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  #101  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2011, 7:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DarkArconio View Post
The point is that OR 174, the former trans canada highway, was posted at 90 before being downloaded to the city.
In its four-lane divided section, from the split at St. Laurent east to Orleans, the 174 was always posted at 100.
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  #102  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2011, 10:43 PM
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The only area in S. Ontario that I know of with 90km/h speed limits on 2-lane roads is Huron County, and only on the county roads.
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  #103  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2011, 11:26 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Originally Posted by DubberDom View Post
The same reason why the current 2-lane section of the 174 should not be widened to 4 lanes. Just as they did with the 416, a re-alignment of an eastern corridor beyond Orleans is the only option
Not sure if I agree with that, since a lot of expropriation is necessary for such, and there isn't much truck traffic as most of it uses the 417. A 4 or 5 lane undivided route (5th lane as a central turning lane) on the current alignment is best IMO, comparable to Highway 6 from Burlington to Guelph and Highway 10 from Brampton to Orangeville.
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  #104  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2011, 11:43 PM
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Highway 6 is supposed to be one of the deadliest stretches of highway in Ontario....
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...1&postcount=24
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  #105  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2011, 2:05 PM
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Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
Not sure if I agree with that, since a lot of expropriation is necessary for such, and there isn't much truck traffic as most of it uses the 417.
I live in Cumberland, I can assure you that there is a lot of truck traffic on the 174.
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  #106  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2011, 2:06 PM
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My letter to Blais from 2 months ago:

Quote:
Councillor Blais,

I understand that you had communications from various residents of the Cumberland area over the last couple of weeks in regards to your apparent support of the 174 expansion to Rockland. Although the idea of adding two extra lanes may seem like the easiest solution on the surface, I believe it is your duty as Councillor to consider the environmental, economic and social consequences of such a decision. As a fellow resident of Cumberland, I understand the need to invest in the infrastructure and provide longer term transportation solutions to the East end. I ask of you to consider all available solutions and build a legacy that we can all share for generations to come.

You must first consider the environmental consequences of any development in your Ward. Given the current alignment of the 174, which winds aligns a Canadian Heritage river on one side, and steep rock face on the other, the addition of 2 extra lanes of traffic, associated roadway spill off and noise/air pollution would forever change the waterfront of the Ottawa River. We should aim to protect the riverbank and associated watersheds, not build 4 lane highways along its side. It is clear that such a roadway should not have been built in the first place using reclaimed land and by filling in marshes and other precious ecosystems that sustain life in the river. This is our opportunity to attempt to right the wrongs, not make the situation worse by blasting cliff sides and backfilling more aggregate into the river and marches to expand a badly planned roadway.

Secondly, you should also seek to promote economic growth in Cumberland ward and also find ways to benefit the economy of Orleans as a whole. By supporting the twinning of the 174 from Trim road to Rockland along its current alignment, you are not providing any economic benefit to the City of Ottawa; instead you are simply providing easier access for residents of neighbouring communities to the east, while furthering the city’s downstream traffic issues along the 174/417 area. Why would you support such a plan if there is no economic benefit to the City? It is be in the city’s best interest to use the money earmarked for this project to invest in a transportation solution that first and foremost benefits the economic growth of Ottawa, while ensuring timely and rapid access to communities to the east of Ottawa.

I would also urge you to consider the social consequences of such a decision. By expanding the 174, you are essentially furthering the divide in the Cumberland Village area of the 2 solitudes on each side of the 174. Our community should not be divided by a 4 lane highway; rather you should be seeking solutions that enhance the quality of life of the residents of Cumberland Village and surrounding areas. By adding 2 extra lanes, the extra noise levels will make the current unbearable situation even worse, and traffic will simply grow in eastern communities like Rockland, quickly filling up the extra lanes of traffic and causing more bottlenecks, and further splitting our community into two.

