The Official Moncton, NB Project Thread

[mylesmalley]

...better not be for a new school...

[MonctonRad]

You never know..........



Cathy Rogers went out on a limb to reassure her constituents that the Bessborough replacement would be built on the existing school property. Now that Higgs has taken over, maybe he has different plans..........

[MonctonRad]

from Mayor Dawn Arnold's summary of the council meeting:

We then moved into planning matters and heard about a new rezoning application for Franklin Crossing (from NH (Neighbourhood) to MUC (Mixed Use Centre). The plan would include residential, community college, future commercial development and park land. As always, this will go through a process that will include a Public Presentation (Dec. 3), written review from the Planning Advisory Committee (Dec. 19) and a Public Hearing (Jan. 21) — lots of opportunities for you to find out more details on this. We also had the final presentation on the 12 re-zonings of city owned land to parkland.

So, a school, no - but the developers of Franklin Crossing obviously want to keep all options open in terms of future development possibilities.

[MonctonRad]

Here are a couple of images of what they have in mind from Mayor Arnold's FB page.





The images unfortunately are pretty low res, so it's difficult to see exactly what's going on, however they do show a building with a substantial parking lot on the west end of the portion of the Franklin Yards that they want rezoned MUC. I presume this must be the "community college" she was referencing in her post. In this case, I presume it is a private college along the lines of Oulton's. I wonder which college this might be?

I do know that there are possible plans to convert the building McKenzie College is currently located in (on the corner of Gordon & Cameron) to residential. Perhaps McKenzie College is looking for a new home???

[MonctonRad]

Good CBC article about the above rezoning request:

Mystery college proposed near Moncton's Centennial Park
City says proposal leaves the door open to a new west end school in the area
Shane Magee · CBC News · Posted: Nov 21, 2018 5:00 AM AT | Last Updated: 4 hours ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...ning-1.4913100

Moncton council is giving early approval to rezone a small wedge of land along Millennium Boulevard that would allow a two-storey college building, a change that also leaves the door open to constructing a new west end school in the area.

"What's being proposed is the property owner is trying subdivide a large portion, a large lot out of this, for a local community college for their new expanded campus," Bill Budd, the city's director of urban planning, told council while outlining the rezoning.

Budd told council the rezoning from integrated development zone to mixed use would also allow public schools.

"If the province wants to locate a school in this area, they could," Budd said.

Franklin Yard was one of the sites floated for a new kindergarten to Grade 8 school to replace Hillcrest and Bessborough schools.

The proposed Franklin Yard college site and parking lot would cover six acres (about two hectares), leaving about 14 acres (about 5½ hectares) open for other development.

The province usually requires about 20 acres, or about eight hectares, for new schools, Budd said.

There's no direct road access from the west end neighbourhoods where Hillcrest and Bessborough schools are located to Franklin Yard.

Marc Landry, the city manager, said staff would present options to council, such as a cost-sharing arrangement, if the developer wants a road connection through the city park.

The CBC article included better graphics than those available in Mayor Arnold's FB post.


Good perspective on the location of the Franklin Yard


close-up of the "proposed two storey educational facility"

- In the CBC article, McKenzie College denied that this proposal is from them. Oulton College on the other hand apparently only gave a terse "no comment".

- It could be Oulton College. Their school has been in growth mode for some time, and already operate a separate building for their Dental Hygiene and Dental Assistant programs. Their other health professions programs are increasingly in demand (including Laboratory Technology, Paramedic, Veterinary Assistant and Practical Nursing amongst others), and I could certainly see them separating the remainder of their health programs from all the other programs that they offer (information technology, business, policing and corrections, early childhood education, child care, etc).

- The fact that the remaining 14 acres to be zoned MUC could accommodate a public school is interesting. Cathy Rogers really wanted the (proposed) new school to be located on the current Bessborough site. I could see Blaine Higgs maybe throwing in a curve ball here.

- The real shocker in the CBC article is that the city apparently isn't rejecting out of hand the possibility of a connector road through Centennial Park between a possible new school and the new west end. This would be highly controversial, and could lead to drastically increased traffic within the park and several residential streets. The logical place to put a connector for a possible new public school would be between Grand Trunk and the Centennial Park Roadway. A road here would (incidentally) provide a direct route from West Main Street all the way through to the Trans Canada Highway!



