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  #13821  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2011, 12:55 PM
SamInTheLoop SamInTheLoop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ If a developer could build a retail center and fill it with small local businesses, be confident that he or she will make enough rental income to pay off his loan, pay utility bills and property taxes, and still generate an income that gets a good return on the investment, then that would be wonderful.

That is the dynamic that determines whether things get built or not, not some passionate pleas of a die hard urbanist.

I became less of an idealist very recently, when reality spanked me in the eye and I realized just how much building & construction costs as well as property taxes EAT the hell out of your profits in this city, from my personal experience. I have to pay some douche bag $200 just to submit the city a letter (which he doesn't even have to write) that he will be involved with my rehab project (which he won't), because the city requires a licensed concrete worker with a license to work with brick (which my project won't require)--union rules, I'm sure.

In this shitty economy, only large companies like Walgreens and Bank of America can put up with this bullshit and expand all over town. In a better economy, maybe Habib's Hookah Lounge and Kabob eatery can do the same, but right now that's GOTTA BE a bit hard! If you really want to see more small, interesting businesses in this city proliferate, then tell your Alderman and your Mayor to make it less expensive to build, renovate, and/or operate a business in this city.

Despite this argument, yes I continue to bitch and moan about strip malls at North/Clybourn but that is different--you've got a highly trafficked area, a renovated subway stop, tons of investment, and tons of national chains--the city can easily require some basic design standards here, but it chooses not to. But Peterson and Richmond? Different story..

Really, really agree. Chicago's red tape and expenses for small businesses and entrepreneurs is a big problem. I do think it has a really negative impact on small, independent and unique retail here. The city likes to cut big breaks for large corporations to help rationalize the bureaucracy and cost for their expansion, but for small retailers and other small businesses, it's a daunting and very expensive proposition to launch something here (putting just the pure real estate expenses aside) as compared with many other cities. Our government should be spending at least as much time, money and effort - if not more - on small business issues as it does on big. I was thinking a lot about this recently after doing a lot of walking in New York, including some parts of Manhattan I hadn't spent too much time in before. Yes, there's the density issue - but beyond that, I do really think New York and several other large cities do a much better job public policy-wise with creating a conducive environment to small retailer and business formation and expansion...
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Last edited by SamInTheLoop; Nov 3, 2011 at 1:45 PM.
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  #13822  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2011, 3:36 PM
emathias emathias is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
...
I became less of an idealist very recently, when reality spanked me in the eye and I realized just how much building & construction costs as well as property taxes EAT the hell out of your profits in this city, from my personal experience. I have to pay some douche bag $200 just to submit the city a letter (which he doesn't even have to write) that he will be involved with my rehab project (which he won't), because the city requires a licensed concrete worker with a license to work with brick (which my project won't require)--union rules, I'm sure.
...
I don't have any direct experience with this, but I have to admit I've been amazed at how long it takes to get a restaurant off the ground here. Many months go by between the time a lease is signed and I see places open. It's really annoying as a resident, because those dark, vacant spaces suck the life out of streets while nothing moves on them. If it was just one or two places, I'd assume they were just unlucky or run by incompetent boobs, but it happens with such frequency that I have to assume the incompetent boobs are the people running the city government and not, for the most part, the small businesses.
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  #13823  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2011, 3:59 PM
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  #13824  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2011, 4:44 PM
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  #13825  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2011, 5:41 PM
lawfin lawfin is offline
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ Most of Chicago was built by speculative developers. That was not different 120 years ago.
Undoubtedly, and nothing in my statement says otherwise. The difference is in the characteristics of those speculative developers....a redundancy I might add....
...my comment was in reaction you your use of the term "retail center" which at least in my mind called to mind mega-block development not the plot by plot development or perhaps a few plots by a few plots that was more characteristic when Chicago's more successful neighborhood retail strips were built.

Are you in fact claiming that policy makes no difference or that aldermanic perspective is irrelevant? That it is all simply the market doing its 'magic'? I mean your commentary re regulatory burden I think is case in point to an environment that favors national chains as they have deeper pockets etc. That needs to be changed to put smaller retailers and smaller developers on a more equal footing.

I mean I was at a meeting with my parents...they are quite old.....with their alderman. The topic being discussed was development in WR near the peterson / western corridor along both western and peterson. Someone in trhe crowd brought up andersonville......one of the more successful small parcel primarily local retail / commercial strips in the city. They wanted to know why their area couldn't foster more style retail like andersonville versus things like the new parko-Walgreens and now apparently a drive thru Starbucks.

The Alderman's answer was "Why do we need that. We already have andersonville. If you want local restaurants go to Andersonville......" (this is a paraphrase I don't recall the actual quote.

With aldermanic perspective such as that it is not coincidental that we get what he wishes for.

As for "work-live" "live-work" etc here are a few quick articles. It is not quite as straightforward as you apparently envisage:

http://www.worldchanging.com/local/c...es/005442.html
http://www.skylinenewspaper.com/News...here_they_work

http://www.chicagoartistsresource.org/dance/node/8686 for an into into the real life influence of the zoning code

an interactive map of zoning. Note the strip of western is almost entirely c2 classification all but assuring suburban autocentric strip development vs the bx-x zoning of most of devon for instance.

https://gisapps.cityofchicago.org/zo...?Submit=Accept



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  #13826  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2011, 8:50 PM
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^^^^Re the drive thru starbucks in the above. I only just saw the plans moments ago and can say without reservation that they are a disaster from any urban planning standpoint. There is to be ~4500 sq of total commercial space and 40 street front parking spaces with an additional curb cut onto to Western.

