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  #1141  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2017, 4:47 AM
LilZebra LilZebra is offline
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...tara-1.4294276

CBC Manitoba
Mon. Sep. 18, 2017

Posted by Sean Kavanaugh

Political scientist and U of M professor emeritus Paul Thomas says he's never seen a situation like this in Manitoba or even Canadian politics, where a newly minted leader of a party faced such scrutiny.
I think we do. Former Mayor of Toronto, Mr. Ford.

Only difference is that Ford was a Cons. and Kinew is a Lefty. Ford was Mayor, while Kinew currently sits as Leader of the Opposition.

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  #1142  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2017, 3:38 PM
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Details emerge of Manitoba NDP Leader Wab Kinew's assault, drunk-driving charges

Court heard in 2004 that Kinew directed 'racial comments' at cabbie before physical altercation

CBC News Posted: Sep 19, 2017 5:15 AM CT| Last Updated: Sep 19, 2017 9:38 AM CT


As new Manitoba NDP Leader Wab Kinew finished his first day on the job Monday, more details emerged about his 2003 arrests for assault and drunk driving.

CBC has reviewed the audio record of Kinew's sentencing in September 2004.

Full article: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...-ndp-1.4295906
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  #1143  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2017, 3:47 PM
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Quite the scathing indictments in the Free Press too. When you're the NDP leader and you've lost the CBC and Free Press, you are in some kind of trouble.
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  #1144  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2017, 4:52 PM
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Big time trouble. I think his days are numbered. The gods are trying to hand a victory to the Libs, but not getting much cooperation so far.
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  #1145  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2017, 9:10 PM
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Hell, I'll say it.

His past doesn't bother me. Rap is as Rap does, and while it crosses a line, that's what Rap tries to do. Not a fan, but it is what it is and despite easily acknowledging why people are upset, I personally take it with a grain of salt.

What offends me is the double standard of scrutiny typical found among the left. If this was a con, well for one he wouldn't be named leader but if somehow he became leader, there would be aggressive protests.

Off topic-ish, but it reminds me of how Harper was called Hitler or a totalitarian by a surprising amount of lefties (and while other lefties did not share this view, they didn't correct them). Now we have Trump in office (who is not a Nazi) and actual Nazis surfacing in the US, and a "reformed" misogynist leading the provincial NDP.
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  #1146  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2017, 9:18 PM
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If anything, whomever does the background checks and dirt digging as part of the NDP vetting process really needs to get some help, or find a new job.

Kinew should have been told very clearly that he could not be supported in a run for leadership with his checkered past. Reformed or not.
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  #1147  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2017, 9:20 PM
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Double standard? Are you kidding me? Did you notice the criticism aimed at Obama over the years or the hate for Clinton? This shit goes both ways and always has.
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  #1148  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 2:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Tacheguy View Post
Double standard? Are you kidding me? Did you notice the criticism aimed at Obama over the years or the hate for Clinton? This shit goes both ways and always has.
Yep. It just happens that in this province the NDP are first to sharpen their knives and the last to admit any fault from their own. Look at how Pat Martin used to carry on. He never drunkenly beat the shit out of a cab driver (that we know of) but he was not the messianic-if-flawed figure his supporters made him out to be.
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  #1149  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 5:15 AM
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Interestingly, I've seen a lot of progressives saying things in Wab's defence that are the exact same types of things that they vilified people for saying in defence of Ghomeshi not that long ago. There is definitely a double standard.
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  #1150  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by windypeg View Post
Interestingly, I've seen a lot of progressives saying things in Wab's defence that are the exact same types of things that they vilified people for saying in defence of Ghomeshi not that long ago. There is definitely a double standard.
A double standard because...Ghomeshi is a right winger? Thanks for the laugh.
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  #1151  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 12:27 PM
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A double standard because...Ghomeshi is a right winger? Thanks for the laugh.
The only double standard that exists is that Kinew is given the benefit of doubt from the clueless hypocritical left because of what and who he supposedly represents.