Personally I'm neutral on the concept of a continuous crosstown route through the west end of the city, but people should be aware of this potentiality, realizing that there could be tremendous resulting changes in traffic patterns and volumes, especially on Milner and Purdy. A cross town route in this section of the city may have considerable benefit, but debate will be necessary.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Good CBC article about the above rezoning request:

Mystery college proposed near Moncton's Centennial Park
City says proposal leaves the door open to a new west end school in the area
Shane Magee · CBC News · Posted: Nov 21, 2018 5:00 AM AT | Last Updated: 4 hours ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...ning-1.4913100








The CBC article included better graphics than those available in Mayor Arnold's FB post.


Good perspective on the location of the Franklin Yard


close-up of the "proposed two storey educational facility"

- In the CBC article, McKenzie College denied that this proposal is from them. Oulton College on the other hand apparently only gave a terse "no comment".

- It could be Oulton College. Their school has been in growth mode for some time, and already operate a separate building for their Dental Hygiene and Dental Assistant programs. Their other health professions programs are increasingly in demand (including Laboratory Technology, Paramedic, Veterinary Assistant and Practical Nursing amongst others), and I could certainly see them separating the remainder of their health programs from all the other programs that they offer (information technology, business, policing and corrections, early childhood education, child care, etc).

- The fact that the remaining 14 acres to be zoned MUC could accommodate a public school is interesting. Cathy Rogers really wanted the (proposed) new school to be located on the current Bessborough site. I could see Blaine Higgs maybe throwing in a curve ball here.

- The real shocker in the CBC article is that the city apparently isn't rejecting out of hand the possibility of a connector road through Centennial Park between a possible new school and the new west end. This would be highly controversial, and could lead to drastically increased traffic within the park and several residential streets. The logical place to put a connector for a possible new public school would be between Grand Trunk and the Centennial Park Roadway. A road here would (incidentally) provide a direct route from West Main Street all the way through to the Trans Canada Highway!



Personally I'm neutral on the concept of a continuous crosstown route through the west end of the city, but people should be aware of this potentiality, realizing that there could be tremendous resulting changes in traffic patterns and volumes, especially on Milner and Purdy. A cross town route in this section of the city may have considerable benefit, but debate will be necessary.

Great to see more schools in the area. More choices for Monctonians and maritimers alike. They might as well do something else with that land because for residential it's not filling in very quickly at all, it's just at a crawling pace. What a great line through the city that Trans-Canada Highway to Main st. would make. Making areas of Moncton more easily accessible.

[MonctonRad]

Apparently Oulton College has confirmed that they may be interested in expanding by constructing a third academic building at the Franklin Yard. They however did not confirm that these future plans are solid, or cast in stone.

https://www.telegraphjournal.com/tim...tory/100776182 (paywall)

Also, a move to replace both Bessborough and Hillcrest schools by building a new K-8 school at the Franklin Yard is also very much on the table, according to sources in the Department of Education. No final decision has been made.

A new school here has the benefit of backing on Centennial Park, and being right across the street from the CN Sportplex and facilities like the 4-Ice Centre and the Sportsdome. This certainly could be of significant benefit to the students. On the downside, it is not really central to the neighbourhood that it will serve (and most importantly will be on the wrong side of the very busy St George Blvd). As such, it won't really be a "walking school".

If the new K-8 school is built at the Franklin Yard, a connector from the Centennial Park Roadway through to Grand Trunk and Russ Howard will be pretty much mandatory in order to allow access to the school from the new and old west end neighbourhoods. Traffic patterns would certainly change (although I am not necessarily predicting substantially increased through traffic volume on the way to the TCH). The connector could also be designated such that commercial truck traffic would't be allowed. Nevertheless, I'm sure the debate over all this will be interesting........

[Blue Blazer]

drove by the new Costco in Moncton on the way to Halifax see traffic was backed right up to the exit from the highway. looked Crazy busy on Friday afternoon.

is there any word on what is going in the old Costco. Someone told me "the brick. I don't see that but what do I know

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Blue Blazer

is there any word on what is going in the old Costco. Someone told me "the brick. I don't see that but what do I know

The Brick is already in Wheeler Park. They took over the old Sears Home store.

No one knows what's happening at the old Costco site, but it is pretty certain that they did indeed find a buyer. All signs point towards this.