It is clear that the widening of the 174 beyond Trim road is not in the best environmental, economic or social interest of Cumberland and the City Of Ottawa, but there is an alternate solution you should consider that will greatly benefit the City of Ottawa, and yet provide a better transportation to the communities to the east – a realignment of the 174 beyond Trim road using a southern route. (see attached map for general alignment)

This solution would minimize the environmental impact of the roadway, since the road would be built along undeveloped farmland. This would allow the current 174 to be converted into a parkway with cycling, running and other healthy activities that would benefit all residents of Cumberland and Orleans. Furthermore, it would allow us to expand the legacy of saving Petrie Island by extending the benefits of a protected waterfront further east all the way to Cumberland Village.

This proposed solution would also benefit the future economic development of Orleans beyond the current 2020 urban boundary. The proposed roadway would provide access to new communities and commercial opportunities along both side of the corridor. Furthermore, eastern traffic would have greater and easier access to the new Innes road commercial developments and new Montfort Hospital location, further benefitting the Orleans business community.

Lastly, this solution would also help to improve Cumberland Village and allow it to thrive into the new Millennium as a great place for all East Ottawa residents to play, eat and shop play, while enhancing our cultural and historic roots.

By your supporting the current 174 expansion, you are supporting the degradation of all of Cumberland and Orleans’s environment, economic and social condition, while providing benefit to communities outside Ottawa. I urge you to consider an alternative and join in supporting this plan. This is a legacy issue that we can all be proud of, and one day share with our children. The future of Cumberland and greater Orleans is at stake.
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  #107  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2011, 7:58 PM
DubberDom DubberDom is offline
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Another article of the 174 Issue.

http://www.emcorleans.ca/20110414/ne...city%27s+radar

This quote leave me speechless - like this is a justification to expand the road:

Quote:
While some have argued against improving a road used heavily by people who live outside of the city, Blais said taxpayers are already subsidizing those people by paying for the police, fire and paramedic services required every time there is an accident.
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  #108  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2011, 11:08 PM
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I'm with you there. Wow. Just Wow.
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  #109  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2011, 11:23 PM
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Worst thing is that the city would spend tens of millions of dollars on a road widening project (east of Trim portion I'm talking) that would be 95% benefitable for non-Ottawa taxpayers, while at the same time they are cutting $20 million on bus routes. Just in Ottawa I guess.

Don't count on an immediate uploading of this route... especially if the PC wins this fall. In fact, blame the PC if your road is not widen yet.
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  #110  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2011, 12:37 AM
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I saw a sign on Friday saying the 417 was to be closed at 6pm. I came into work on Monday morning and the entire Cyrville bridge was gone. I have no idea how they managed to do that and have all lanes open in that time frame.
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  #111  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2011, 1:29 AM
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Even more remarkable is removing, and then replacing a bridge overnight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JZ02f-SmAw

As for removing a bridge, I know they removed a bridge over the 401 overnight near Cambridge a few years ago using more conventional means. I guess it just requires a lot of planning and good implementation.
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  #112  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2011, 12:23 PM
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Here is a tweet from Blais:

Quote:
HWY 174 closed between Kinsella and Trim as a result of vehicle accident...again! We need to widen the HWY to make it safer!
Let us investigate this issue in more detail.... was it a safety issue that caused the accident that shut down the 174 on that day? No, it was because the city of Ottawa were doing maintenance on the lights at 174/Trim, and the city only assigned a single police officer to manually direct traffic along a 100km/hr route intersection.... what were they thinking, that's why the road was closed, to investigate the city's incompetence!!
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  #113  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2011, 1:42 AM
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Hum maybe just lowering the speed limit would do the trick. Quite ridiculous it still has a 90km/h speed limit stretch except 60 through Rockland and 80 at Cameron. They should reduce it to 70 km/h and paved shoulders (well at this spot it is not have paved shoulders.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=...=12,56.37,,0,0
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  #114  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2011, 3:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Cre47 View Post
Hum maybe just lowering the speed limit would do the trick. Quite ridiculous it still has a 90km/h speed limit stretch except 60 through Rockland and 80 at Cameron. They should reduce it to 70 km/h and paved shoulders (well at this spot it is not have paved shoulders.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=...=12,56.37,,0,0
No one would follow the lowered speed limits though. Paved shoulders with rumble strips I agree with though.
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  #115  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2011, 5:48 PM
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On Quebec's 2-lane autoroutes, they have a gap between the 2 directions of traffic and rumble strips within that gap. They should add that to that section of the 174.
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  #116  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 8:19 AM
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Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli View Post
On Quebec's 2-lane autoroutes, they have a gap between the 2 directions of traffic and rumble strips within that gap. They should add that to that section of the 174.
Definitely agree, but still 90 with residential entrances is ridiculous.
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  #117  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 8:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubberDom View Post
Here is a tweet from Blais:



