feels many times larger than it is. I guess it just has some of those 'big city' trappings like skyscrapers, a big stadium, the Legislature, the expressways, etc. If you didn't know anything about the city and you just arrived at the airport, you might think you were in a much bigger city than one with 250,000 people. Regina's actual size would become obvious after a day or two, but at first glance it looks big.

It's sort of the opposite with St. John's. It doesn't look that big at first, but the more time you spend there the more you realize it's a legit city. It's a bit more European in that regard, it doesn't knock you out with a soaring skyline but it has a rich cultural life that distinguishes it as a city.
I've always thought of Regina having a bigger city feel as compared to other cities, but only to a certain degree, my frame of reference with Calgary feeling way bigger than it's population may have something to do with minimizing that feeling too though.

It wasn't until going to cities like Halifax and Victoria that I felt Regina was their similar sized equivalents & that I realized Regina definitely feels almost twice as big as its population would let on.

Saskatoon has sort of stealthily taken more of the big city role for Saskatchewan in the last decade or so. It's the city I usually go to for clubs & bars, particularly gay bars, with friends in Saskatchewan. Saskatoon has more of a bohemian feel with Fringe festival & Nuit Blanche plus cool music & food scene & it gets most of the national/international concerts.

Regina & Saskatoon get an even split between traveling Broadway shows on tour plus sports events like World Juniors, Brier, Memorial cups, Figure skating championships, PGA golf etc.

Regina and Saskatoon both have growth plans for half a million each in next couple decades. Saskatoon is developing its Bus Rapid Transit system within a few years time.
Saskatoon's population growth in particular, will likely surpass Windsor, Ontario population by the next census, over take St.Cath/Niagara the census decade later, & will likely over take population of each Victoria and Newfoundland/Laborador decade after that to be a city Halifax size.
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  #10926  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2018, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by geotag277 View Post
Will be a big milestone when Regina + Saskatoon > Winnipeg.
....in 2077
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  #10927  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2018, 1:17 PM
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Regina certainly feels bigger than 10 years ago. Not only do we have 4 new high rises, but the downtown food scene has exploded.

Saskatoon feels much much bigger than 10 years ago. The new high rises are just coming now, but the transformation of downtown and Riversdale is staggering
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  #10928  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2018, 4:48 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
(roughly speaking)
A=B+C
B=C+D
C=D+E

Toronto = Montreal + Vancouver = 6709546 (>Toronto = 6346088)
Montreal = Vancouver + Calgary = 4060103 (<Montreal = 4138254)
Vancouver = Calgary + Edmonton = 2900786 (>Vancouver = 2571262)

The pattern breaks down afterwards, the largest three still stand above the next three in the pack.

maybe if Okotoks was throw in for good measure...
I may of posted some of that city comparison math on here before..It's funny and fascinating when you break down the comparisons in a logical way like that. It goes to show you how much of a beast Toronto is becoming. Heck, if Canada was using American style figures, it would no doubt be "Toronto land" and include Hamilton.

I always found that both Kingston and Sudbury to have some size, and it's hard to get my head around that Ottawa is going on ten times their respective sizes. I actually find Ottawa to be a comfortable size and not all that big to get around in.It goes to show you that we tend to stick to our respective neighbourhoods, no matter how large the city we are living in is. Even London, where you live, has some largeness to it, and Ottawa doesn't feel like it's almost 3x..Again, it's because aside from events or specialty stuff, we tend to stick to our little areas on a daily basis. And OMG! Just read the stats..Is our Nation's capital really *gasp* (+/-) an Okotoks away from Edmonton, and a Red Deere away from Calgary now??...Time to get that Hi Tech engine started up again Ottawa..Get with it!

On another note, the geek in me just went to this American list of metro areas to see how many were roughly the same size as Ottawa, Edmonton, and Calgary..I basically counted their 36-47..I kind of expected there to be 30 in that range and not only a dozen or so. They definitely have a lot of Metros between 500,000 -1,000,000 though. just not all that much between 1.2-1.8.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...#United_States

Last edited by Razor; Feb 14, 2018 at 5:24 PM.
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  #10929  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2018, 7:55 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
The built up part of the city is a small portion of that, though. Just look at St. John's in Google Maps and you'll see that much of the urban area is green, i.e. undeveloped. It's much the same as with Halifax, where you can drive 45 minutes out of the city and be in the middle of seemingly nowhere, but you're still in the Halifax Regional Municipality.
Metro areas have more to do with economies and commuting patterns than contiguous settlement though. Along the East Coast there were a lot of small towns and villages served by rural roads. Over time the old settlements became bedroom communities and in many cases subdivisions were spread out along the existing roads. Waterfront property and plentiful water sources encourage this too. These areas are urban in an economic sense because they depend on urban jobs rather than traditional primary industries.

