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  #161  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2011, 10:12 PM
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hmmmm

Official plan rules to be made clearer
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Of...830/story.html
Firming up language would be positive, development exec says

BY JOANNE CHIANELLO, OTTAWA CITIZEN FEBRUARY 15, 2011


City council will begin in the next few weeks to lay out a four-year plan to clarify the language in the official plan in the hopes of taking some of the conflict out of development projects.

"It's obvious we need to spend more time on policy and less on the transactional side of individual projects," said Councillor Peter Hume, the chairman of council's planning committee. "You'll see the work plan for new policy wording coming to committee. There will be discussion and debate."

The plan could be submitted to council by as early as the end of March, after the 2011 budget is finalized.

Over the past week, Hume held three days' worth of information sessions on the city's complex planning issues, including everything from how the city's planning department works to the rules that govern the Ontario Municipal Board, which is the body that hears appeals on council's planning decisions.

One issue brought before councillors -- at least the councillors who happened to be at the spottily attended meetings -- was that community expectations are often not in line with the rules that govern new developments.

One reasons for this is that the official plan is sometimes open to interpretation. For example, it calls for a maximum height of six storeys for buildings on traditional main-streets, but other areas allow for exceptions tin certain circumstances. The public perception, at least, is developers always apply for exceptions and are almost always successful.

Jack Stirling, vice-president of land development for Minto, was one of three development executives who spoke to councillors Monday about the costs and time that go into a new development.

When asked if he believed the building industry would be amenable to firming up the language in the official plan, he said that more clarity would be positive, unless "it becomes too specific, too detailed ... then it takes away opportunity for design and vision."

Stirling said he understood that the community wanted a certain level of assurance, but was concerned that the city was too focused on the height of buildings instead of the design and architectural features of proposed projects.

"We get into an argument about whether a development should be five storeys or eight storeys, and I don't really understand what the impact of that is to a community," Stirling said.

One of the impacts of height is sunlight and shadow issues, Capital ward Councillor David Chernushenko said.

Putting a maximum limit on buildings in certain areas of the city -- with exceptions in truly rare cases -- is an issue sure to be contentious during the upcoming debates.

"We need to get more pre scriptive, we need to be more precise," Chernushenko said.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen
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  #162  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2011, 1:27 PM
Ottawan Ottawan is offline
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In Egypt right now they are rewriting the constitution of the entire country in 10 days. In Ottawa, it takes a four year plan to clarify language in an official plan.
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  #163  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2011, 11:32 PM
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OBJ: Urban Boundary Debate, the final round
http://www.obj.ca/Real%20Estate/Resi...-final-round/1
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  #164  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2011, 6:25 PM
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Here is my recommendation:

* There should be no set boundary, except for areas like Mer Bleue and other wetland areas and environmentally sensitive areas that should be off-limits permanently.

* Developers should have to lay out clear plans, and those should go to hearings for approval.

* If the area is not currently serviced, the developer and development fees would be required to pay for extensions.

* The developer would be required to subsidize key services (i.e. transit) until full suburban-level services are cost-efficient.

* If local residents object in the hearings, then that plan cannot go ahead.

* Radical environmentalist groups should have NO say. A freeze is unrealistic and would just significantly raise housing prices and send significant development outside the City of Ottawa (which is of little benefit since that forces long commutes).
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  #165  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2011, 7:24 PM
adam-machiavelli adam-machiavelli is offline
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"Radical environmentalist groups should have NO say. A freeze is unrealistic and would just significantly raise housing prices and send significant development outside the City of Ottawa (which is of little benefit since that forces long commutes). "

If a municipality tried to impose that idea, they'd be dragged before the Supreme Court for contravening the Charter of Rights and Freedoms so fast that they wouldn't know what hit them.
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  #166  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2011, 2:30 AM
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I'd like to know how one distinguishes radical environmentalists from run-of-the-mill (or is that river?) environmentalists or from average people who just don't like to see land wasted.
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  #167  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2011, 3:01 AM
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what if one of the local residents who objects in the hearings happens to be a "radical environmentalist"?
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  #168  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2011, 3:58 AM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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what if one of the local residents who objects in the hearings happens to be a "radical environmentalist"?
That is a bit different, but rarely happens. The majority of them live downtown or in the inner part of Ottawa or Gatineau.
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  #169  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2011, 5:47 AM
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WARNING! Conditions for trolling are developing.