Let us investigate this issue in more detail.... was it a safety issue that caused the accident that shut down the 174 on that day? No, it was because the city of Ottawa were doing maintenance on the lights at 174/Trim, and the city only assigned a single police officer to manually direct traffic along a 100km/hr route intersection.... what were they thinking, that's why the road was closed, to investigate the city's incompetence!!
And it's not on a two-lane stretch where that happen, it was at the intersection of Trim itself behind it narrows 200 meters further east.
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  #118  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2011, 12:23 PM
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I know the majority of the article is not related to the Trim Road to Laporte/Edwards Street (Rockland) portion but the first sentence is relatively clear, do not count on an upload Rockland buddies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neco Cockburn

No chance province will pay for Hwy 174 repairs, McNeely says

By Neco Cockburn, The Ottawa Citizen September 2, 2011

Repairing and maintaining Highway 174 is an expensive challenge. The highway’s inside lanes run over a concrete base, which has moved at several joints, causing the surface to become uneven.

OTTAWA — Chances are “zero to nil” that the province would look at taking responsibility for Highway 174 out of the city’s hands, says an east-side MPP.

City staff say the road likely needs an expensive and challenging renewal in order to properly fix bumps caused by the way it was built, and a pair of councillors recently reiterated beliefs that the highway should fall under the province’s authority. Responsibility for Highway 174 was downloaded from the province to the city in 1997.

However, Ottawa-Orléans Liberal MPP Phil McNeely said the provincial government has already negotiated an agreement with municipalities for taking back some of the costs and responsibilities handed to cities in the 1990s.

Under the agreement, which was signed in 2008, $1.5 billion in annual costs related to provincial social services, court security, and road and bridge maintenance are to be uploaded to the province by 2018. Taking back responsibility for the highway was not part of the arrangement, McNeely said.

“Not one mile of road has been uploaded by the province since (former Ontario premier Mike) Harris downloaded all the roads, and it wasn’t part of the long-term agreement, so the chances of the province looking at this again are zero to nil, I think,” he said.

In 2004, McNeely said he was in favour of bringing Highway 174 back into the provincial fold and that “it never should have been downloaded” to municipalities.

The long-term uploading agreement has been signed since then, McNeely said on Thursday, adding that whenever he mentioned the issue in 2003 and 2004, he heard that “none of the road projects were ever uploaded, and I think that’s the position of the province yet.”

City staff have said the way the road is constructed has made it challenging to maintain and renew a piece of highway between the split with Highway 417 and Montreal Road. The highway’s inside lanes run over a concrete base, which has moved at several joints, causing the surface to become uneven.

Staff are looking into short- and long-term solutions to the problem, but warn they will likely be costly.

Innes Councillor Rainer Bloess and Cumberland Councillor Stephen Blais said recently that the province should be responsible for the road. Council in 2004 approved a proposal to have the city “upload full responsibilities and obligations of Highway 174 to the province of Ontario,” but nothing came of it.

McNeely acknowledged on Thursday that the road is “not in great shape.

“This is a complex road to repair because it was built as concrete and those joints are all moving, and we need a good road there so the sooner it gets done, the better,” he said.

McNeely said he’d be prepared to see whether the province would offer funding for repairs that staff determine are necessary, but noted that the provincial government has already made major funding announcements involving city roads.

Premier Dalton McGuinty announced in June that $200 million would be spent to fix traffic problems stemming from the split between highways 174 and 417. The province also said last year that $22 million would be put toward a new interchange to link Hunt Club Road to Highway 417.

