Fort Wayne!

[pdxtex]

what do you trend setters or old farts know about fort wayne? its seems like it could be the "other" grand rapids. another off the radar, mid sized city with some positive metrics. positive population growth, lowish crime, but cheap real estate! and its only two hours away from just about every upper midwest city. burgeoning cycling culture and established arts scene??? wow, sounds cool. anyone actually live there?

[The North One]

Indiana? Umm, I don't think it's anywhere near Grand Rapids in any measure, that's a weird comparison.

[pdxtex]

ok, so maybe its the "other, other" grand rapids. which is fine too. but you know, legacy manufacturing, mid sized great lakes city with positive population growth, on a river, over 500k, similar demographics, second biggest city in it state, old school religious founders....its not in a different galaxy....

[Crawford]

Fort Wayne probably vies with Toledo and Akron for rustiest Rust Belt metro. Not really similar to white collar, Dutch-influenced, hipsterish GR.

[eschaton]

Fort Wayne isn't as big as it looks. It just has broad city limits because it has spread out in its core county almost entirely unimpeded.

AFAIK there's only one nice middle-class neighborhood in the inner core. It's located immediately to the west of Downtown and called West Central. It has a lot of well-preserved houses (much of it is a historic district) along tree-lined streets. It doesn't have much of anything resembling a business district however.

[Sun Belt]

@pdxtex: are you thinking about moving to a small midwestern city?

[skyscraperpage17]

Why would any liberal-minded person with an iota of ambition want to live in some place like Fort Wayne or Grand Rapids?

[dc_denizen]

Why not? I get tired of the expense, inequality, and hassle of New York all the time.

Although I’d prefer Detroit I were to live to the Midwest these days.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Why not? I get tired of the expense, inequality, and hassle of New York all the time.

Although I’d prefer Detroit I were to live to the Midwest these days.

I get that some place like NYC isn't paradise, but it's quite the leap from NYC to Grand Rapids or Fort Wayne. Unless you're retired and not concerned about culture or upward mobility, those places quite frankly suck. And the worst part is they don't even have redeemable-enough weather to make for what they lack from a socio-economic standpoint.

If I had to move back to Michigan (which I wouldn't do if it were the last place on earth), it would only be Detroit. And Indianapolis is the only place in Indiana I would consider.

[iheartthed]

I'm not much of an expert on either place, but I never thought of Fort Wayne and Grand Rapids as being similar. Actually, I've never thought much about Fort Wayne at all.
I don't think Grand Rapids is a Rust Belt city, but I assumed Fort Wayne to be.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

Why would any liberal-minded person with an iota of ambition want to live in some place like Fort Wayne or Grand Rapids?

I don’t know, but plenty of people obviously disagree with you since Grand Rapids is actually doing quite well.

Not too sure about Fort Wayne though

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

If I had to move back to Michigan (which I wouldn't do if it were the last place on earth), it would only be Detroit. And Indianapolis is the only place in Indiana I would consider.

Obviously as an expatriate who sadly trash talks his home State, you are forever going to be biased.

I’m also a Michigan expatriate and I wouldn’t go so far to malign Michigan as you did. I don’t have an issue with the weather, I enjoy fall, I think our summers are the best thing in the world, but yes I do get fed up with winter by the time February rolls around.

But I will say that Michigan is also not for me simply because I need to be near a major global and highly urban city. In fact, I can only see myself living near 2 or 3 other cities in America (NYC, perhaps Bay Area, DC). That’s just me.

But to single out Michigan as such a terrible place seems odd to me. I would argue that it’s probably the most unique and beautiful State in the Midwest. It’s got a lot of history, it’s a peninsula surrounded by water, it’s got Mackinac Island, tons of cute coastal towns, and an important international border between two cities. From the standpoint of States, I think it’s the nicest midwestern one. But that’s just me I guess...

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

I don’t know, but plenty of people obviously disagree with you since Grand Rapids is actually doing quite well.

Let's see:

*No world-class museums

*Very limited direct domestic and international flights.

*No professional sports teams

*Limited rapid transit infrastructure

*Extremely socially conservative (basically in Michigan's bible belt).

*The only options for corporate jobs is Meijer or Amway (both of which rank from not anything special to downright toxic).

*With exception to a ballet company, no cultural attractions like Opera, Symphony Orchestra, etc.

*Very slow to no growth.

I'm not sure what "relatively well" means to you and others, but a city that fits the aforementioned description certainly doesn't fit my idea of "relatively well," nor the idea of the hoards of Michigan college graduates who continue to flee for Chicago, Minneapolis, to the bg cities in the Sunbelt cities and the big cities on the coasts.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

Let's see:

*No world-class museums

*Very limited direct domestic and international flights.

