Expensive ICBC Rates

[Trainguy]

ICBC rates are going up 6% November 1st. It is time to break this monopoly and allow full private insurance to dictate the market like in other provinces.

We pay the highest rates in Canada and it is going to keep going up because they are in deficit spending.

Maybe the plan to control congestion is to make it too expensive for some people to be on the road.

http://www.news1130.com/2017/10/27/b...insurance-ctf/

[Feathered Friend]

Editorial: Stop siphoning ICBC’s profits
TIMES COLONIST
AUGUST 29, 2014 04:06 PM
http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion...fits-1.1333337

Before ICBC was created in 1973, British Columbia was an insurance jungle.

Justice R.A.B. Wootton, appointed by Social Credit premier W.A.C. Bennett to study the practices of the 175 insurance companies operating in B.C., found that competition was limited. He noted in his 1968 report that there was no compulsory insurance to cover cyclists, pedestrians or passengers in motor vehicles. The lack of compulsory insurance meant innocent victims could be devastated financially. Rates were seen as discriminatory, as they were based on age, sex, marital status, area of residence and other social criteria....

“A private insurer needs to provide a reasonable return to investors, which is typically generated from its investment portfolio, whereas a public insurer can use this income to pay claims and lower rates for its policyholders or to add to surplus capital to prevent future rate shock,” said the B.C. branch of the Consumers’ Association of Canada in a 2013 paper entitled A Consumers’ Perspective to Fixing ICBC .

Though really, I'm not sure if this thread is needed/appropriate for a development/architecture focused form. At best it could have been in General Discussion.

[SpongeG]

I was paying $82/mo in alberta, i switched back to BC it is now $147/mo. Its so expensive.

[Colin4567]

A "fixed cost" like insurance will not deter people. This is a basic economic principle. If you drive, at all, you pay insurance (yes some of this depends on distance driven and amount of times driven but the basic principle applies). Those who truly need (or think they "need" to drive when transit is readily available) to drive will simply pay this cost and keep on driving. Gas taxes are a variable cost (meaning you pay more in tax if you drive more, because you consume more) although they just push people to more fuel-efficient vehicles and are thus subdued. The only real way to make people stop driving is a variable cost that can't be avoided, such as a road tax or a bridge toll.

[moosejaw]

the bc insurance not being a free market isnt a problem
I think its all the lawsuits
Here in florida we have limits on payout which is called "no fault"
Its not perfect here as we have plenty of frivolous lawsuits but we have a cap on payout. Our insurance rate increases result from fraud...fake injuries, intentional accidents, cars disappearing into the canal, cars getting shipped to south america etc..... People that dont want their car anymore just make it disappear.

Anyways i think ICBC should introduce limits on payouts
When i was 16 years old I imported a RX7 Turbo II from the USA. It was 10 years old
My insurance in Washington was over $235/mo for full coverage. When i got BC tags i was paying $CAD90/month with $300k coverage. Ironically ICBC's criteria for insuring cars back in the 90s was based on the gross vehicle rate not the type of car ie.... red sports car
If private insurance companies are introduced to the BC market, they will set rates close maybe slightly lower than what they are now. American insurance companies set rates according to what type of car you drive, how many children are in your home, whther theirs a bank note on your car, gender, age, newly registered driver license etc.....something BC'ers may not be used to?

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Andrew Weaver says NDP government should consider no-fault ICBC insurance to save costs

"Payouts for minor bodily injuries have increased 365 percent since 2000," Weaver said. "Every other public insurance system in Canada either limits certain types of claims or operates as a no-fault model."...

Under no-fault insurance systems, an independent body often determines awards based on the types of injuries that people sustain. This is how WorkSafe B.C. operates—employers pay premiums and workers are not allowed to file lawsuits against them for workplace injuries....

a recent Ernst & Young report for the former B.C. Liberal government noted that ICBC could save 13.5 percent by 2019 if it adopted a no-fault system.

According to Ernst & Young, this would generate $630 per year in savings per motorist.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by Colin4567

A "fixed cost" like insurance will not deter people. This is a basic economic principle. If you drive, at all, you pay insurance (yes some of this depends on distance driven and amount of times driven but the basic principle applies). Those who truly need (or think they "need" to drive when transit is readily available) to drive will simply pay this cost and keep on driving. Gas taxes are a variable cost (meaning you pay more in tax if you drive more, because you consume more) although they just push people to more fuel-efficient vehicles and are thus subdued. The only real way to make people stop driving is a variable cost that can't be avoided, such as a road tax or a bridge toll.

