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  #221  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2013, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Townie709 View Post
We shall agree to disagree. I feel absolutely no need to defend myself and my opinions to one of much greater intelligence than I. One thing about my analogies.. and much of what I say, never take me seriously haha. There's usually some kind of joke/sarcastic comment hidden within.. xD That "more people" thing was a joke. I thought I made that quite obvious.

Please forgive me for stepping out of line, having an opinion and having a light-hearted additude. It will never happen again, Master
You're being so sarcastic - what's your deal? You just didn't correctly read my post, and instead you just made all of these snarky comments with roll-eye emoticons...

I don't feel like I am smarter than you (I don't even know you!) which would make it impossible for me to know that I should 'never take you seriously'.

You're comparing preserving heritage buildings to preserving the holocaust? I don't think there is anything funny about that.
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  #222  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2013, 10:45 PM
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i think things are being blown WAY out of proportion lol!! time to relax b'y have a cup of tea and get back to how we normally chat without being all defensive and confrontational

we functioned for years having constructive conversations even with some more extreme forumers but it was never like this
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  #223  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2013, 10:45 PM
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It seems I'm on the outside of this discuassion, but will give my two cents here anyway.

^ I think they will eventually be torn down anyway. If the right development comes along it will be interesting to see how many people would protest their demolition. I just don't see a developer in St. John's with the right experience or expertise to be able to integrate these within a new development.

Edit: And I don't think the discussions are going that badly. If you have these issues, there are always areas that you won't agree on. It's an old argument between preservation and development. Some Nflders don't see the value in certain structures that some of us do after living off the rock for a few years. Often the notion of what is "heritage" is narrowly restricted to things that seem unique to Nfld. but at the same time are common and ubiquitous, and often don't include anything outside those margins.

Integration of development and heritage is the best answer in certain cases.

Last edited by Architype; Mar 25, 2013 at 10:57 PM.
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  #224  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2013, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jeddy1989 View Post
i think things are being blown WAY out of proportion lol!! time to relax b'y have a cup of tea and get back to how we normally chat without being all defensive and confrontational

we functioned for years having constructive conversations even with some more extreme forumers but it was never like this
I agree, Jeddy. I tried to do damage control after my first comment but I am being antagonized now, needlessly. I am firm in my beliefs on urbanism and architecture - but I hope I am not one of these 'extreme forumers' haha... as I am capable of having confrontation-free discussions.
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  #225  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2013, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mrjanejacobs View Post
You're being so sarcastic - what's your deal? You just didn't correctly read my post, and instead you just made all of these snarky comments with roll-eye emoticons...

I don't feel like I am smarter than you (I don't even know you!) which would make it impossible for me to know that I should 'never take you seriously'.

You're comparing preserving heritage buildings to preserving the holocaust? I don't think there is anything funny about that.
Hey, don't insult the roll-eye emoticon! He's my bud! haha (that was called a joke)

You know what I need? A nice break from this. I didn't sign up here to be criticized, or to argue/antagonize others. I signed up to have a friendly, positive discussion about development in this city. The friendly and positive part seems to be missing around here lately. I'll be back after a break. Until then, I can find other ways to spend my time. Loves y'all, peace out

Last edited by Townie709; Mar 26, 2013 at 2:12 AM.
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  #226  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2013, 1:11 AM
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Originally Posted by mrjanejacobs View Post
Copes - you're describing the most extreme cases of something being deemed 'heritage'. If it's historical (old) and it contributes to the culture, place, identity of a group, organization, individual or era, then it's of heritage value. St.John's is an extremely historic city - it used to be one of the biggest City's in Canada and a huge economic hub. We need to protect every last bit of 'old'/historical/heritage buildings we have. We have already lost too much of it.

Why demolish them when there are lots of empty lots on all sides? Why are we trying to tear down 2 of the only 3 heritage buildings in the downtown west-end when there's an abundance of surface-parking space and old, non-heritage buildings?
My thoughts are that these buildings do not contribute to the culture, place, identity, etc. of the area. The area, by and large, is an abandoned neighborhood. If it was, say, the supreme court, or the George Street Church, I would have a serious issue with taking those down. But I personally don't think that these buildings are nearly as significant, at least, to the majority. Perhaps I don't have as much of an appreciation for heritage as some, but I do not feel that we should restrict ourselves from knocking down something old if there isn't an active part of many people's lives. From what I can tell, these buildings do not fall into MY definition of worthy heritage, and so I'm not a huge proponent of keeping them around.

As to the number of available lots downtown, I assure you that space is indeed an issue. We also want to keep in mind that we want to keep everything together... create our own CBD in the west-end. The reason I am so big on the west-end, is that for the most part the buildings are abandoned, or contribute to the general decay of the neighbourhood because of their state of disrepair. I include the Harbour Light and Salvation Army buildings in this description. I, personally, don't consider those buildings to be any sort of neighbourhood catalyst worth preserving; that honor goes to the George Street Church, which I would fight tooth and nail to keep.

I worry sometimes that people in St. John's are too quick to deem something heritage, and that holds us back (not calling you out specifically in this instance, I am just speaking in general terms now). I feel that this has slowed downtown development, and perhaps made me less than inviting to the notion of "heritage" buildings. Could be the case.