*No professional sports teams

*Limited rapid transit infrastructure

*Extremely socially conservative (basically in Michigan's bible belt).

*The only options for corporate jobs is Meijer or Amway (both of which rank from not anything special to downright toxic).

*With exception to a ballet company, no cultural attractions like Opera, Symphony Orchestra, etc.

*Very slow to no growth.

I'm not sure what "relatively well" means to you and others, but a city that fits the aforementioned description certainly doesn't fit my idea of "relatively well," nor the idea of the hoards of Michigan college graduates who continue to flee for Chicago, Minneapolis, to the bg cities in the Sunbelt cities and the big cities on the coasts.

Right, but since 2010 it has been doing well with population growth. So while it’s not good enough for you, that’s not really the point. People are choosing to live there.

I mean, you can make this same value judgement about any small or medium sized city in America, but it will get you nowhere. Millions of people do perfectly fine not having world class museums and international airports nearby, so..... what’s your point?

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

I’m also a Michigan expatriate and I wouldn’t go so far to malign Michigan as you did. I don’t have an issue with the weather, I enjoy fall, I think our summers are the best thing in the world, but yes I do get fed up with winter by the time February rolls around.

But I will say that Michigan is also not for me simply because I need to be near a major global and highly urban city. In fact, I can only see myself living near 2 or 3 other cities in America (NYC, perhaps Bay Area, DC). That’s just me.

But to single out Michigan as such a terrible place seems odd to me. I would argue that it’s probably the most unique and beautiful State in the Midwest. It’s got a lot of history, it’s a peninsula surrounded by water, it’s got Mackinac Island, tons of cute coastal towns, and an important international border between two cities. From the standpoint of States, I think it’s the nicest midwestern one. But that’s just me I guess...

We're all entitled to our opinions.

Michigan's not the worst state in the Midwest, but relative to its peers in size (Illinois, Minnesota, Ohio), I think my criticism is valid.

It's the most poorly managed of the bunch, has the least diverse economy, has the worst infrastructure and lacks a vibrant big city. Forget about the several months of nothing but overcast skies because of lake effect clouds.

These negatives strongly outweigh the positives with respect to its natural scenery and history (which can be found in a ton of other states that are much healthier).

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Right, but since 2010 it has been doing well with population growth. So while it’s not good enough for you, that’s not really the point. People are choosing to live there.

I mean, you can make this same value judgement about any small or medium sized city in America, but it will get you nowhere. Millions of people do perfectly fine not having world class museums and international airports nearby, so..... what’s your point?

My point was pretty clear, which I will repeat...

I don't know why any liberal-minded person with an iota of ambition would be interested in places like Fort Wayne or Grand Rapids.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

We're all entitled to our opinions.

Michigan's not the worst state in the Midwest, but relative to its peers in size (Illinois, Minnesota, Ohio), I think my criticism is valid.

It's the most poorly managed of the bunch, has the least diverse economy, has the worst infrastructure and lacks a vibrant big city. Forget about the several months of nothing but overcast skies because of lake effect clouds.

These negatives strongly outweigh the positives with respect to its natural scenery and history (which can be found in a ton of other states that are much healthier).

In the Midwest, Illinois takes the cake as mostly “poorly managed”, let’s clear the air on that. Hell, right now it might be the most poorly managed State in the whole country. Also, I wouldn’t say that Michigan has the worst infrastructure in the Midwest. I’m not sure that any midwestern State stands above the crowd in infrastructure besides Illinois.

And the weather issues—well yeah I get it, you don’t like it, but I’m just talking about things these places can actually control.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

In the Midwest, Illinois takes the cake as mostly “poorly managed”, let’s clear the air on that. Hell, right now it might be the most poorly managed State in the whole country. Also, I wouldn’t say that Michigan has the worst infrastructure in the Midwest. I’m not sure that any midwestern State stands above the crowd in infrastructure besides Illinois.

Illinois isn't perfect, but it doesn't have the worst roads in the midwest (if not country), nor population centers with unsafe drinking water, nor students who feel they have to file a lawsuit to receive a quality education, nor institutional union busting, nor was it the only top 10 state to be completely dismissed by Amazon for its HQ2.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Obviously as an expatriate who sadly trash talks his home State, you are forever going to be biased.

The number two reason I couldn't live in Metro Detroit ever again is because the people are just so goddamn cynical about everything. The number two reason is weather.

[the urban politician]

^ Yeah, luckily you now get to enjoy all of those sunny 82 degree January days in New York, right?