Most likely possibilities:

1) - a new retail strip plaza with a restaurant pad.
2) - Kent expansion or relocation
3) - New Cineplex Complex with an IMAX and a Rec Room (this latter possibility is more of a wish than a definite possibility - IMAX wants into Moncton, the existing Cineplex in Wheeler Park needs to be upgraded and the Rec Room concept is confirmed for St. John's, possible for Halifax and Moncton would seem the next logical place to consider in the east). Aside from the IMAX bit, the rest doesn't even qualify as a rumour (yet).

[Mattyyy]

It looks like the rental vacancy rate in Moncton has fallen from 4.5% to 2.7% in Moncton from October 2017 to October 2018.

[Sumater]

Yeesh, that's worrying. I'm hoping those new apartment complexes are finished soon.

Anyone remember how, a few years ago, Moncton had a ridiculous oversupply of apartments?

[MonctonRad]

There's a public presentation at city council tonight about the Franklin Yard rezoning request. This should be interesting......

[PEI highway guy]

Another tidbit from tonight's council meeting.

9.5 Request for Proposal RFP18-083 – Project Management Services (New Codiac RCMP Facility)
Demande de propositions RFP18-083 – Services de gestion de projet

[MonctonRad]

I'm surprised nobody has brought up this outrage yet........

2021 Francophonie Games could cost taxpayers 7 times more than expected
Moncton-Dieppe won bid to host Francophonie Games in 2016 based on a $17 million budget
Gabrielle Fahmy · CBC News · Posted: Dec 06, 2018 4:46 PM AT | Last Updated: December 6
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...dget-1.4934984

The Moncton-Dieppe bid was selected to host the 2021 Games — considered the biggest sporting and cultural event in the French-speaking world — based on a $17-million budget submitted back in 2015.

But Radio-Canada has learned the request for funding by the Games' organizing committee, first submitted to government back in April, is for $130 million, raising questions about whether hosting the games in New Brunswick is still a viable option.

The municipalities of Moncton and Dieppe were supposed to contribute $750,000 each, with the rest of the money split evenly between the federal and provincial governments.

It would appear that the organizing committee deliberately misled Moncton, Dieppe, New Brunswick and Canada by misrepresenting the total cost of hosting the games, by not including the "business case" as part of the bidding process.

This is outrageous!!!!!! I don't know which is worse, the fact that the organizing committee engaged in this deliberate falsehood, or the fact that the governments fell for it!!!!

When they first floated the idea of hosting the games for a mere $17M, they stated that the city did not need to build additional sports infrastructure, and that the francophone games were considerably more modest than their anglophone counterpart (the Commonwealth Games).

At the time, I thought the idea of a $17M games was a lowball estimate, but I gave them the benefit of the doubt. A low total cost like that seemed unlikely to me, especially since when Halifax pulled the plug on their Commonwealth games bid, the price for their games had escalated to more than a half billion dollars.

The feds have stated that they are not willing to fund any more than 50% of the cost of the games. I sincerely doubt the Higgs government will suddenly become generous either, especially given the blatant misrepresentation of the cost of the games by the organizing committee. To his credit, Mayor LaPierre of Dieppe has already gone on the record as stating that the organizing committee should not expect any additional help from his city.

The city of Moncton must do the same. There should not be another red cent pledged on behalf of city taxpayers to support this fraudulent bid by the organizing committee.

This is different than the monies spent by the city to build the Avenir Centre (a project I was fully in support of). The Avenir Centre is a vital piece of civic infrastructure which hopefully will more than pay for itself in the next decade or two by stimulating downtown development. The Jeux de la Francophonie however is a one-off event with little if any legacy benefits to either Moncton or Dieppe. This fiasco freight train needs to be stopped now before it becomes a full-fledged train wreck.

I live in ward three, and the by-election to replace Rob McKee is coming up on Monday. I wasn't sure who I was going to vote for before, but I know now. If there is one person who will stand up for Moncton ratepayers, and who will help put an end to this ridiculous and fraudulent farce, it will be Brian Hicks.

That's who I'm voting for..........

[BlackYear]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm surprised nobody has brought up this outrage yet........

This is outrageous!!!!!! I don't know which is worse, the fact that the organizing committee engaged in this deliberate falsehood, or the fact that the governments fell for it!!!!

The city of Moncton must do the same. There should not be another red cent pledged on behalf of city taxpayers to support this fraudulent bid by the organizing committee.

Oh yes I read that this morning. And I agree, just pull the plug on this joke and the organizing committee should be evaporated by Queen Daenerys Game of Thrones dragons.

