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  #381  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2018, 3:47 AM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
Just to say that this is one of the most important, thought-provoking threads ever in the Canada forum. It has brought forth very unpleasant memories, but the conversation must take place.
Yes, it’s long past time we face our demons.

Thank you for sharing your experience. The more of us come forward the more progress will be made.
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  #382  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2018, 5:13 AM
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Thanks. Keep up the healing and you can join me in the trenches! A year ago I couldn’t imagine standing up to doubters like I do now. I cried every day and lived in darkness. I had difficulty believing my own memory. I felt like a ghost. I’ve been very fortunate to have supportive family that has helped me get very intensive therapy. I recommend you try EMDR or A.R.T. Therapy. They both desensitize you to the trauma but A.R.T. goes a step further by replacing the negative and painful feelings with neutral and even positive ones.

Believe it or not I find this back and forth on here cathartic. There’s a feeling of regaining control since most of my life I’ve been passive and allowed others to overrule me. I feel hopeful that people can be educated and mentalities will change. Also there’s an element of anger at the society that failed me. I want to scream at the top of my lungs to anyone that will listen and in this climate people are listening.

Also I couldn’t just let someone come in here and attack such an articulate and compassionate ally as geotag. To say nothing of the fact that Spocket took a big shit on rape victims right after someone came forward with their own painful story of rape. Read the conversations before you post people!
I can't imagine being able to 'join you in the trenches' but I'd like to think I could. It's good to hear other people's stories and surprised how much in common we have. I too question my memory only because I've run it through my head so many times it doesn't feel real any more.

I too have supportive friends/family. I'm enrolled in 2 programs I attend each week + in the last 8 months of a 2 year fitness study which I've incorporated into my recovery. The fitness regiment has proven to be very beneficial. Some people do yoga, I do the gym.

My 3rd program came to an end but I'm on a waiting list for another more intensive therapy program. I will ask them about EMDR and A.R.T. Is the second one 'art therapy'?
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  #383  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2018, 6:16 PM
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I can't imagine being able to 'join you in the trenches' but I'd like to think I could. It's good to hear other people's stories and surprised how much in common we have. I too question my memory only because I've run it through my head so many times it doesn't feel real any more.

I too have supportive friends/family. I'm enrolled in 2 programs I attend each week + in the last 8 months of a 2 year fitness study which I've incorporated into my recovery. The fitness regiment has proven to be very beneficial. Some people do yoga, I do the gym.

My 3rd program came to an end but I'm on a waiting list for another more intensive therapy program. I will ask them about EMDR and A.R.T. Is the second one 'art therapy'?
Yeah that feeling of questioning your sanity by replaying it over and over again in your mind is brutal. I’m at a point now where I’ve actually processed it and had family and childhood friends corroborate certain details that helped me piece together some of the missing pieces. The crazy thing now that I no longer carry the physical weight of it with me anymore is that it almost seems like it was a bad dream. What helped me recover the memories before and feel their truth was the physicality of it. The terror was ingrained into my nervous system. Now that it’s gone I can recite the facts but no longer feel the connection. It’s almost like it happened to someone else.

EMDR helps desensitize your nervous system to the memory. It uses rapid eye movements. It works. A.R.T. is a groundbreaking new method that also uses rapid eye movements but allows you to go back and change the scenes to pleasant ones. It sounds hokey but it actually works. It has nothing to do with art. It’s an acronym I can’t quite remember (Automatic Response Therapy?). I believe it is being pioneered out of the U of C. My therapist is an early adopter of it and I was one of his first patients he used it on.

Keep up your group treatments and try to do some EMDR I’d say. I wish I had found groups to be part of in my recovery process. That was something I wanted but couldn’t find. Social media and this forum have kind of been my group therapy.
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  #384  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2018, 6:20 PM
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Originally Posted by O-tacular View Post
Yeah that feeling of questioning your sanity by replaying it over and over again in your mind is brutal. I’m at a point now where I’ve actually processed it and had family and childhood friends corroborate certain details that helped me piece together some of the missing pieces. The crazy thing now that I no longer carry the physical weight of it with me anymore is that it almost seems like it was a bad dream. What helped me recover the memories before and feel their truth was the physicality of it. The terror was ingrained into my nervous system. Now that’s gone and I can recite the facts but no longer feel the connection. It’s almost like it happened to someone else.

EMDR helps desensitize your nervous system to the memory. It uses rapid eye movements. It works. A.R.T. is a groundbreaking new method that also uses rapid eye movements but allows you to go back and change the scenes to pleasant ones. It sounds hokey but it actually works. It has nothing to do with art. It’s an acronym I can’t quite remember (Automatic Response Therapy?). I believe it is being pioneered out of the U of C. My therapist is an early adopter of it and I was one of his first patients he used it on.