All parking is street fronting and the stores themselves are recessed toward the back of the plot...though behind there is a "private alley" for the parko-Walgreens and the drive thru Starbuck's

All in all this is a worst case scenario at this parcel...it is worse than an empty lot the architect is

Camburas & Theodore

http://www.camburasandtheodore.com/

I really think the neighborhood should commission their own traffic impact study and consider filing for a TRO based on nuisance for the increase in traffic this thing is clearly designed to establish. Though realistically that would be an extraordinarily high burden to climb given the c2-2 zoning of the plot in question.....


ahhhhhh!
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  #13827  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2011, 1:40 AM
i_am_hydrogen i_am_hydrogen is offline
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Jones College Prep



Existing building


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  #13828  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2011, 12:30 AM
i_am_hydrogen i_am_hydrogen is offline
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Pelli-designed DePaul theater building

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Last edited by i_am_hydrogen; Nov 6, 2011 at 3:35 PM.
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  #13829  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2011, 7:45 AM
N830MH N830MH is offline
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Is that movie theatres?
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  #13830  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2011, 9:11 AM
denizen467 denizen467 is offline
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Petronas-designed
hydro, freudian?


Were you hoping for a very large array of towers here?
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  #13831  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2011, 2:51 PM
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Originally Posted by N830MH View Post
Is that movie theatres?
No it's the new Theatre School:

(image taken from e-Architect; http://www.e-architect.co.uk/america...tre_school.htm)
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  #13832  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2011, 3:04 PM
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Co-incidentally, even though it isn't in the the Chicagoland area, Pelli Clarke Pelli also designed the Performing Arts School/Center for Western Illinois University in Macomb, which broke ground last April:

(image also from e-Architect: http://www.e-architect.co.uk/chicago...ty_theater.htm)
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  #13833  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2011, 3:53 PM
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The first Radisson BLU opened in the Aqua on Tues, and reviews have been very good - there's a space between the long narrow main lobby and where the ballrooms are located facing the LSE park, which is (very cleverly) a gallery,showcasing primarily Chicago artists.

As I was reading reviews about the BLU, I came across information about the Langham hotel, which is opening a new Chicago outpost in 2013, in the IBM building. The 5-star hotel will occupy floors 2-13, and have 320 luxury rooms - there is already a website for the Langham Chicago which has some very nice renderings (all images taken from the website):
http://chicago.langhamhotels.com/index.html













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  #13834  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2011, 4:03 PM
i_am_hydrogen i_am_hydrogen is offline
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My bad, I meant Pelli, not Petronas.
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  #13835  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2011, 5:41 PM
Rizzo Rizzo is offline
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Great to see those of the Langham. My desk has a view of the IBM building and it's depressing to look at. So many vacant floors in that building.
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  #13836  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2011, 6:33 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Wow, so we've got the Langham, the Virgin Hotel, the McCormick Hotel expansion, and the 3 hotel project moving forward, at the least.

This despite the fact that the local hotel industry has only partially recovered. Anyone else worried about a hotel glut? We're building new hotels while the Staybridge project remains a shell under torn plastic sheeting
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  #13837  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2011, 6:47 PM
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Considering there are more hotels to come (not yet announced) in that area between the River and Millennium Park...just a bit concerned.
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  #13838  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2011, 6:49 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Considering there are more hotels to come (not yet announced) in that area between the River and Millennium Park...just a bit concerned.
^ Eh? Care to share?
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  #13839  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2011, 8:03 PM
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I think that there is enough demand though to warrant all of these new hospitality projects coming up, and any new ones to be announced in 2012. On a much more general level and most recent census population figures aside, I firmly believe that Chicago is growing as a large swath of the center of the City continues to develop, gentrify and even attract more outside attention. For example, if everything goes (relatively) smoothly during the G8 Summit/Nato summit next May, it might impress international visitors enough to want to return in whatever capacity, formal or otherwise.

I feel that type of visibility requires expanded attention to hospitality concerns; high-concept, highly acclaimed/world-class dining as the first part of the equation, and an expansion of high-end hotel options being another part of that equation; shrewd developers/hoteliers are very aware of this as there is always a financial need to expand, especially to markets that are not currently saturated and won't be for at least the next half-decade, post-recession era concerns aside - Chicago fits that model like a glove as it's still relatively cheap enough to open a business such as a 5-star hotel compared to coastal US locations, while simultaneously garnering enough visibility that brings added curiosity and attention from outside of the US.

Projects like the Staybridge Suites were perhaps too expensive when originally constructed and didn't make fiscal sense after a certain time... but nothing stays the same for long and even that project will find a new owner soon enough.
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  #13840  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2011, 8:13 PM
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Beta_Magellan Beta_Magellan is offline
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I think the key thing to note is that parts of Chicago are growing—the city’s incredibly uneven, but the prospects of “global Chicago” can be quite good even if those of “rust belt Chicago” are terrible—the main question is the degree that one pulls on the other.

In any event, I’ve read (and couldn’t find good a link in eight seconds of googling) that tourism from abroad’s beginning to emerge as a bright spot in the national economy, so a slew of hotel development might make sense, although my intuition would say it’s still a bit early.
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