London Roads

[go_leafs_go02]

Well, two roads that actually had "real" speed limits have had them reduced.

Fanshawe Park Road from pretty much Hyde Park Road east to Richmond has been lowered from 80 or 70 down to 60.

Col. Talbot has been lowered from 80 down to 70 from Southdale down to Lambeth. 70's pretty reasonable, but 80 was alot more appropriate for a rural roadway.

Honestly, I'm starting to think speed limits in Ontario are whatever is posted plus 15. Speed limit 80? You go 95. etc etc etc.

[haljackey]

London police have released their annual stats on the top 10 crash prone intersections in the city

1. Wonderland Rd. and Oxford St.
2. Highbury Ave. and Oxford St.
3. Wellington Rd. and Commissioners Rd.
4. Exeter Rd. and Wellington Rd.
5. Adelaide St. and Oxford St.
6. Commissioners Rd. and Wharncliffe Rd.
7. Hamilton Rd. and Highbury Ave.
8. Sarnia Rd. and Wonderland Rd.
9. Fanshawe Rd. and Richmond St.
10. Oxford St. and Wharncliffe Rd.

Full story here:
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2.../19293396.html


I think Wonderland and Oxford is an excellent candidate for a multi-lane roundabout as there is a lot of turning traffic. Waterloo Region has implemented many of these and they excel at improving both the efficiency and safety of these junctions.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by haljackey

I think Wonderland and Oxford is an excellent candidate for a multi-lane roundabout as there is a lot of turning traffic. Waterloo Region has implemented many of these and they excel at improving both the efficiency and safety of these junctions.

Absolutely NOT. Roundabouts are excellent in smaller locations, but Oxford and Wonderland would require a minimum of 3 lanes in the roundabout, and would be a gong-show from day 1 on.

Waterloo doesn't put roundabouts on busy urban arterials as of yet, but rather in rural or highly suburban locations where 1 or 2 lanes suits best.

They're great if everyone knows how to use them, but a roundabout there, at this point, with present drivers education, would be one of the worst decisions the City of London could do. Baby steps with these... Start with 1 lanes, then go up to 2 lanes with low traffic, and then implement them.

Solution is to have dual left turn lanes in certain locations and have them fully protected (ie the WB Fanshawe Park LT onto SB Wonderland)

Plus, expropriation of the adjacent land in the area would be HUGE. roundabouts tend to take up more space than an intersection, especially if we're talking a three laned one.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Well, two roads that actually had "real" speed limits have had them reduced.

Fanshawe Park Road from pretty much Hyde Park Road east to Richmond has been lowered from 80 or 70 down to 60.

Col. Talbot has been lowered from 80 down to 70 from Southdale down to Lambeth. 70's pretty reasonable, but 80 was alot more appropriate for a rural roadway.

Honestly, I'm starting to think speed limits in Ontario are whatever is posted plus 15. Speed limit 80? You go 95. etc etc etc.

Ontario speed limits are a joke, generally speaking if you are going 19 over or less you are not getting pulled over. I have never understood the logic in this...on the 401 for instance why not increase the speed limit to 120km/h and actually start pulling people over for speeding?
It has been documented in many US locations that by increasing the speed limit it does not increase actual car speeds at the same rate. Basically now the average speed on the 401 is lets say 120...you increase the speed to 120 and now the average speed is 126 because people are comfortable at those speeds.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by haljackey

I think Wonderland and Oxford is an excellent candidate for a multi-lane roundabout as there is a lot of turning traffic. Waterloo Region has implemented many of these and they excel at improving both the efficiency and safety of these junctions.

I actually agree with this, I think London needs to strongly consider following the waterloo regions lead on roundabouts. Another location I feel could use a multi-lane roundabout is Wonderland and Wharncliffe. No left turn lanes on Wonderland for some reason which really backs up traffic (I drive past this intersection daily as I work just up the street)

[haljackey]

Most of the 400-series Highways have a design speed of 130-150km/h. Posting it at 100 makes you feel as if you are driving too slow. I support an increase to 120, which is usually the speed being done now on rural stretches of our freeways.