Had Kinew and his baggage been trying to run for the cons. Or had been elected leader of a right of centre political party he would have been torn apart by the media. Apparently a criminal past, misogynistic views and abuse of the opposite sex is okay with those on the left as long as the person represents your interests.
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  #1152  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 1:12 PM
Tacheguy Tacheguy is offline
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Left wing media conspiracy?
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  #1153  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 1:48 PM
The Unknown Poster The Unknown Poster is offline
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Originally Posted by Wolf13 View Post
Hell, I'll say it.

His past doesn't bother me. Rap is as Rap does, and while it crosses a line, that's what Rap tries to do. Not a fan, but it is what it is and despite easily acknowledging why people are upset, I personally take it with a grain of salt.

What offends me is the double standard of scrutiny typical found among the left. If this was a con, well for one he wouldn't be named leader but if somehow he became leader, there would be aggressive protests.

Off topic-ish, but it reminds me of how Harper was called Hitler or a totalitarian by a surprising amount of lefties (and while other lefties did not share this view, they didn't correct them). Now we have Trump in office (who is not a Nazi) and actual Nazis surfacing in the US, and a "reformed" misogynist leading the provincial NDP.
Rap? What are you talking about? Was he rapping when he attacked and beat a cab driver? Was he rapping when he verbally assaulted the cabbie with racist insults? Was he rapping when he attacked his then-girlfriend numerous times? Was he rapping when he threatened to throw her off the balcony? Was he rapping when he lied about this just days ago? Was he rapping when when he made all those "off colour" jokes on twitter?

Breaking this down to a guy playing a rap character is really not accurate and downplays the seriousness. Being stupid in your youth might be an excuse to a certain point...but what age is it not an excuse? 25? 30? Making excuses for abusers is the opposite of what we should be doing.

Imagine if just ONE of these accusations was made against Pallister. The NDP would organize a fire & pitchforks mob to march all the way down to Costa Rica and force his resignation.
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  #1154  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 3:08 PM
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Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster View Post
Rap? What are you talking about? Was he rapping when he attacked and beat a cab driver? Was he rapping when he verbally assaulted the cabbie with racist insults? Was he rapping when he attacked his then-girlfriend numerous times? Was he rapping when he threatened to throw her off the balcony? Was he rapping when he lied about this just days ago? Was he rapping when when he made all those "off colour" jokes on twitter?

Breaking this down to a guy playing a rap character is really not accurate and downplays the seriousness. Being stupid in your youth might be an excuse to a certain point...but what age is it not an excuse? 25? 30? Making excuses for abusers is the opposite of what we should be doing.

Imagine if just ONE of these accusations was made against Pallister. The NDP would organize a fire & pitchforks mob to march all the way down to Costa Rica and force his resignation.
The bolded are allegations, and IMO cannot and should not be used against Kinew as:

1) the charges were dropped
2) only one side of the story has come to light,
3) story so far is from 3rd hand people who were not present when the alleged assault occurred.

Let's stick to the facts, as there are still plenty - and leave the Kinew's public trial and conviction on the dropped assault charges to the FP.
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  #1155  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 3:31 PM
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Doesn't seem to be too many members of "the public" making a big deal about this... as always, it's just media games. While I'm not excusing his past actions, the courts ruled as they did, and we have to respect that - that's what the system is for. He's been upfront about the whole thing.

As a society, most people tend to agree that people can change and learn from their mistakes. Most agree that former "criminals" can, and deserve a chance to right their wrongs and work hard for second chances. We wouldn't have a prison system and rehab and counselling if we didn't truly believe people can turn their lives around. I doubt you'll find many people who would say any type of crime means you shouldn't be allowed to ever hold a job again. Why do we get to apply different rules where we see fit?

