WTC 9/11 Question

[KaiShreds]

I hate to bring this up and I hope it doesn't offend anyone, but I have a question that has been bothering me for years. I'm from NY and went to the World Trade Center only once as a kid in the mid-90's with a family friend and I remember it vividly, but I'm no architect and I wouldn't know the answer to this question.

Would it have been possible for the people trapped in One World Trade Center at the very top floors to have climbed the outside of the building to the roof so that one of the helicopters could have at least attempted a rescue? I know the roof was inaccessible from inside, but I honestly think climbing up the outside is what I would have tried since so many people jumped and it would have given me the courage to try the opposite seeing the desperate nature of the situation.

I remember reading a long time ago that the windows were very easy to break (hence why so many people were able to do so). Would it have been possible for someone on the 106th floor to just stack objects close to his window that he could stand on and then use another object to break the window above him and then pull himself up into that window? Then you would just keep doing it.

I notice when it comes to the mechanical floors though (the two top floors before the roof), the structure of the building changed and it looked like there were vents/shutters instead of windows: http://stevespak.com/spak/nypdesu.html (3rd photo from the top)
Photo from the collection of Steve Spak

If one were to have above average body strength and get himself onto that, couldn't he just spider climb his way to one of the enclosed areas just below the ledge and then pull himself over the ledge? Then from the ledge, I believe there was a 10-15 foot steep steel incline that you'd have to get up to get to the actual roof.

I guess what I'd really worried about with this whole idea would be being able to actually grip the steel (and whether or not the heat/smoke would be deadly as you're climbing), especially when trying to pull yourself into the enclosed area and when you're trying to pull yourself over the ledge. I'm not even sure if the incline would have been capable of being gripped.


Was this idea at least possible if someone had it in his mind to give it a shot?

[munchymunch]

Originally Posted by KaiShreds

I hate to bring this up and I hope it doesn't offend anyone, but I have a question that has been bothering me for years. I'm from NY and went to the World Trade Center only once as a kid in the mid-90's with a family friend and I remember it vividly, but I'm no architect and I wouldn't know the answer to this question.

Would it have been possible for the people trapped in One World Trade Center at the very top floors to have climbed the outside of the building to the roof so that one of the helicopters could have at least attempted a rescue? I know the roof was inaccessible from inside, but I honestly think climbing up the outside is what I would have tried since so many people jumped and it would have given me the courage to try the opposite seeing the desperate nature of the situation.

I remember reading a long time ago that the windows were very easy to break (hence why so many people were able to do so). Would it have been possible for someone on the 106th floor to just stack objects close to his window that he could stand on and then use another object to break the window above him and then pull himself up into that window? Then you would just keep doing it.

I notice when it comes to the mechanical floors though (the two top floors before the roof), the structure of the building changed and it looked like there were vents/shutters instead of windows: http://stevespak.com/spak/nypdesu.html (3rd photo from the top)
Photo from the collection of Steve Spak

If one were to have above average body strength and get himself onto that, couldn't he just spider climb his way to one of the enclosed areas just below the ledge and then pull himself over the ledge? Then from the ledge, I believe there was a 10-15 foot steep steel incline that you'd have to get up to get to the actual roof.

I guess what I'd really worried about with this whole idea would be being able to actually grip the steel (and whether or not the heat/smoke would be deadly as you're climbing), especially when trying to pull yourself into the enclosed area and when you're trying to pull yourself over the ledge. I'm not even sure if the incline would have been capable of being gripped.


Was this idea at least possible if someone had it in his mind to give it a shot?

My guess is that they didn't even know the buildings would collapse. By the time the first one fell it would be to dangerous to even use a helicopter due to smoke and debris.

[OptimumPx]

The main problem with a helicopter rescue, as I understand it, was the the heat and the updrafts from the fires made it far too unsafe to try and attempt a landing on the roof.

The other problem was that you couldn't even see the roofs themselves through all of the smoke, and the only part of either roof that could be seen, the northwest corner of 1WTC, happened to be the spot that the automated window washing unit stopped at when it lost power after the crash.

[photoLith]

They tried to do helicopter rescues from the top but like the previous person said, there was obviously too much smoke. Also, the roof access hatches were locked so people couldnt get to the roof.

[MolsonExport]

As others have said, smoke would have greatly hampered breathing even on the roof outside (and most people that survived impact above the impact floors wouldn't have had a clue whether to go up/down or stay put), and completely ruled out helicopter rescue.

• Video Link

Brian Clark was one of only fourteen people in the South Tower to escape from a floor above the plane's impact, escaping from his office on the 84th floor. No one escaped above the impact point in the North Tower.