Are you suggesting people will borrow money just to pay their car insurance, even if they can't afford it, so they don't have to use transit? At some point people will say it is just not worth the cost to drive.

[bluefox]

I’m all for making it prohibitively expensive for bad drivers to remain on the road, but I don’t see why a public insurer can’t deliver that kind of system.

Maybe if the previous government hadn’t used it as a cash cow and people were overall better drivers, ICBC wouldn’t be in such bad shape.

[vid]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I was paying $82/mo in alberta, i switched back to BC it is now $147/mo. Its so expensive.

I pay $161/month in Ontario. This is considered cheap—I have multiple discounts due to my age and the fact that I attended a driving school. I know people who are paying as much as $350/month and even then you can find people paying more. The lowest I've ever heard of was $75/month, which is what a 66 year old coworker who had never been in a car accident was paying.

So to hear you guys saying $147/month is expensive is laughable to me, as an Ontarian. And our provincial government doesn't get to raid their coffers to build highways whenever it wants, either.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Are you suggesting people will borrow money just to pay their car insurance, even if they can't afford it, so they don't have to use transit? At some point people will say it is just not worth the cost to drive.

i've seen people their year on their credit cards when getting their insurance

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I was paying $82/mo in alberta, i switched back to BC it is now $147/mo. Its so expensive.

I moved to Vancouver in Sept 2016. In AB I was paying just under $800/year for a 2008 Dodge Dakota. Last year I paid $2100/year in BC for the same coverage. And yes ICBC got my last 20 years of driving history.

At least the cheap gas makes up for it. Wait ....

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by vid

I pay $161/month in Ontario
...
The lowest I've ever heard of was $75/month, which is what a 66 year old coworker who had never been in a car accident was paying....

My brother has a 2013 Tundra insured in T Bay at just under $1000 year. It's his primary vehicle. We were just talking about how he pays less than half what I do in BC for a newer vehicle with better coverage.

And no, he's not 66.

[vid]

Good for him.

[Colin4567]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Are you suggesting people will borrow money just to pay their car insurance, even if they can't afford it, so they don't have to use transit? At some point people will say it is just not worth the cost to drive.

No? I didn't say they'd borrow money, but as an example I go to SFU and it's crazy how many people live right at Burquitlam station (a bus goes directly from Burquitlam to SFU in 10 minutes) yet drive up every day. They just "don't want to transit", so obviously the insurance and parking costs aren't stopping them. Something that charged them to go up the mountain might.

[casper]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i've seen people their year on their credit cards when getting their insurance

I always pay for insurance with a credit card. There is a lot you can do with avion points. My credit card is set up to auto-pays in full at the end of each month.

Using a credit card does not mean your looking to finance the insurance payments. It may just mean your addicted to points, or that 1-2% rebate by using a premium card.

[logicbomb]

Cannot believe that people think the solution is to fully "liberalize the market" and allow private entities to dictate the insurance market.

Take a look at other markets and see how bad private insurance companies to be. That, and you eventually see gradual consolidation within the market and an eventual monopoly/oligopoly form. I guarantee you we'd see a reprieve for a few years until rates begin soaring due to "supply and demand." We live in the wealthiest part of Canada and get gouged EVERYWHERE as a result...I don't doubt this would eventually apply to insurance as well.

A hybrid alternative is better. We need to get luxury cars out of ICBC and allow private entities to insure these.

Before that, we need to get god awful drivers off the road. You have stupid drivers that shouldn't be on the road or be forced to adhere to very strict standards to obtain any drivers license in this province. This is a touchy subject but we have too many immigrants coming into this province who are unfamiliar with the roads and climatic conditions.

Those who are held 100% liable for more than X accidents within a set period should either see their license removed or be forced to graduate the entire licensing program again.

Lastly, I agree with Weaver. There are way too many frivolous lawsuits in this god damn provinces. Some even occurring after the tiniest fender bender.

Take the story of what happened in a Newton parking lot in September 2016. One of my friends was driving into a parking lot and nudged the side of a car that was exiting (occurred at 10km/hr). ICBC deemed him to be 100% responsible and he actually provided his dashcam footage to show it wasn't as bad as the third-party claimed to be...He finds out this summer that the the women has been off work for a year and her two kids are claiming "concussion" related issues and performance issues in school.