Obviously people have the right to deeply question members of government as they are, and I think it's a good thing people are asking the tough, right questions. Kinew has handled this incredibly in my opinion: he's been open and honest anytime he's asked, and hasn't run away from the constant barrage of questions. He's openly admitted that he's had a shady past, and has learned from it. He's turned into a strong community leader and is an excellent example to our youth. Many people grow up in horrible conditions and are put in situations they don't want to be in, and he's a shining example that there's a way out. And he's more than paid back his due time.

I have a hard time believing he'd be getting the same treatment if he was white, and didn't used to rap about the tough conditions he grew up in. If anything, I think he's more qualified to lead a province with issues like Manitoba has, because he's been through them, and knows what it really is going to take to make a real difference here. And I am by no means an NDP faithful.
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  #1156  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 3:42 PM
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my problem with Wab is that he denies doing what his accuser said. I think he did it and I would respect him if he came clean. even vote for him maybe. I think Melissa Martin had a great article about the situation a few days back.

He hasn't been convicted it is true, but I just don't believe him.
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  #1157  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 4:08 PM
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my problem with Wab is that he denies doing what his accuser said. I think he did it and I would respect him if he came clean. even vote for him maybe. I think Melissa Martin had a great article about the situation a few days back.

He hasn't been convicted it is true, but I just don't believe him.
What you or anyone else believe has no bearing on charges that were dropped. There will be no court date, and no presentation of "facts" - on either side.

Melissa Martin's article was ridiculous, as she states the only way to move forward is for Kinew to "come clean" and "confess", etc - this is ridiculous because firstly what is Kinew confessing to? An assault that in the eyes of the justice system never occurred? He is going to confess that he actually committed a crime, even though the charges were dropped? Why would anyone ever do that?

What if his side of the story pins most of the blame on the accuser? Perhaps he doesn't want to start some giant he said/she said tabloid style circus.

It shouldn't be discussed the way it is being discussed because there is no legal basis in any of it. It's just opinions. Not facts. And the facts aren't going to come out. Move on to the charges he actually plead guilty to.
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  #1158  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 4:10 PM
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Double standard? Are you kidding me? Did you notice the criticism aimed at Obama over the years or the hate for Clinton? This shit goes both ways and always has.
Well, being across the border, that's far less applicable, but Obama gets a local and global love-in from nearly everyone. Sure people don't like him also, and that's fine. He definitely skips by.

Clinton? Which president has been more loved since Clinton? Perhaps Obama. Not Bush nor Trump. Furthermore, not only could he screw as he pleases and keep his job, he could also screw as he pleases while his wife nearly takes office.

You can't claim any hate against Clinton when his wife almost takes office.

Unless you're talking about Hillary. What's to like? Seriously... she's as corrupt as they come, funds repressive regimes and gets rich over it. For talking.

If nothing cearly emerges from this, it's a different country altogether.
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Originally Posted by biguc View Post
Yep. It just happens that in this province the NDP are first to sharpen their knives and the last to admit any fault from their own. Look at how Pat Martin used to carry on. He never drunkenly beat the shit out of a cab driver (that we know of) but he was not the messianic-if-flawed figure his supporters made him out to be.
I have yet to meet one person who had met Pat Martin that had a nice thing to say about him.
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Originally Posted by windypeg View Post
Interestingly, I've seen a lot of progressives saying things in Wab's defence that are the exact same types of things that they vilified people for saying in defence of Ghomeshi not that long ago. There is definitely a double standard.
Although I don't think you're inferring that Ghomeshi is conservative but yes, there are double standards... one is a media star, and has "male non-white money privilege", and oh shit, the other is the guy running the party that hates the first guy. Of course they have to cover their tracks, because it's not like they're ever going to be conservative capitalists and the provincial libs aren't really a thing. Rana Bokhari wasn't the hero needed to usurp the grasp the NDP has on the left in Manitoba, but damn did she get dragged through the mad for literally no reason.


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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
The only double standard that exists is that Kinew is given the benefit of doubt from the clueless hypocritical left because of what and who he supposedly represents.