While Stanley Praimnath screamed for someone to come help him, Euro Brokers executive Brian Clark from the 84th floor and a group of his coworkers were debating in the stairwell whether to descend through the impact zone using the stairwell, which they had been told was impassable, or to climb to the roof. While Clark listened to his coworkers debating this, his attention shifted when he could hear Praimnath's faint screams for help. Clark made his way to Praimnath by using his flashlight and by following Praimnath's voice. As Clark was on his way to find Praimnath, he quickly turned back towards his coworkers and saw they had decided to climb up the stairs instead of going down. (Consequently, all of Clark's coworkers were killed.)

Wikipedia


advance to narration beginning at 15:53 of this video:
• Video Link

[scalziand]

This pic also shows the sloped parapet just below the roof which would be pretty impossible to climb up, especially in such poor conditions.

[KaiShreds]

Wow those smoke pictures are absolutely horrifying. I didn't realize it was THAT bad up close. I saw the towers from a distance that day as well as on TV of course and I remember the smoke, but that's just horrifying for lack of a better word.


Right about the parapet, but I remember seeing a picture of the ledge and I believe it's wooden and a good 4 inches in width, so if you can just get over the ledge, I think you could climb up the parapet from a standing position on the ledge assuming you can at least get enough of a grip to squirm your way up it like a worm. I dunno, seems like it was made out of stainless steel though and that IS a pretty steep angle so I can see that being impossible too.

All a moot point I suppose, I just wonder why no one ever tried to climb up the 4-5 floors from the outside. I'm going to just guess that the stainless steel facing of the WTC wasn't as grippable as I thought.

[photoLith]

^
Havent you seen the videos of some of the people who tried to climb down the side of the building? There was nothing to grab onto and they just fell. Climbing up the exterior would have been impossible.

[Guiltyspark]

Originally Posted by KaiShreds

Wow those smoke pictures are absolutely horrifying. I didn't realize it was THAT bad up close. I saw the towers from a distance that day as well as on TV of course and I remember the smoke, but that's just horrifying for lack of a better word.


Right about the parapet, but I remember seeing a picture of the ledge and I believe it's wooden and a good 4 inches in width, so if you can just get over the ledge, I think you could climb up the parapet from a standing position on the ledge assuming you can at least get enough of a grip to squirm your way up it like a worm. I dunno, seems like it was made out of stainless steel though and that IS a pretty steep angle so I can see that being impossible too.

All a moot point I suppose, I just wonder why no one ever tried to climb up the 4-5 floors from the outside. I'm going to just guess that the stainless steel facing of the WTC wasn't as grippable as I thought.

That parapet is much taller and steeper than you think it was. Either that or you vastly overestimate your abilities. "Squirm your way up it like a worm." is the stupidest and funniest thing I have ever read on this forum. And I read the stuff ThatOneGuy writes.

[ThatOneGuy]

Look who is talking.

[M.K.]

[KaiShreds]

Originally Posted by photoLith

^
Havent you seen the videos of some of the people who tried to climb down the side of the building? There was nothing to grab onto and they just fell. Climbing up the exterior would have been impossible.

I haven't, but going down made no sense because you couldn't climb below the impact zone and you couldn't even climb to a lower floor unless someone had already broken the window when you descended to that floor because you'd probably fall trying to break it on your own.

See, the way I'm suggesting you climb doesn't require you to grip because you'd be spider-climbing so your hands and feet just need to be able to get some traction on the steel facing. I think the big issue is being able to pull yourself into that enclosed area just below the ledge that leads up to the parapet which leads up to the roof, then being able to pull yourself over the ledge, and I think the smoke would have really made it difficult because you'd be choking on it on the way up.

I dunno. It's what I would have tried, but it may well have been impossible as I'm not sure if you could actually spider-climb the facing although the dimensions and spacing look great to try it.

[photoLith]

^
Uh, how can you get traction on a slick metal facade with nothing to grab onto?

[Jasoncw]

Have you ever done one of those climbing walls where you grab on to the plastic grips to climb up? And those are what, 20 to 30 feet tall usually? Can you imagine climbing up 10 of those in a row without resting? And those have grips specifically for climbing. At that height just the wind on a normal day could knock you off.

Even just walking up the stairs to the roof would be physically exhausting.

[Guiltyspark]

"What was that bang? A plane hit the building!? Let me just finish this danish and then I will spider climb up the worlds second tallest building to safety."

fat by Hawkeye142, on Flickr

[mdiederi]

George Willig climbed the South Tower in 1977. But, he made special climbing equipment to fit the window washing tracks, and also got assistance from the police at the very top before they arrested him.


http://www.fresher.ru/


nydailynews.com

[drumz0rz]

I don't mean to dig up this thread, but to put this notion to rest one and for all, I wanted to add this photo from when Dan Goodwin climbed the tower in '83. There's no way someone could have scaled that parapet.

Source: Pat Benic, © Bettmann/CORBIS