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  #1241  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2018, 3:31 PM
dmacc dmacc is offline
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Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway View Post
What, pray tell, would be an intelligent rebuttal to "Why is it that those on the left always attack those on the right and never offer a logical and coherent rebuttal?"
Well, I wish I had looked further back into the conversation. You did provide a very thought out response. Sorry for unnecessarily attacking what I thought was a childish response.

Though I still disagree with you over the refugee topic. I had an employee who was a permanent resident or here on a work visa trying to get her citizenship. She was one of the hardest working employee's we had and was a tax paying person from the moment she came to this country. She felt very defeated because the system kept bumping her and slowing down her aplication because refugee's get processed first. Because she kept getting bumped and bogged down she missed out on things like being enrolled in health care, trying to pay for her daughters university (which is incredibly expensive when you're considered an international student). Meanwhile, someone who isn't coming from a war torn or disaster stricken country is crossing the boarder claiming refugee status and bumping her back.

Not only that but this refugee is now costing the government at minimum $50,000 for the first year. How is it fair that the woman who moved here through the proper channels and contributes to the betterment of the country is put at a disadvantage and the individual who is draining resources is provided an expedited route and easier opportunity?
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  #1242  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2018, 4:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dmacc View Post
She felt very defeated because the system kept bumping her and slowing down her aplication because refugee's get processed first.
That means a change to the bureaucracy is needed. We should accept refugee AND non-refugee immigrants. Accepting one should not negate the other.

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Originally Posted by dmacc View Post
Meanwhile, someone who isn't coming from a war torn or disaster stricken country is crossing the boarder claiming refugee status
Just because someone crosses from the US doesn't mean they're not coming from a war torn or disaster stricken country. Refugees often have to cross several countries before they reach a safe haven. If a country is simply going to deport you back without considering your plight, it's not a safe haven. These days that includes that US.

Heck; the US is even deporting the DREAMers now. Folks who by definition have US military service or a college degree, and who have a clean legal record. Folks who any rational person would want as fellow citizens.
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  #1243  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2018, 4:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Strong View Post
Accepting one should not negate the other.
I think you're half right, one shouldn't negate the other but I would rather help someone coming directly from a situation of severe hardship and fear for ones life. Someone who has already been properly vetted by our country. I don't like the idea of someone crossing our boarder without knowledge as to why they are fleeing the US. Most people fleeing to Canada from the US aren't from a country on a ban list.

For the most part Canada and the US's refugee criteria are the same. Many have been deemed ineligible in the US and will likely be deemed so in Canada. That is the waste in resources we should be preventing.
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  #1244  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2018, 8:06 PM
Curmudgeon Curmudgeon is offline
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Originally Posted by Ando View Post
You describe yourself as a centrist? I think you're having a severe identity crisis.
Nonsense. Current immigration policy is questioned by those of all political persuasions. Historically it was the left that was most cautious on immigration in accordance with their position that mass immigration, most especially during times of sluggish economic growth, depresses wages and inflates shelter costs and benefits only corporations and the rentier class.

The type of hyper-emotionalism and adherence to identity politics that characterizes your post serves to only stifle and distort rational debate.
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  #1245  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2018, 9:28 PM
Ando Ando is offline
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Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Nonsense. Current immigration policy is questioned by those of all political persuasions. Historically it was the left that was most cautious on immigration in accordance with their position that mass immigration, most especially during times of sluggish economic growth, depresses wages and inflates shelter costs and benefits only corporations and the rentier class.

The type of hyper-emotionalism and adherence to identity politics that characterizes your post serves to only stifle and distort rational debate.
Wow. Get histrionic much? I apologize, I was thrown off by your extreme right wing views. Honest mistake.
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  #1246  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2018, 8:46 PM
Wolf13 Wolf13 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post
No.

This will never happen. Have you ever read about the prohibition of alcohol? The people who bought illegal booze did not suddenly switch to heroin or cocaine, once prohibition ended. They simply bought booze legally. The same will happen with pot. You're just repeating the same argument that the anti-legalization groups spew out. Nothing will change if marijuana becomes legal. Numerous studies in North America and Europe have proven this for nearly a century.

Besides, one can argue the biggest pusher of min altering drugs is the pharmaceutical industry. Death from overdoses of opiods and opiod derivatives has risen dramatically in the last 15 years.
First off, I'm not a prohibitionist or anti-legalizationist. Not sure that's a word. I was pro legalization until I learned from friends of mine, both educated psychologists and active in vulnerable communities and with youth say exactly this.