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

Another location I feel could use a multi-lane roundabout is Wonderland and Wharncliffe. No left turn lanes on Wonderland for some reason which really backs up traffic (I drive past this intersection daily as I work just up the street)

Actually there's a study going on in the Southwest Area Plan to convert the "triangle of death" (Warncliffe, Wonderland and Exeter) into one large roundabout/rotary road. That would get rid of the odd turning angles and backup.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Actually there's a study going on in the Southwest Area Plan to convert the "triangle of death" (Warncliffe, Wonderland and Exeter) into one large roundabout/rotary road. That would get rid of the odd turning angles and backup.

I'd be definitely more supportive of a roundabout at Wharncliffe and Wonderland due to the more rural feeling and lower traffic volumes at that point. It could likely support a 2 lane roundabout, which I think is feasible. Expropriation would be easy to do due to plenty of land that would be available, particularly on the northwest and southeast quadrants.

The City is proposing btw to have a roundabout constructed at Hyde Park & Sunningdale. I am more than fully supportive of that, but as I've re-iterated in the past, baby steps are necessary to implement these in North America.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Actually there's a study going on in the Southwest Area Plan to convert the "triangle of death" (Warncliffe, Wonderland and Exeter) into one large roundabout/rotary road. That would get rid of the odd turning angles and backup.

That would be great, hopefully it's a two lane roundabout they are looking at which would make the most sense. I hope to see this get going sooner than later as this area is getting more and more traffic with all of the construction going on. Add in the 401/Wonderland exchange something needs to be changed at the "triangle"

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

That would be great, hopefully it's a two lane roundabout they are looking at which would make the most sense. I hope to see this get going sooner than later as this area is getting more and more traffic with all of the construction going on. Add in the 401/Wonderland exchange something needs to be changed at the "triangle"

Here's a rather interesting plan, that I actually love.

Wharncliffe from London will realign and actually meet some new roads north of Lambeth, and meet again with Longwoods west of Lambeth. Essentially a Lambeth bypass.

Main Street in Lambeth will no longer connect to Wharncliffe, but rather turn into Exeter

http://www.london.ca/Planning_and_De...plan_apr27.pdf

I can't see a one way rotary working at this location, but this proposed plan is pretty good. Yes, it will involve 2 additional turns (one right, one left) if you want to take Wharncliffe's old routing, BUT it provides a new northern bypass for Old Highway 2 traffic around Lambeth, and removes the awkward intersection of Wonderland & Wharncliffe.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

Ontario speed limits are a joke, generally speaking if you are going 19 over or less you are not getting pulled over. I have never understood the logic in this...on the 401 for instance why not increase the speed limit to 120km/h and actually start pulling people over for speeding?

I guess whoever is legislating speed limits hasn't heard of the 85% rule.

Traffic engineers say that you should design roads and set speed limits so that the fastest 15% of drivers are criminalized. Way more than 15% of all drivers are doing 100+, which leads me to believe the stupidly low speed limits are either some revenue-generating measure, or an informal limit that the government points to when it wants to convince lobby groups that it's enforcing "safe driving". Or some combination of the two. Either way, the 400-series highways are designed for speeds up to 140 km/h, the limits ought to be at least 120. Britain now has an 80 MPH (128 km/h) speed limit on their dinky little motorways, why can't we have the same thing?

Although that being said I think 100 km/h is an appropriate limit for built-up areas, and for inclement weather (although how you would define the latter is beyond me).

[go_leafs_go02]

Been a few accidents on the Glanworth Curve on Wellington Road south of London. Including one over the weekend that included 2 fatalities.

I'm wondering if that curve is too sharp and perhaps a new alignment to bypass those two curves should be done.

Lowering the speed limit will do little/nothing to help. People will always drive what they feel comfortable - unless you have extremely heavy enforcement.