Keep up your group treatments and try to do some EMDR I’d say. I wish I had found groups to be part of in my recovery process. That was something I wanted but couldn’t find. Social media and this forum have kind of been my group therapy.
Accelerated Resolution Therapy?
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  #385  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2018, 6:24 PM
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I didn't say that we shouldn't do anything about the problem nor did I say that everybody including the courts is against those accused. What I said was that the demands being made are unreasonable and there's nothing new about any of this.

Now, if you all want to abandon the concept of innocent until proven guilty, that's your prerogative. If expecting and hoping reasonable minds prevail makes me a shitty person then I'd have to say that you're brainwashed. You'd have to be. Considering you're using all the tactics and language of the ideologically convinced, brainwashing seems like an apt description of what's happened to you. Let me guess...just left or are still in university? Just a guess. Focused on a degree in the humanities or social sciences? I took a giant shit on a victim of rape or harassment? Show me that please. I'd like to see what you believe qualifies as that.

Lastly, I'm guessing that not a single one of you has watched the news until around about a month ago. This is far from the first time this conversation has been had. I don't even understand how you can suggest that it is. It hasn't been off the lips of politicians or policymakers for at least the past 20 years and was hardly unknown for 20 years prior to that. You can see awareness campaigns on any city bus, PSA, or government office you care to name. That you haven't paid any attention to it at all in any way says far more about you than it does me. I don't go around raping and harassing women. You shouldn't either if any of this is news to you.
Yes and how much good has that public lip service done to prevent sexual assault and harrassment? If there aren’t repurcussions predators will continue the abuse. Just because you don’t rape or harrass women doesn’t mean other men don’t. Your insinuation about me is a joke! Please do yourself a favour and just go back to posting about skyscrapers. You aren’t contibuting anything positive to this thread.
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  #386  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2018, 6:25 PM
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Accelerated Resolution Therapy?
YES! You’ve heard of it then?
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  #387  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2018, 6:51 PM
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YES! You’ve heard of it then?
I've heard of it but don't know much about it. There are probably a lot of good techniques out there but so much depends on having the right people help you and being willing to put in the work to make them effective. I'm saying this from experience but it's nothing to do with the Me Too movement even though a lot of the time I feel like I'm getting fucked up the ass. Finding the help that's right for you and having that help actually available are so key. This is where I find the Me Too movement totally lacking. Yes, it's super important for people to be able to openly talk about what's happened to them but in order to heal they need more than that. Where's that help? I just don't see how an actor who was raped by a big time Hollywood producer is going to suddenly feel better because that producer is sent to prison. The producer should be sent to prison if they raped people. There's no question about that. But to be truly successful the victims need to be helped to overcome all of the psychological trauma caused by these incidents. At least that's the way I see it.

Just in case anyone thinks I'm only concerned about actors that's not the case. I just used them as an example.
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  #388  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2018, 9:19 PM
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I've heard of it but don't know much about it. There are probably a lot of good techniques out there but so much depends on having the right people help you and being willing to put in the work to make them effective. I'm saying this from experience but it's nothing to do with the Me Too movement even though a lot of the time I feel like I'm getting fucked up the ass. Finding the help that's right for you and having that help actually available are so key. This is where I find the Me Too movement totally lacking. Yes, it's super important for people to be able to openly talk about what's happened to them but in order to heal they need more than that. Where's that help? I just don't see how an actor who was raped by a big time Hollywood producer is going to suddenly feel better because that producer is sent to prison. The producer should be sent to prison if they raped people. There's no question about that. But to be truly successful the victims need to be helped to overcome all of the psychological trauma caused by these incidents. At least that's the way I see it.