Secondly, not even remotely similar, because a social norm was taken away. Alcohol was legally, socially, maybe even morally established, and then it was gone.

Thirdly, there are a lot of studies that can say whatever you want on any subject matter if there's money in it.

Fourth, I've invested a decent amount, carefully, into weed. So I stand to benefit.
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Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg View Post
In the age of Donald J. Trump that statement is actually pretty funny.
Not to be an ass, but how liberals feel about trump is how conservatives have felt for a while, especially with media being liberal-driven

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Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Nonsense. Current immigration policy is questioned by those of all political persuasions. Historically it was the left that was most cautious on immigration in accordance with their position that mass immigration, most especially during times of sluggish economic growth, depresses wages and inflates shelter costs and benefits only corporations and the rentier class.

The type of hyper-emotionalism and adherence to identity politics that characterizes your post serves to only stifle and distort rational debate.
+1
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  #1247  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2018, 9:07 PM
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^You didn't gain on your pot investment today, I can tell you that much.
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  #1248  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2018, 9:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolf13 View Post
Not to be an ass, but how liberals feel about trump is how conservatives have felt for a while, especially with media being liberal-driven
Facts have SUCH a lib'rul bias!
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  #1249  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2018, 9:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolf13 View Post

Not to be an ass, but how liberals feel about trump is how conservatives have felt for a while, especially with media being liberal-driven
What makes you think I'm left or liberal? Trump is just a childish narcissistic fool to anyone paying attention, left or right, whatever.
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  #1250  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2018, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg View Post
What makes you think I'm left or liberal? Trump is just a childish narcissistic fool to anyone paying attention, left or right, whatever.
People who start out their sentences "not to be an ass" usually are being an ...
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  #1251  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2018, 11:00 PM
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CNN and the New York Times beat the war drums for years leading up the American invasions of Iraq and Libya. They are doing much the same today regarding Iran. Liberal driven media my ass..
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  #1252  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2018, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Tacheguy View Post
CNN and the New York Times beat the war drums for years leading up the American invasions of Iraq and Libya. They are doing much the same today regarding Iran. Liberal driven media my ass..
Just so. CNN and the New York Times are considered left-wing because while they'll go to great lengths to avoid making Republican leaders look bad, unlike Fox and Breitbart they won't go to utterly ridiculous, only-a-pig-ignorant-inbred-would-believe-this lengths to avoid it.
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  #1253  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2018, 3:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Strong View Post
Just so. CNN and the New York Times are considered left-wing because while they'll go to great lengths to avoid making Republican leaders look bad, unlike Fox and Breitbart they won't go to utterly ridiculous, only-a-pig-ignorant-inbred-would-believe-this lengths to avoid it.
So stupid. All of it.

Real investigative news/journalism exists these days in few places. Read anything here and tell me otherwise:

https://consortiumnews.com
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  #1254  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2018, 5:30 AM
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Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg View Post
Real investigative news/journalism exists these days in few places. Read anything here and tell me otherwise:
That's mixed bag. There's a variety of authors, and a variety of credibility. I get the impression that it used to have a whole lot more credibility before its founder died.

But the current lead story backing Trump's "the Deep State conjured up Russia-gate" wingnuttery is so unhinged that it might as well have come from InfoWars.

Other stories are full of denial of Russia trying to influence the US election. Denial that Putin's critics in Russia tend to have short lifespans. Claims that neo-Nazis overthrew the pro-Russia Ukrainian government.

I'm sensing a pattern there.
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  #1255  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2018, 3:41 PM
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OTA in Winnipeg OTA in Winnipeg is offline
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Originally Posted by Roger Strong View Post
That's mixed bag. There's a variety of authors, and a variety of credibility. I get the impression that it used to have a whole lot more credibility before its founder died.

But the current lead story backing Trump's "the Deep State conjured up Russia-gate" wingnuttery is so unhinged that it might as well have come from InfoWars.

Other stories are full of denial of Russia trying to influence the US election. Denial that Putin's critics in Russia tend to have short lifespans. Claims that neo-Nazis overthrew the pro-Russia Ukrainian government.