Quick concept showing realignment and a more gentler curve

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?msid=2...009578,0.01929

[K85]

People are just STUPID going around that curve... That's all. It isn't as bad as people lead on, it's just those that drive it and crash over estimate their cars. I have a hemi charger, and when it first started snowing, I went to Sparta with the gf. I took that bend no more than 60. I knew one tap of the gas I was gone. I took my time, made it out fine. On the way back, a fool in a van was reversed into a ditch. "I wasn't going fast, I just dunno what happened" he said as I pulled over to help...

Guardrails only would work.

[haljackey]

This ain't no country road anymore, it's an important regional connection and a major commuter route.

Upgrades should be put in, and a new alignment would be best for both safety and efficiency of traffic flow. Guardrails are better than nothing as well.

I'm sure the more accidents/attention this stretch gets, the more likely something will be done about it.

[Kokkei Mizu]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Quick concept showing realignment and a more gentler curve

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?msid=2...009578,0.01929

I like that concept, but not just because of the gentler curves. I've always thought it was stupid how Glanworth Drive (which is a major road), has a jog to get across Wellington. Your solution would fix this problem. It would make it much easier to install traffic lights too. No more approaching a stop sign, to turn left into busy traffic, and then as soon as you get a spot, slow down to turn right and frustrate the drivers behind you.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by Kokkei Mizu

I like that concept, but not just because of the gentler curves. I've always thought it was stupid how Glanworth Drive (which is a major road), has a jog to get across Wellington. Your solution would fix this problem. It would make it much easier to install traffic lights too. No more approaching a stop sign, to turn left into busy traffic, and then as soon as you get a spot, slow down to turn right and frustrate the drivers behind you.

That realignment to make Wellington the through road likely was done decades ago (1960s was my guess) when traffic volumes were significantly lower.

Wondering what the design speed of the curve is. The easternmost curve definitely has a tighter radius compared to the other curve.

[go_leafs_go02]

BTW, who decided to add the Wonderland Road interchange on Highway 401 to google maps? It's not even built yet. Probably should get removed...

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by K85

I have a hemi charger

Wow... I'm jelly

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

That realignment to make Wellington the through road likely was done decades ago (1960s was my guess) when traffic volumes were significantly lower.

It was probably done to correct for an old dogleg in the road. Wellington looks like it originally jogged west at Glansworth when the lot lines changed, but I suppose as it became the more important road, they decided to eliminate it. There are tons of arterials in suburban Toronto with these "swoops" at intersections to correct for the old alignments, but none are nearly as sharp as this.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

BTW, who decided to add the Wonderland Road interchange on Highway 401 to google maps? It's not even built yet. Probably should get removed...

Looked and I didn't see anything.... then on the close zooms, what?

With all the effort I did trying to get Highbury and the VMP to be shown as what they actually are, I'm surprised whoever did this managed to get it approved.

Now let's get some new imagery for London. It's nearly 6 years old.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Looked and I didn't see anything.... then on the close zooms, what?

With all the effort I did trying to get Highbury and the VMP to be shown as what they actually are, I'm surprised whoever did this managed to get it approved.

Now let's get some new imagery for London. It's nearly 6 years old.

The way Google Mapmaker is run is a joke. I left the site in early December after a "Google Reviewer" quietly went and destroyed all the changes we had made, most notably converting York/Florence/Dundas back to a National Highway. There's nothing national about a series of roads that used to be signed as Highway 2 (itself once a provincial, not national highway), that is a relatively minor east-west corridor compared with Oxford Street. I, as well as others (including our own go_leafs_go02) had done so much work on fixing the London-area maps, and yet everything got wiped out with no explanation. And yet really stupid edits keep getting approved with no explanation. The place is run like Wikipedia - a bunch of people with no knowledge about a topic get to make all the decisions while knowledgeable people get marginalized.

I submitted a complaint about the London-area imagery months ago. Never got a reply.

[go_leafs_go02]

I gave up on there too. I was focused on changing the priority of alot of former provincial highways into regional highways, as most were listed as major arterials. Alot got denied, and it was frustrating for sure....

But I guess, how can that system be run better? I don't know how, without having it possible for google maps to be hacked by a large group...