In light of the funding for the split and Hunt Club projects, “I just don’t know how the ministry would look on a request for funding of the reconstruction of 174,” McNeely said.

“I certainly would take it forward,” he said. “I’m always working to see if I can help my riding, but I doubt very much that there would be dollars for that project right now.”
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen
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  #119  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2011, 12:26 PM
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I know the majority of the article is not related to the Trim Road to Laporte/Edwards Street (Rockland) portion but the first sentence is relatively clear, do not count on an upload Rockland buddies.

Source: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ch...195/story.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neco Cockburn

No chance province will pay for Hwy 174 repairs, McNeely says

By Neco Cockburn, The Ottawa Citizen September 2, 2011

Repairing and maintaining Highway 174 is an expensive challenge. The highway’s inside lanes run over a concrete base, which has moved at several joints, causing the surface to become uneven.

OTTAWA — Chances are “zero to nil” that the province would look at taking responsibility for Highway 174 out of the city’s hands, says an east-side MPP.

City staff say the road likely needs an expensive and challenging renewal in order to properly fix bumps caused by the way it was built, and a pair of councillors recently reiterated beliefs that the highway should fall under the province’s authority. Responsibility for Highway 174 was downloaded from the province to the city in 1997.

However, Ottawa-Orléans Liberal MPP Phil McNeely said the provincial government has already negotiated an agreement with municipalities for taking back some of the costs and responsibilities handed to cities in the 1990s.

Under the agreement, which was signed in 2008, $1.5 billion in annual costs related to provincial social services, court security, and road and bridge maintenance are to be uploaded to the province by 2018. Taking back responsibility for the highway was not part of the arrangement, McNeely said.

“Not one mile of road has been uploaded by the province since (former Ontario premier Mike) Harris downloaded all the roads, and it wasn’t part of the long-term agreement, so the chances of the province looking at this again are zero to nil, I think,” he said.

In 2004, McNeely said he was in favour of bringing Highway 174 back into the provincial fold and that “it never should have been downloaded” to municipalities.

The long-term uploading agreement has been signed since then, McNeely said on Thursday, adding that whenever he mentioned the issue in 2003 and 2004, he heard that “none of the road projects were ever uploaded, and I think that’s the position of the province yet.”

City staff have said the way the road is constructed has made it challenging to maintain and renew a piece of highway between the split with Highway 417 and Montreal Road. The highway’s inside lanes run over a concrete base, which has moved at several joints, causing the surface to become uneven.

Staff are looking into short- and long-term solutions to the problem, but warn they will likely be costly.

Innes Councillor Rainer Bloess and Cumberland Councillor Stephen Blais said recently that the province should be responsible for the road. Council in 2004 approved a proposal to have the city “upload full responsibilities and obligations of Highway 174 to the province of Ontario,” but nothing came of it.

McNeely acknowledged on Thursday that the road is “not in great shape.

“This is a complex road to repair because it was built as concrete and those joints are all moving, and we need a good road there so the sooner it gets done, the better,” he said.

McNeely said he’d be prepared to see whether the province would offer funding for repairs that staff determine are necessary, but noted that the provincial government has already made major funding announcements involving city roads.

Premier Dalton McGuinty announced in June that $200 million would be spent to fix traffic problems stemming from the split between highways 174 and 417. The province also said last year that $22 million would be put toward a new interchange to link Hunt Club Road to Highway 417.

In light of the funding for the split and Hunt Club projects, “I just don’t know how the ministry would look on a request for funding of the reconstruction of 174,” McNeely said.

“I certainly would take it forward,” he said. “I’m always working to see if I can help my riding, but I doubt very much that there would be dollars for that project right now.”
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen
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  #120  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2011, 3:11 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cre47 View Post
I know the majority of the article is not related to the Trim Road to Laporte/Edwards Street (Rockland) portion but the first sentence is relatively clear, do not count on an upload Rockland buddies.

Source: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ch...195/story.html
If they take it out of city hands, they need to relieve the section in Prescott-Russell as well, it would only be fair. It definitely should be a provincial highway; even though it was bypassed by Highway 417 it is still an important route for several mid-sized communities and Quebec ferries and bridges.
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