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  #170  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2011, 4:15 PM
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There are lots of environmentalists in the burbs. Also it would be extremely hard to get things done if you couldnt proceed because of local residents' objections. In many cases the people opposing development are those living in previous phases of the subdivision (e.g. Kanata Lakes)
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  #171  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2011, 4:05 PM
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http://communities.canada.com/ottawa...y-dispute.aspx

From: "Monfils, Joël" <joel.monfils@ottawa.ca>

Date: March 17, 2011 5:40:13 PM EDT

To: =City Council <=CityCouncil@rmoc.on.ca>, "Kirkpatrick, Kent" <Kent.Kirkpatrick@ottawa.ca>, "Simulik, Marian" <Marian.Simulik@ottawa.ca>, "O'Connor, M. Rick" <Rick.OConnor@ottawa.ca>, "Donnelly, Leslie" <Leslie.Donnelly@ottawa.ca>, "Schepers, Nancy" <Nancy.Schepers@ottawa.ca>, "Kanellakos, Steve" <Steve.Kanellakos@ottawa.ca>, "Moser, John" <John.Moser@ottawa.ca>, "Marc, Timothy C" <Timothy.Marc@ottawa.ca>

Subject: OMB Hearing - Urban Boundary

Sent on behalf of M. Rick O'Connor, City Clerk and Solicitor:

De la part de M. Rick O'Connor, Greffier et Chef du contentieux.

Some Members of Council have inquired as to the mediation that is presently occurring on the Urban Boundary matter before the Ontario Municipal Board.

The basis for the City's participation in the mediation follows.

On Monday, March 7, the Ontario Municipal Board raised the prospect of mediation. The extract of the transcript of this discussion is set out below.

The request for the parties to consider participation in mediation came from the Associate Chair of the Ontario Municipal Board. Parties before the courts and tribunals are strongly encouraged to consider all reasonable proposals for mediation. As a result therefore, the City's Legal Counsel, Bruce Engell of Weir and Foulds, and Tim Marc, with my concurrence were of the view, that out of respect for the Board's request, the City should participate in mediation to see if aprincipled settlement could be reached.

Council on January 26th, 2011 did receive a report with respect to the information within the witness statements for the Urban Boundary hearing. As Legal staff noted at Council, no offers to settle had been received by the City nor had any proposal for mediation been made so Council was not called upon to consider whether the City would participate in mediation.

The hearing was originally set down for five weeks and the expectation now is that it will not be completed in this timeframe. The Board suggested that the mediation could take place after the five weeks before time was found for the hearing to continue. However, as the hearing is not sitting on Fridays, it seemed to those at the hearing that it would make more sense to conduct the mediation on Thursday, March 17 and Friday, March 18 so that, if a proposal were developed that Legal Counsel felt was consistent with Council's objectives it could be put before Council, which would provide the opportunity to save on the remaining costs of a hearing.

UPON RESUMING MARCH 7, 2011 AT 10:30 A.M.

CHAIRPERSON JACKSON: Good morning, please be seated. So this is week three of the Urban Boundary Phase 1 hearing, day nine. We have completed one witness and hope to complete another witness soon.

The Associate Chair asked me to ask if there had been any discussion of mediation in this case, and I think somebody said earlier in the hearing they may have considered it. Does anybody recall?

Mr. Mark, has there been any mediation thought in this hearing at all.

MR. MARC: Has there been thought? Yes, but it has not gone anywhere, Mr. Chair. It is always a solicitor's responsibility to turn his or her mind to whether or not there is a prospect of resolving this by mediation and this is not a case that can be resolved by mediation, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON JACKSON: So the Associate Chair has asked that the group consider that again and he or some senior member would come down to mediate, if that was agreeable to the parties. It has to be agreed upon, of course, but it looks like there will be a break anyway because of the time when the hearing date was set. I think it was set by the Board. Mr. Zakem estimated five weeks. You concurred. The Board concurred, and now it looks as if it may not get done in five weeks, so there may be a break anyway.

Just so it doesn't go into next year, as it was suggested in questions or testimony, we would like to see as much effort that can be put into it as possible. So mediation, a possibility. Parties please discuss it, and if there is agreement it could be done in another stream so it doesn't delay the hearing. So it would be done like in other hearings where a different member would take that on and attempt to settle some, if not all, issues in a formal mediation.

So if there was agreement a call could be put forward to the Board caseworker, Mr. Stephanchuk (sic).

MR. MARC: Yes, Mr. Chairman.