We are paying the highest premiums because we a) have the worst drivers in the country b) have the highest amount of luxury vehicles on the road and c) have a high number of crooks intentionally getting into accidents or tying to milk ICBC/TP after minor accidents.

[Colin4567]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Cannot believe that people think the solution is to fully "liberalize the market" and allow private entities to dictate the insurance market.

Take a look at other markets and see how bad private insurance companies to be. That, and you eventually see gradual consolidation within the market and an eventual monopoly/oligopoly form. I guarantee you we'd see a reprieve for a few years until rates begin soaring due to "supply and demand." We live in the wealthiest part of Canada and get gouged EVERYWHERE as a result...I don't doubt this would eventually apply to insurance as well.

A hybrid alternative is better. We need to get luxury cars out of ICBC and allow private entities to insure these.

Before that, we need to get god awful drivers off the road. You have stupid drivers that shouldn't be on the road or be forced to adhere to very strict standards to obtain any drivers license in this province. This is a touchy subject but we have too many immigrants coming into this province who are unfamiliar with the roads and climatic conditions.

Those who are held 100% liable for more than X accidents within a set period should either see their license removed or be forced to graduate the entire licensing program again.

Lastly, I agree with Weaver. There are way too many frivolous lawsuits in this god damn provinces. Some even occurring after the tiniest fender bender.

Take the story of what happened in a Newton parking lot in September 2016. One of my friends was driving into a parking lot and nudged the side of a car that was exiting (occurred at 10km/hr). ICBC deemed him to be 100% responsible and he actually provided his dashcam footage to show it wasn't as bad as the third-party claimed to be...He finds out this summer that the the women has been off work for a year and her two kids are claiming "concussion" related issues and performance issues in school.

We are paying the highest premiums because we a) have the worst drivers in the country b) have the highest amount of luxury vehicles on the road and c) have a high number of crooks intentionally getting into accidents or tying to milk ICBC/TP after minor accidents.

Yeah but also there's this article here:https://globalnews.ca/news/3809158/auto-insurance/
"Sutherland said drivers in other provinces pay less for insurance, and even if they have an accident, are subject to higher payouts."
Obviously there's SOMETHING wrong here, just not quite sure what.

[s211]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I was paying $82/mo in alberta, i switched back to BC it is now $147/mo. Its so expensive.

I was about to chip in that my BC car insurance cost be about twice as much as my AB car insurance was, and that was with a clean driving record.

Something is seriously screwed up in the People's Republic of BC.

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

A hybrid alternative is better. We need to get luxury cars out of ICBC and allow private entities to insure these.

What do you condsider luxury cars? Most people that own really expensive luxury cars insure them with a collector car agency like i do as I select the payout amount in the event of total loss. Are you talking about cars that are made in Germany, England, or Italy? A dollar amount you had in mind? $30k, $40K. What are luxury cars subject to this exclusion? Anyone here own a luxury car? I happen to own a high end SUV and a collector vehicle who i insure through Grundy Worldwide. Contrary to popular belief there are infinite amount of used parts for BMWs, Mercedes, Porsche and the like. ICBC should be using used OEM parts in these claims. A body shop charges the same amount to fix a luxury car as it does a civic or corolla (exlcuding matte finishes, pearls, and really exclusive paint: ie you can now order Lamborghini and Porsche colors on your BMW) So i dont get how exclusing luxury cars can lower ICBCs bottom line. Perhaps in the event of total loss I can see but is that happening a lot?

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Before that, we need to get god awful drivers off the road. You have stupid drivers that shouldn't be on the road or be forced to adhere to very strict standards to obtain any drivers license in this province. This is a touchy subject but we have too many immigrants coming into this province who are unfamiliar with the roads and climatic conditions.

My experience here in florida is when you restrict driving privileges to accident prone clients they drive anyways...uninsured. Its estimated here in Miami that there are over 25% uninsured drivers on the road. People are not going to care if they cant buy insurance.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by s211

I was about to chip in that my BC car insurance cost be about twice as much as my AB car insurance was, and that was with a clean driving record.

Something is seriously screwed up in the People's Republic of BC.

10 years ago I was paying less optional insurance on my vehicle than I do now and it is 10 years older. Something is messed up. The NDP need to do a complete overhaul of ICBC or open the market up to full private insurance.