I'm sensing a pattern there.
Yeah, he died Saturday night. Read an article or two instead of skimming the headlines.

https://consortiumnews.com/2018/01/2...onsortiumnews/
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  #1256  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2018, 4:37 PM
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So it went InfoWars *before* he died.

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Read an article or two instead of skimming the headlines.
Take your own advice.
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  #1257  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2018, 7:53 PM
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So it went InfoWars *before* he died.



Take your own advice.
I did. While I can't attest to all the writers who contribute to the site the ones that I have read have been quite informative. The questionable intelligence on the sarin gas report in Syria was certainly an interesting read. Did you read the column that his son wrote in the last link that I posted? It's about how and why the site began. Anyways, to each their own.
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  #1258  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2018, 10:24 PM
Wolf13 Wolf13 is offline
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Holy crap guys, overreact much?

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Originally Posted by Roger Strong View Post
Facts have SUCH a lib'rul bias!
that would be a very biased, pro-liberal statement but yeah, we can all have our views
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Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg View Post
What makes you think I'm left or liberal? Trump is just a childish narcissistic fool to anyone paying attention, left or right, whatever.
I didn't say you were left or liberal. Trump, while conservative, is very childish. However, while childish, he's done amazing things for the economy with his tax strategies. As a conservative, THAT part appeals to me. Factoring in how he behaves, I tend to pick and choose what I do and don't like about the guy, nor did I say I was pro-Trump.

However, when some liberals complain about him, I have little sympathy.
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Originally Posted by Ando View Post
People who start out their sentences "not to be an ass" usually are being an ...
I find it odd that you'd say this, because all I did was try to soften how I came across and I did not go at anyone.

But then you just called me an ass.

So who's the ass?

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Originally Posted by Tacheguy View Post
CNN and the New York Times beat the war drums for years leading up the American invasions of Iraq and Libya. They are doing much the same today regarding Iran. Liberal driven media my ass..
Just because they talk about some wars does not mean they are suddenly not liberal minded or driven.

If we can say that "anyone with eyes and ears" can see trump's immaturity, we can definitely see the same in a majority of media outlets, including NYT and CNN. SSP seems to be the only arena where I've encountered denial of this.
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  #1259  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2018, 12:03 AM
Tacheguy Tacheguy is offline
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Wouldn't a liberal media have put Bernie Sanders front and centre rather than ignore him in favour of the Wall Street champion? Or questioned the Wall Street bailout post 08? Or made a case for the single payer health care system at the time Obamacare was developed? Or even dare to open people's eyes about the size and consequences of the military budget? These are some of the issues a truly liberal media would be all over. The media has been cowed by the sloganeering of the right. People need to get down to cases when forming opinions instead of embracing cliches.
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  #1260  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2018, 4:54 PM
Wolf13 Wolf13 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tacheguy View Post
Wouldn't a liberal media have put Bernie Sanders front and centre rather than ignore him in favour of the Wall Street champion? Or questioned the Wall Street bailout post 08? Or made a case for the single payer health care system at the time Obamacare was developed? Or even dare to open people's eyes about the size and consequences of the military budget? These are some of the issues a truly liberal media would be all over. The media has been cowed by the sloganeering of the right. People need to get down to cases when forming opinions instead of embracing cliches.
Goodness, we can drum up billions of cases of opinion is subtly misrepresented as "facts" or news".

Bernie Sanders got a hell of a lot of endorsing from all media despite not having an actual clue how to lead a functioning country under his ideas (note: didn't say Trump knows either). Clearly he got duped by the powers that be among the democrats, who saw Hillary as their demon, errr, champion. When the media started to accurately realize that he was out of his depth, they very corruptly joined the campaign to get Hillary picked. That's an internal problem with the dems and the media.

EVERYONE EVERYWHERE has questioned the bailout. Just because some outlets talk about "all sides" of the issues does not mean they aren't leaning left. As a right leaning person, I've long seen a liberal angle fairly depicted, with a contrarian conservative opinion presented poorly, deliberately.

We're also not talking about "truly" liberal media, but rather a manipulative liberal media, that has to actually pretend to be somewhat centrist. Problem is that conservatives see the pretending clearly when conservative viewpoints are butchered in their presentation.

Regardless, this forum and maybe my younger friends facebook are literally the only places I've actually seen people assume political neutrality in the media. Every other forum, arena, professional spectrum and even social, it's a known thing.
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