Someone who is looking exclusively for a high-rise CBD or things like stadiums or giant legislature buildings to measure the apparent size of cities is taking North American or Prairie norms and applying them elsewhere while ignoring a bunch of other things. There are big cities that have very few tall buildings or monumental buildings, wide boulevards, etc.

I haven't been to Saskatoon or Regina but to me Calgary doesn't feel like a giant city. I found its inner city type areas and urban neighbourhoods to be smaller than expected. It does have impressive office towers.
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  #10930  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2018, 8:05 PM
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I haven't been to Saskatoon or Regina but to me Calgary doesn't feel like a giant city. I found its inner city type areas and urban neighbourhoods to be smaller than expected. It does have impressive office towers.
If you dropped an alien into downtown Calgary for two hours, and then into downtown Halifax for the same amount of time, they'd have no way to tell what would be the larger city. They might conclude Calgary is bigger due to the taller buildings, but they could also very reasonably conclude Halifax is bigger, given the greater abundance of significant historic buildings and more urbanized street life. (Though Stephen Avenue in Calgary is a great stretch of old buildings, and at the right time of day can get pretty full of people).
size.

Honestly, if I'd never been to Calgary, you could tell me it had 500,000 people and was just unusually full of tall buildings, and I'd believe you. You could also tell me it had 5 million people in some Phoenix-like megasprawl, and I'd believe that too.
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  #10931  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2018, 11:36 PM
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Vancouver does feel more than twice the size of Calgary, even though it's not.
Still, Calgary has some "big feeling" spots, and they're not necessarily the most urban parts of the city.

The last time I was there I drove in from Banff and wound up crawling along 16 Ave. NW in the middle of rush hour. It had a bit of a Los Angeles vibe; a kind of haggard immediate postwar suburbia that's a bit too dense for its car-orientation. A lot of the inner suburban parts of Toronto are like this too.
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  #10932  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2018, 11:55 PM
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it would feel bigger if Okotoks was included in the CMA count.
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  #10933  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2018, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post
....in 2077
Perhaps sooner, let's re-assess in 2050. Compound growth rates have a way of catching up to you. Calgary and Winnipeg were neck and neck in 1981.
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  #10934  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
Vancouver does feel more than twice the size of Calgary, even though it's not.
Still, Calgary has some "big feeling" spots, and they're not necessarily the most urban parts of the city.

The last time I was there I drove in from Banff and wound up crawling along 16 Ave. NW in the middle of rush hour. It had a bit of a Los Angeles vibe; a kind of haggard immediate postwar suburbia that's a bit too dense for its car-orientation. A lot of the inner suburban parts of Toronto are like this too.
16 ave nw is prototypical Canadiana - it is beige and generic and forgettable, dotted with tim hortons and big box chains and gas stations every few blocks. it is the type of road you find everywhere from downtown london ON to regina to Vancouver.

I'm surprised that's your yardstick for big feeling spot in Calgary, to me, it's just the most generic canadian feeling road you could possibly imagine, until you escape the monotony and come into view of the rockies (going the other way, there's no relief).
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  #10935  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by geotag277 View Post
16 ave nw is prototypical Canadiana - it is beige and generic and forgettable, dotted with tim hortons and big box chains and gas stations every few blocks. it is the type of road you find everywhere from downtown london ON to regina to Vancouver.

I'm surprised that's your yardstick for big feeling spot in Calgary, to me, it's just the most generic canadian feeling road you could possibly imagine, until you escape the monotony and come into view of the rockies (going the other way, there's no relief).
It might have to do with the time I arrived (rush hour) and the fact that I had spent the previous two weeks in rural areas and had lost urban perspective.

Still, I don't necessarily associate a "big city" feel with pedestrian-friendly European-style urbanism. It can also be associated with things like large buildings in unusual places, traffic congestion, big city driving patterns, that sort of thing. I think 16 Ave. NW is a bit different from a suburban arterial in a smaller city. I'm not saying that this is attractive, but it doesn't really feel like something you'd find on the outskirts of Red Deer or Cranbrook.
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  #10936  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
it would feel bigger if Okotoks was included in the CMA count.
*whistle blowing*

You just made a chadstick foul, section 2 of the Jacksonville sets of penalties, under the good Okotokmanship rules of engagement. Game misconduct and no soupa for you.
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  #10937  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
It might have to do with the time I arrived (rush hour) and the fact that I had spent the previous two weeks in rural areas and had lost urban perspective.

Still, I don't necessarily associate a "big city" feel with pedestrian-friendly European-style urbanism. It can also be associated with things like large buildings in unusual places, traffic congestion, big city driving patterns, that sort of thing. I think 16 Ave. NW is a bit different from a suburban arterial in a smaller city. I'm not saying that this is attractive, but it doesn't really feel like something you'd find on the outskirts of Red Deer or Cranbrook.
I'm kind of in between.