Sorry if that was a rambling answer. I'm falling asleep here, and I do not deem this post up to my usual standard. If I have been unclear or rambling I will clarify in the morning. I had thoughts... but I question if I expressed them well.
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  #227  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2013, 2:41 AM
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If I might way in SOLELY on opinion, I don't see how much on that end of town is special. Could someone please explain the significance of those aforementioned buildings?
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  #228  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2013, 2:42 AM
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*weigh

Damn I was trying hard not to misspell!
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  #229  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2013, 2:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Townie709 View Post
Harbour Light is ugly, run down and fake. Salvation army is nothing more than a concrete box. I really hope Harbour Light is torn down and I'm indifferent on the Salvation Army. This site has the potential to be a great highrise location! Something tall and skinny with underground parking would be spectacular!

I don't like either of the buildings that are currently there and very few of the 6 people that notice them in the run of the year will care if they disappear. But it would be cool if they worked the salvation army building, or maybe just the front facade into the development.
Agreed!
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  #230  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2013, 4:45 AM
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If I might way in SOLELY on opinion, I don't see how much on that end of town is special. Could someone please explain the significance of those aforementioned buildings?
The Harbour Light a 105 year old building, and the concrete box is a former S.A. Temple (a unique church) which is 71 years old. Newfoundland is one of the few places where the Salvation Army was adopted as an actual religion with a large following. However, both buildings have not been maintained properly, so their heritage value is in some doubt. That area of town is actually very historic, one of the oldest districts in the city, contains the city's oldest standing United (former Methodist) Church (1873), and used to have working class houses lining most of these small side streets; it also had a vibrant commercial area, but now it's mostly vacant buildings, parking lots and unused sites. The few other buildings that are still used leave much to be desired aesthetically regardless of age, so the opinions expressed here all have some validity. The vision among forumers here identifies that area as the center of a new CBD.

http://goo.gl/maps/DcyMA

Last edited by Architype; Mar 26, 2013 at 4:56 AM.
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  #231  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2013, 3:41 PM
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And I'll gladly stand along with you guys on that!
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  #232  
Old Posted May 2, 2013, 5:21 PM
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With something happening at Harbour Light and the proposed extension to 434 Water Street, if the developers got together, do you think the City would allow them to close off that section of George Street West and build one big development there?

Also, I think Steele Hotel bought those three lots on Springdale (just North of Hr. Light)
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  #233  
Old Posted May 2, 2013, 6:03 PM
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Depending on how big it was. If it was just for a long 6 story building, I would say no way. But if it was say.. A 20 story office building complete with a parkade and an indoor shopping center, than I would be all for it. It depends on the magnitude of the development, for me. If it was something very beneficial to the area, I would support it, but if it was something that wouldn't really benefit the public, than I would oppose any changes to the grid-like structure that's there now.

That's just my personal opinion. Other forumers are welcome to disagree
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  #234  
Old Posted May 2, 2013, 6:04 PM
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Originally Posted by A325 View Post
With something happening at Harbour Light and the proposed extension to 434 Water Street, if the developers got together, do you think the City would allow them to close off that section of George Street West and build one big development there?

Also, I think Steele Hotel bought those three lots on Springdale (just North of Hr. Light)
^are you talking about those houses on New Gower Street? If so I have a friend who lives there so I may be able to confirm.
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  #235  
Old Posted May 2, 2013, 6:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly View Post
^are you talking about those houses on New Gower Street? If so I have a friend who lives there so I may be able to confirm.
I think he is talking about the 3 on Springdale that are all abandoned / run down. They face the Fortis Building. I know one has been for sale for a while for like $750,000 simply because it has a (very small) corner that fronts onto New Gower.
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  #236  
Old Posted May 2, 2013, 6:10 PM
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I thought he was talking about the HarbourLight/Salvation Army site and the StatOil building- where they wanted to build the 6 story extension.
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  #237  
Old Posted May 2, 2013, 6:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Copes View Post
I think he is talking about the 3 on Springdale that are all abandoned / run down. They face the Fortis Building. I know one has been for sale for a while for like $750,000 simply because it has a (very small) corner that fronts onto New Gower.
Ah I know this area. Solid area for some sort of development, definitely better than what's there now (a run down old garage?)
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  #238  
Old Posted May 2, 2013, 7:25 PM
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I'm talking about the two houses and empty lot on Springdale Street just up from the Salvation Army.

I also saw that the motorcycle shop building is for sale now too.

Townie instead of Statoil Building I think you meant Technip
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  #239  
Old Posted May 2, 2013, 7:27 PM
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Awesome. I hope something great goes there. Like our first tall, thin tower.
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  #240  
Old Posted May 2, 2013, 8:01 PM
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Originally Posted by A325 View Post
I'm talking about the two houses and empty lot on Springdale Street just up from the Salvation Army.

I also saw that the motorcycle shop building is for sale now too.

Townie instead of Statoil Building I think you meant Technip

Oh okay, well I'm all for a partnership in that area! Although I can't see how it anything built there would block of any of George St. West. Would be a great place for something tall!
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