M. Rick O'Connor

City Clerk and Solicitor

City of Ottawa

(613) 580-2424 (Ext. 21215)

(613) 560-1383 (fax)

rick.oconnor@ottawa.ca
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  #172  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2011, 4:47 PM
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
In many cases the people opposing development are those living in previous phases of the subdivision (e.g. Kanata Lakes)
The 'drawbridge' mentality...
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  #173  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2011, 7:13 PM
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
http://communities.canada.com/ottawa...y-dispute.aspx

.....................
Some Members of Council have inquired as to the mediation that is presently occurring on the Urban Boundary matter before the Ontario Municipal Board.

........
What's to mediate? The boundary has been decided.
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  #174  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2011, 7:39 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
What's to mediate? The boundary has been decided.
Provincial rules require a certain amount of land to be provided for housing in cities' Official Plans. The developers are arguing that the City has not provided this land supply. Their consultants (WND, MGP, Altus, and FoTenn) have said we need 2500-2800 hectares to meet demand. Leading up to the Official Plan review, City staff had said we need 850 hectares to meet demand, but Council ultimately approved 230 hectares. The Board is suggesting to try for some sort of mediation, but like Mr. Marc said there's a huge difference in the positions. Perhaps the closest to compromise might be if the developers agree to settle for the original staff position (saving the time/cost of the hearing), otherwise not sure it will go anywhere.
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  #175  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2011, 8:29 PM
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The urban boundary hearings have been divided into 2 phases: phase 1, how much expansion, if any, and phase 2, if required, where. The very nature of the appeals shows that the urban boundary has in fact not been decided and there is disagreement on how much should be expanded and where.

Mediation is used to see if there is some common ground for a settlement and thus avoiding a costly and lengthy hearing. Also the nature of this particular topic is hearing piles of evidence on...numbers, stats, and projections - a subject that is typically mind-numbing and lengthy.

You can see this is starting to be the case as it sounds like they will not finish in the allotted time.
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  #176  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2011, 2:46 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Originally Posted by Dr.Z View Post
The urban boundary hearings have been divided into 2 phases: phase 1, how much expansion, if any, and phase 2, if required, where. The very nature of the appeals shows that the urban boundary has in fact not been decided and there is disagreement on how much should be expanded and where.

Mediation is used to see if there is some common ground for a settlement and thus avoiding a costly and lengthy hearing. Also the nature of this particular topic is hearing piles of evidence on...numbers, stats, and projections - a subject that is typically mind-numbing and lengthy.

You can see this is starting to be the case as it sounds like they will not finish in the allotted time.
I say the priorities should be reversed. First, look at where it makes sense to build. Then the onus is on the developers to make plans that could be approved or rejected.
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  #177  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2011, 2:56 PM
Dr.Z Dr.Z is offline
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Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
First, look at where it makes sense to build.
If you don't determine how much first how do you know that existing vacant land is not sufficient for future demand? For clarification, the urban boundary of the urban/rural area does not represent current built housing/development but also includes large amounts of vacant land that is ready to be subdivided and serviced.

If you don't determine how much first how do you know where it makes sense to build? If it makes sense to build on in the south and the west how do you know you need both? Do you apply 100% excess to the west, or 50/50 between west and south? What if building opportunities are not equal west or south, how do you determine how much of what you need gets allocated where?

No, they have done it properly, how much first, and if expansion is required where/how that amount should be geographically divided up.
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  #178  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 2:07 AM
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Ottawa takes a beating at Ontario Municipal Board

OMB orders council to reinstate 2007 plan that would see Ottawa’s boundaries expand by 850 hectares over the next 20 years

BY KELLY PATTERSON, THE OTTAWA CITIZEN JUNE 5, 2011 9:42 PM BE THE FIRST TO POST A COMMENT


Ottawa City Council took a beating at the Ontario Municipal Board Friday, after drawing a line in the sand with developers over how much the city should be allowed to expand in coming years.

In a case that cost the city an estimated $400,000, the OMB ordered council to reinstate a 2007 plan recommended by city staff that would see Ottawa’s boundaries expand by 850 hectares over the next 20 years.

Two years ago, the city had voted instead to restrict expansion to 230 hectares over a shorter term of 15 years, relying on intensification to fill the gap — a decision that some 20 developers promptly appealed to the OMB.