Had Kinew and his baggage been trying to run for the cons. Or had been elected leader of a right of centre political party he would have been torn apart by the media. Apparently a criminal past, misogynistic views and abuse of the opposite sex is okay with those on the left as long as the person represents your interests.
This
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Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster View Post
Rap? What are you talking about? Was he rapping when he attacked and beat a cab driver? Was he rapping when he verbally assaulted the cabbie with racist insults? Was he rapping when he attacked his then-girlfriend numerous times? Was he rapping when he threatened to throw her off the balcony? Was he rapping when he lied about this just days ago? Was he rapping when when he made all those "off colour" jokes on twitter?

Breaking this down to a guy playing a rap character is really not accurate and downplays the seriousness. Being stupid in your youth might be an excuse to a certain point...but what age is it not an excuse? 25? 30? Making excuses for abusers is the opposite of what we should be doing.

Imagine if just ONE of these accusations was made against Pallister. The NDP would organize a fire & pitchforks mob to march all the way down to Costa Rica and force his resignation.
Well, most of his bullshit stems from his rap "career", at least publicly. Because of identity politics. I'm sure you could gather, based on my post, that I was primarily talking about his music. Beyond that, I only knew about the cab incident. Unjustifiable, but not what my post was about.
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Originally Posted by drew View Post
The bolded are allegations, and IMO cannot and should not be used against Kinew as:

1) the charges were dropped
2) only one side of the story has come to light,
3) story so far is from 3rd hand people who were not present when the alleged assault occurred.

Let's stick to the facts, as there are still plenty - and leave the Kinew's public trial and conviction on the dropped assault charges to the FP.
When you're running for public office, hell yes you can use that. Those are big accusations. When it comes to selecting a leader, if I was among the NDP, I'd say "yeah we can't spin this enough to make it work".

Gord Steeves wife's comments about being harrassed by drunken natives killed his mayoral bid. True comments.

Let that sink in. Women's safety concerns were trumped by the mere inclusion of race, despite the fact that she was harassed. That's far more removed from Steeves or even indecency than the allegations Wab faces, true or not.

Steeves is conservative though...
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Originally Posted by Tacheguy View Post
my problem with Wab is that he denies doing what his accuser said. I think he did it and I would respect him if he came clean. even vote for him maybe. I think Melissa Martin had a great article about the situation a few days back.

He hasn't been convicted it is true, but I just don't believe him.
well of course he'll deny it, because he could go to jail...
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  #1159  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 4:16 PM
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When you're running for public office, hell yes you can use that. Those are big accusations. When it comes to selecting a leader, if I was among the NDP, I'd say "yeah we can't spin this enough to make it work".

Gord Steeves wife's comments about being harrassed by drunken natives killed his mayoral bid. True comments.

Let that sink in. Women's safety concerns were trumped by the mere inclusion of race, despite the fact that she was harassed. That's far more removed from Steeves or even indecency than the allegations Wab faces, true or not.
The court of public opinion can certainly "judge" Kinew on these charges. Absolutely. He put himself and his past out there, and has to deal with the repercussions.

My issue is the that somehow he is automatically guilty of this "crime" or that he somehow needs to confess. It is ridiculous IMO and indefensible that the FP and its journalists can carry on with these published stories that assume guilt on a person who will never see his day in court on dropped charges. They know better than this, and we should all be smarter than this.
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  #1160  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 4:54 PM
Tacheguy Tacheguy is offline
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The court of public opinion can certainly "judge" Kinew on these charges. Absolutely. He put himself and his past out there, and has to deal with the repercussions.

My issue is the that somehow he is automatically guilty of this "crime" or that he somehow needs to confess. It is ridiculous IMO and indefensible that the FP and its journalists can carry on with these published stories that assume guilt on a person who will never see his day in court on dropped charges. They know better than this, and we should all be smarter than this.
I think you are confusing a legal standard of proof with a personal political position based on a subjective reading of events. that isn't smart either. opinion pieces are fine as long as they don't mistake factual information.
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