[L'homard]

Just to clear up a popular misconception, these games are not "francophone" games, they are for residents of the nations belonging to the francophonie group of countries. You can speak any language you want.

That being said, I propose going one step further by immediately informing the organizing committee to GFYs and announcing our full withdrawal from this farce given the sleight of hand being perpetrated on us taxpayers. I was 100 per cent in favour of hosting this massive event for the mere price of less than a million bucks = too good to be true after all.
Once we announce our withdrawal, like today, there should be a full investigation to find out what went wrong and who is responsible, so that these same crooks don't try to pull this kind of BS on some other group/municipality.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by L'homard

Just to clear up a popular misconception, these games are not "francophone" games, they are for residents of the nations belonging to the francophonie group of countries. You can speak any language you want.

An important distinction, thank you, but this doesn't change my opinion.

I was reasonably happy with a $17M cost for the games (however unlikely that cost estimate seemed), but to have the costs escalate by 666% is beyond the pale. No government (should) acquiesce to such an overinflated request for additional funding. What was the organizing committee thinking??? The committee must be filled with rank amateurs if they thought for one minute that taxpayers would forgive them an "oversight" of this proportion.

Here's another CBC article regarding this financial travesty:

Sticker shock: Moncton councillors balk at Francophonie Games price
How to pay estimated $130M cost an open question
Shane Magee · CBC News · Posted: Dec 07, 2018 7:12 PM AT | Last Updated: December 7
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...tion-1.4937208

I found this quote from the CBC article interesting:

While Dieppe's mayor said this week he only learned of the new cost on Wednesday night, city staff in both cities have known since April when they received the business plan.

"We got a copy of the business plan at the end of April and that's when we learned that the scope of the financial ask was broader than what was really submitted as part of the bid package," LeBlanc said. "However, we also knew that the federal and provincial governments needed to go through their negotiations process."

LeBlanc and Annie Duguay, Dieppe's director of communications, say the information wasn't shared with elected officials because the cities weren't asked to increase their contribution, so there was nothing for council to review and approve.

So, city staffers in both Moncton and Dieppe have been aware of the new cost estimate for the games for the last eight months, but they felt that since no specific funding request had been made to the city governments, that the mayors and city councils did not "need" to know the details.......

I can't believe this! It makes you wonder exactly who is running the two cities? Is it the bureaucrats or is it the politicians???

Basically, LaPierre and Arnold are being hung out to dry here. At the very least, the city managers should have foreseen the potential political ramifications involved and notified the mayors accordingly. It makes you wonder if heads should roll in the city administrations!!!

- The feds are only going to cost share up to 50% the cost of the games.
- The Higgs government has announced they are only going to fund a max of $10M towards the games.
- Dieppe says they will not readjust their contribution of $750,000
- Moncton should do the same (or else Moncton taxpayers will be played as fools).

As such, at present, the organizing committee appears to have only $21.5M secured for the games, only 16.5% of their "revised" request.

I think it's time to throw in the towel.

[L'homard]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

An important distinction, thank you, but this doesn't change my opinion.

I point it out not to change anyone's opinion, but to help dispel the widely held but WRONG notion that this cultural/sporting event is only for French speakers. You probably already knew that but many do not. I'm with you 100%, the city must immediately make it clear that they won't be suckered into this scam, both so that organizers can have time to find another host, and so that the next batch of flim-flam artists are clear that we aren't fools here in Moncton and Dieppe.

[MonctonRad]

Games will bring in 'hundreds of millions': Organizer
https://www.telegraphjournal.com/tel...tory/100791852 (paywall)

This response by Eric Matthieu Doucet was made on Friday afternoon to a query from the T&T regarding the hugely inflated cost of the proposed Francophonie Games.

Sorry Eric, but judging from past experience, it's hard to believe a thing you say........

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Games will bring in 'hundreds of millions': Organizer

That's really interesting because this T&T article from 2015 says the games will generate an economic impact of $25M according to GNB.

https://www.telegraphjournal.com/tim...=story-related

Originally Posted by L'homard

I point it out not to change anyone's opinion, but to help dispel the widely held but WRONG notion that this cultural/sporting event is only for French speakers. You probably already knew that but many do not.

Even if the games include anglophone speakers from Francophone countries it's still called Jeux de la Francophonie and is quite obviously (and optically) affiliated with solely French speakers. The Commonwealth Games, whether rightly or wrongly, are obviously affiliated with Anglophone speakers.