Just in case anyone thinks I'm only concerned about actors that's not the case. I just used them as an example.
Not sure what your experience is but I know it is also used to treat PTSD. I agree that the next step for metoo will be for victims to become aware of treatment services. You have to start somewhere though.
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  #389  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2018, 10:37 PM
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Treatment is important. I remember participating on another board where one of the women was raped. This would have been at least five years ago. The board was already very sympathetic to rape victims (majority women). The women didn't seek treatment for the rape or couldn't and she couldn't seek legal redress. Since the forum she was discussing this on was a board interested in politics and activism (it was a writer's board so why have a politics board if you couldn't have an angle to activism?) so she attempted to seek redress through political activism. She eventually lost her mind and had to be banned after being directed to treatment services to help her out. Without treatment, it becomes almost pointless to try to be an activist for any cause. That observation can be said about. . . I think it was Rose McGowan. Yes, she did out Harvey Weinstein but she was in no position to be an advocate after Weinstein had been arrested and had others corroborate the abuse and assault with their own accounts. She still needed treatment.
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  #390  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2018, 12:35 AM
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Treatment is important. I remember participating on another board where one of the women was raped. This would have been at least five years ago. The board was already very sympathetic to rape victims (majority women). The women didn't seek treatment for the rape or couldn't and she couldn't seek legal redress. Since the forum she was discussing this on was a board interested in politics and activism (it was a writer's board so why have a politics board if you couldn't have an angle to activism?) so she attempted to seek redress through political activism. She eventually lost her mind and had to be banned after being directed to treatment services to help her out. Without treatment, it becomes almost pointless to try to be an activist for any cause. That observation can be said about. . . I think it was Rose McGowan. Yes, she did out Harvey Weinstein but she was in no position to be an advocate after Weinstein had been arrested and had others corroborate the abuse and assault with their own accounts. She still needed treatment.
My best friend’s wife is a rape survivor. I knew this before she confided in me after I came out because she constantly shares sensationalistic and angry posts on Facebook about rape. She was very sympathetic to me and helped, but I don’t think she ever took my advice to seek help. The other day she posted some shit about a woman who was raped and killed with a car jack and the title was “This is why we worry”. I’m sorry but no. Normal women don’t worry about getting raped by a car jack. It’s sensationalistic and does nothing to advance the cause. Myself and many others i know quietly unfollowed her because it’s tedious seeing that shit on your feed. Rather than educate people it makes them tune out.
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  #391  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2018, 5:30 AM
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  #392  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2018, 4:52 AM
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What’s next?

What comes after Me Too? There’s Time’s Up but that seems like more of the same. Is the next phase one of healing? I feel like there needs to be more than simply outing the perpetrators. Society needs to do more to help survivors financially. Therapy is expensive.
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  #393  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2018, 9:09 PM
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...news-1.4535358

This could be a massive blow to both CTV News and the MeToo movement in Canada. Time will tell.
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  #394  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 3:22 PM
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...news-1.4535358

This could be a massive blow to both CTV News and the MeToo movement in Canada. Time will tell.
I don't think this is a massive blow to either CTV or the #MeToo movement. CTV remains defiant about its story, and #MeToo is largely American-focused and none of those people have no idea who Patrick Brown.

That said, it's interesting that there have been no reactions here on SSP since you posted this yesterday (afternoon? can't see the time on this page).
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  #395  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 3:33 PM
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I saw that the other day. Guessing Patrick Brown hired a PR firm, although to what end I am not sure. Seems to be focusing on the first account which was more in the "pretty creepy" realm as opposed to outright inappropriate actions towards an employee. He's still denying the latter but it seems like more of an afterthought. Also trying to shift the focus to legalities, which might be a good obfuscation strategy for those who focus solely on "well if there was an assault why didn't they go to the police???" issue. One that has been discussed on this thread.

At the end of not sure what his endgame is, maybe right wing media??
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  #396  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 3:40 PM
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At the end of not sure what his endgame is, maybe right wing media??
His endgame may be to salvage his political career, but I doubt that's possible.

Secondarily, if his reputation can be salvaged, this may improve his employability.

Also, I'm sure he is bitter and seeking vindication and a tincture of revenge against his anonymous accusers.
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  #397  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 4:32 PM
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His endgame may be to salvage his political career, but I doubt that's possible.
Maybe, just maybe, his end game is that he really is innocent? Some more revelations are out today from his girlfriend at the time who was a witness and the supposed driver (( Driver denies taking 1st accuser to Brown's house)).

Now I'm not saying his is innocent, but our legal framework is predicated on "innocent until proven guilty". In this case, his political career has been destroyed and he will always be tainted by this. That said, imagine, just imagine if he didn't actually do what they claimed??

Part of their details appear to be unraveling (the age of the victim, the details of his apartment, the denial by the supposed driver) enough to question the whole affair.

While I absolutely support the concept of enabling victims to address assaults of this nature, I do think that there needs to be a measure of care when addressing these claims. See Sarah Thomson.



BTW, my personal opinion of Brown is very low, and i wouldn't have voted for him for a number of reasons, but people shouldn't be tried solely in the court of public opinion.
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  #398  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 4:35 PM
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He's still denying the latter but it seems like more of an afterthought.
Today's cbc article includes a witness that appears to contradict the claims of the latter.

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At the end of not sure what his endgame is, maybe right wing media??
Or that he really didn't do it?
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  #399  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 4:38 PM
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Or that he really didn't do it?

Based on what I've heard outside media channels I find that VERY hard to believe.
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  #400  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 4:41 PM
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Based on what I've heard outside media channels I find that VERY hard to believe.
The old adage "where's there's smoke there's fire" often has merit HOWEVER we either live by the creed that innocent until proven guilty for all or not - it's not a selective model. In this case we are starting to see that the first story has some major discrepancies. Not saying that this means it didn't happen, but it does change the narrative somewhat.
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