While the developers lost their bid for an expansion of 2,500 hectares, the OMB ruled that the city could not tear up the plan that was made in 2007 after lengthy and comprehensive consultations, and suggested council had been trying “to avoid results of an extensive planning exercise.”

The question of just how much Ottawa should grow was a major issue in last year’s municipal election, with Mayor Jim Watson vigorously campaigning against unbridled urban sprawl, and incumbent Larry O’Brien pushing for expansion, aided by a ring road.

“We had a feeble case to start with and council’s position was weakened further by a politically motivated decision,” said Rainer Bloess, the sole councillor to oppose fighting the case before the OMB when the city voted on the matter in January.

“The appeal was a waste of money for all parties and councillors need to learn a lesson about planning and legal ramifications when they ignore solid facts to grandstand for the sake of dogmatic self-delusions,” said Bloess.

Watson was not available for comment Sunday, but spokesman Bruce Graham said the mayor “has always been clear that uncontrolled urban sprawl is not healthy or affordable for our city and that is why he continues to support sensible curbs on growth.”

Watson is reserving comment on the OMB’s ruling specifically until he has consulted with city staff Monday.

“We’re very pleased with the result,” said John Herbert, executive director of the Greater Ottawa Home Builders’ Association. “We feel vindicated … in the sense that (850 hectares) was the amount originally recommended by staff and approved by the planning committee.”

Herbert says the council’s 2009 decision to reject the 850-hectare limit was “an emotional vote that radically altered” what the city’s professional planners had recommended. He added that it was “a political decision,” taken at a time when then-mayor O’Brien and several councillors were away, and it only passed by one vote.

He added that the builders were “very pleased” that OMB also ordered the city to change a requirement that targets for intensified growth within city limits be met before any expansion is approved.

“That’s simply not possible,” he said, explaining that the requirement was based partly on the belief that so-called empty nesters will embrace life in condos rather than single-family homes.

“That’s very unrealistic. How do you put a gun to someone’s head and say, ‘Thou shalt move to a high-rise because the city says you should?’” Herbert argued. “They just won’t do it,” he said, adding that research shows seniors are among the healthiest and wealthiest ever, and tend to stay in single-family homes longer than previous generations. “We expect that trend to continue,” he said.

Tim Marc, lead counsel for the city on the OMB case, conceded that “certainly council will be disappointed. … The board gave a lot of weight to the process city went through from 2007 to 2009 and that factored more into the decision than I expected.” Marc had told councillors in January they had a 70-per-cent chance of winning.

However, he also noted that the board’s “decision did provide a fair amount of recognition for the process that council provided for leading up from May 2007 to June 2009, and that’s something we can build upon” in future planning.

Most notably, the board endorsed the city staff’s assessment of growth needs rather than the developers’ argument that the city needs to grow by 2,500 hectares, he said: “Certainly, the developers did not get the result they were seeking from the board either.”

Marc says the decision to limit growth to 230 hectares over the next 15 years was not at odds with the staff’s projections, because it factored in the use of vacant land already within the city’s boundaries. Council chose a 15-year time span for this plan because that is how long it would take for the potential intensification within city limits to be exhausted, forcing more outward growth, he explained.

Jocelyne Turner, spokeswoman for the City of Ottawa, says there are 2,327 net hectares of vacant land within the boundaries, according to a 2009 staff report.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen


Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Ottawa+...#ixzz1OSR7aRyY
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  #179  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 3:56 AM
adam-machiavelli adam-machiavelli is offline
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What all municipalities must learn from this is if you plan within a sprawl paradigm, you will get sprawl.
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  #180  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 10:56 AM
reidjr reidjr is offline
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Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
Here is my recommendation:

* There should be no set boundary, except for areas like Mer Bleue and other wetland areas and environmentally sensitive areas that should be off-limits permanently.

* Developers should have to lay out clear plans, and those should go to hearings for approval.

* If the area is not currently serviced, the developer and development fees would be required to pay for extensions.

* The developer would be required to subsidize key services (i.e. transit) until full suburban-level services are cost-efficient.

* If local residents object in the hearings, then that plan cannot go ahead.

* Radical environmentalist groups should have NO say. A freeze is unrealistic and would just significantly raise housing prices and send significant development outside the City of Ottawa (which is of little benefit since that forces long commutes).
As for local residents object then the plan can't go a head the issue with that is you may have a hand full aginst it and the majority want it so your going aginst the will of the people.If you have 60% that are aginst it then its a bit different i still don't like the idea of letting citizens having that much power.
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