Large and new cities are obviously big, and feel that way to me. Older cities also feel satisfying, if not large, because the urbanity is the same.

So I would always choose Halifax over Regina. Always. I've spent the afternoon looking at videos and pictures of the SK cities and there's no question to me which feels better.

That said, I've been to Halifax many times, though not properly in the past decade, but... it just feels so empty and deserted at street level. At its very best, it's like a winter Saturday afternoon on Water Street in terms of foot traffic. And it has nothing that comes close to George Street on a daily basis. My friends have said Barriington and Spring Garden feel as busy as Water Street here, but I personally never experienced that. I've never experienced shoulder-to-shoulder pedestrian traffic like an average Friday night on George Street elsewhere unless it was some festival or event.

That festival in the Village in Winnipeg, for example. That was George Street level but only once a year.

At a certain point urban form matters more than size to me. Google Commonwealth Avenue in Mount Pearl. I know this probably makes me crazy, but I feel no less urban in Mississauga, which is not at all. I know the latter is larger, obviously. But none of the differences between them are urban or positive to me. You can have your four-lane office tower downtowns. Try as I might, I cannot feel I'm in a real city when I'm in them. Comparing Regina and Halifax is to me like comparing a strip mall that's half dentistry and government offices to a Turkish bazaar.

So, a vote for Halifax lol
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  #10938  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
Still, I don't necessarily associate a "big city" feel with pedestrian-friendly European-style urbanism.
The pedestrian-friendly stuff is a sign you're in a bigger city in newer parts of North America because it's a niche type of environment. In older parts of North America they are less of a hint and in Europe even small towns often have this feel.

I can think of a few more specific bigger city features that apply to pedestrian-friendly areas or to any type of urban area. They are just correlations that provide hints that you are in a bigger city.

One is specialization, and another is intensity of use. You see businesses shoehorned into small spaces in bigger cities where space is at more of a premium. The businesses tend to be more specific in areas where there's a lot of overall activity. The opposite of this is the small town phenomenon where you find weird amalgam stores and restaurants.
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  #10939  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 1:22 AM
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I'm kind of in between.

Large and new cities are obviously big, and feel that way to me. Older cities also feel satisfying, if not large, because the urbanity is the same.

So I would always choose Halifax over Regina. Always. I've spent the afternoon looking at videos and pictures of the SK cities and there's no question to me which feels better.

That said, I've been to Halifax many times, though not properly in the past decade, but... it just feels so empty and deserted at street level. At its very best, it's like a winter Saturday afternoon on Water Street in terms of foot traffic. And it has nothing that comes close to George Street on a daily basis. My friends have said Barriington and Spring Garden feel as busy as Water Street here, but I personally never experienced that. I've never experienced shoulder-to-shoulder pedestrian traffic like an average Friday night on George Street elsewhere unless it was some festival or event.

That festival in the Village in Winnipeg, for example. That was George Street level but only once a year.

At a certain point urban form matters more than size to me. Google Commonwealth Avenue in Mount Pearl. I know this probably makes me crazy, but I feel no less urban in Mississauga, which is not at all. I know the latter is larger, obviously. But none of the differences between them are urban or positive to me. You can have your four-lane office tower downtowns. Try as I might, I cannot feel I'm in a real city when I'm in them. Comparing Regina and Halifax is to me like comparing a strip mall that's half dentistry and government offices to a Turkish bazaar.

So, a vote for Halifax lol
It seems like you're judging by night life traffic (which can be a sign of tourism activity), instead of daytime activity pedestrian traffic. Pedestrian traffic vitality is actually a good way to judge how urban or big a city feels, and how widespread it is, keeping climatic differences in mind though.
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  #10940  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 2:33 AM
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Obviously everyone has a different idea of what the epitome of urbanity is and what feels most urban.

Some would say a pedestrian friendly narrow convoluted streets like what they probably had in the middle ages would be great urban form, but really any place can easily engineer a Whistler Village type pedestrian feel.

Some would say a busy night life traffic would be the crème de la crème of urbanity, I've been in Austin, Texas while Texas U in session and tens of thousands of students out on weekend with police on horse back and helicopters above crowd managing the crazy streets but fantastic urbanity wouldn't have been the first idea that would have come to my mind...although I did really like it & had fun

My idea of urbanity ideal & what feels big largely is based on streets organized in grid pattern & a mix between street level NYC style urban environment including highrises and LA car culture boulevard drive to a neighbourhood to work, do errands, shop or meet up with friends and enjoy different establishments etc. It's what I grew up experiencing of cities I'm accustom to & it's probably why I regard Calgary and other Prairies cities as sensibly urban.
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