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  #21  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2009, 5:04 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Originally Posted by blockski View Post
Well, it's not like they're hugely different, but they are different. For gondolas, the cable itself is moving, and the cabs grip the cable to move. For Trams, the cars move along fixed cables as if they were rails, pulled by a third cable.

That's why trams are usually much bigger (as you have different cables for movement and support). Trams can also scale more impressive terrain and maintain much longer distances between towers, which is why they're chosen for some applications over gondolas. The Portland tram, for example, has only one tower to cover a horizontal distance of 3,000+ feet. This also allows for scaling some impressive heights as well.
Tri-cable gondolas are a mix of the two technologies. They offer two stationary support wires and a moving wire gripped by the gondola car.
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  #22  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2009, 6:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Jasonhouse View Post
How fast do these things go? How many people per hour can they carry? I'm having trouble finding the 'specs' for such systems.
Well, it all depends on the specific technology and the application.

The usual rule of thumb max capacity for a quad chairlift is 2,400 uphill skiers per hour. So, that's 2,400 people per hour in one direction. Gondolas (on the account of having a larger capacity cabin - 6 to 8 passengers, but often with slightly larger gaps between cars) can pus 3,000 skiers per hour.

A big Aerial Tramway, such as the new one at Jackson Hole, has a much lower capacity but can scale much more challenging terrain and offers a much longer ride - base to summit, 2+ miles in distance and 4,300 feet of vertical - in just 9 minutes. Still, with 9 minute headways on a double-jigback tram like that with two 100 passenger cars, your uphill capacity is just 650 skiers per hour.

As far as urban applications for aerial trams and gondolas, I'd think you'd need a challenge that matches the technology. What these kind of systems have in terms of efficiency is lost with simplicity - there's a reason ski lifts go from bottom to top with no stops in between - because stops are complicated, as are turns.

That's not to say it can't be done, as there are lots of cable propelled people movers and whatnot - but almost all are limited to relatively simple operations, which in turn can maximize the advantages of the technology's simplicity (full automation, reliability, etc).
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  #23  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2009, 10:14 PM
emathias emathias is offline
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Barcelona has a couple of these. There's the Telefèric de Montjuïc and another one across the harbor from Miramar to Jaume I to St. Sebasia.

And don't forget New York's Roosevelt Island tram.

And then there's the Wankbahn in Bavaria, which inspired this comic.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2010, 6:02 PM
Steven Dale Steven Dale is offline
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From the Cable Guy

Hey all,

I'm the guy who the Toronto Star interviewed for this piece. One of the reasons I started www.gondolaproject.com was to actually help people learn about the technology. A quick glance around the internet will show you that there's virtually no publicly accessible research available on the topic of urban gondolas and cable propelled transit (CPT).

I started working with the technology three years ago, and I've been touring systems around the world and developing a body of research on the matter. I'll continue touring installations for the next year as well.

It would be impossible to address everyone's concerns in one post, but just let me say this: Cable is remarkably flexible, safe, fast and cheap. I was stunned myself to learn these things, but they're a fact. If anyone has any specific questions about the tech, you can ask me here or you could head on over to www.gondolaproject.com and submit questions in the comments section.

One thing I'm trying to do with the site is not just have me pontificating about the virtues of the technology. Instead, I'd really love to see people get involved and excited about the technology. Skeptics are incredibly welcome.

I'm really excited to see this topic generate the interest that it did.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2010, 2:26 AM
amor de cosmos amor de cosmos is offline
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the latest blog update:

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It took me a while, but I’ve finally compiled all the comments left online to the Toronto Star article that appeared last month. Here, in a completely unscientific study, I present the results.

Most of the comments left could be categorized in one of four ways:
  • This is the worst idea I have ever heard of in my life.
  • This is a good idea that is worthy of further investigation.
  • Whether it is a good idea or a bad one, the real problem is with our current transit planning regime.
  • Steven Dale is a complete idiot who should learn to shut his mouth.
Here are the percentages of comments that fell within those categories:
  • (36.73%) This is the worst idea I have ever heard of in my life.
  • (33.67%) This is a good idea that is worthy of further investigation.
  • (22.45%) Whether it is a good idea or a bad one is irrelevant. The real problem is our current transit planning regime.
  • (7.14%) Steven Dale is a complete idiot who should learn to shut his mouth.

In order to dig a little deeper, however, I also compiled the percentage of people within the “thumbs-up-thumbs-down” crowd who agreed with the consensus in each category. Those results are rather striking:
  • 71.62% of people within the thumbs-up-thumbs-down crowd agreed that cable transit is a good idea that is worthy of further investigation.
  • 68.60% of people within the thumbs-up-thumbs-down crowd agreed that whether cable transit is a good idea or a bad one is irrelevant. The real problem is our current transit planning regime.
  • 51.92% of people within the thumbs-up-thumbs-down crowd agreed that cable transit is the worst idea they had ever heard of in their life.
  • 41.48% of people within the thumbs-up-thumbs-down crowd agreed that Steven is a complete idiot who should learn to shut his mouth.
I’ve gotta’ say, considering the knee-jerk, reactionary nature of online comments . . . those aren’t bad numbers no matter how completely unscientific they are.
http://gondolaproject.com/2010/01/20/survey-says/
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  #26  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2010, 4:07 PM
amor de cosmos amor de cosmos is offline
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First look at Wilkinson Eyre's cable car over the Thames

[FIRST LOOK] Wilkinson Eyre has revealed these images of its designs for the UK’s first urban cable car, linking the Greenwich Peninsula with the historic Royal Docks in East London

The practice has now submitted plans for the scheme to the London Borough of Newham which when complete would carry 2,500 passengers per hour across the Thames.

Three tower constructions are being proposed in the applications, two of which will be at Clyde Wharf and the south of the Queen Elizabeth II pier near the O2 Arena.

Two-storey cable car stations will be built on both sides of the river, and will include drive rooms, ticket offices and concourses. Passengers will access the cable cars from the first floor, while the ground floor space will be used for retail purposes.




http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/n...602638.article
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  #27  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2012, 8:05 PM
amor de cosmos amor de cosmos is offline
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Looking to the skies for answers: a second look at gondola transit
Published On Tue Jan 03 2012
Tess Kalinowski Transportation Reporter

Mayor Rob Ford seems to favour tunneling transit underground in Toronto. But a growing number of international cities, including some in Canada, are casting their eyes to the sky at an unconventional mode that’s cheaper, cleaner and quicker to build than subways and light rail.

Two years ago, when the Star ran a feature on gondolas as public transit — yes, essentially heavy-duty ski lifts — many Toronto readers and politicians said it was crazy talk.

That was before Councillor Doug Ford floated his vision of a lakeside monorail and his brother’s plans for a privately funded Sheppard subway rang increasingly hollow.

Meantime, interest in gondolas has grown in Canada and abroad.

Why not a gondola, asked Professor Amer Shalaby, a University of Toronto transportation engineer, who has studied them as part of a multi-modal transportation plan for Mecca, Saudi Arabia. They could be used to carry pilgrims to the hajj from satellite parking lots around the city. Its roads are so congested that pedestrians and cars compete for space.

Although he’s not advocating gondolas for Toronto, Shalaby doesn’t think it would hurt to look at them.

“It’s not out of the blue. A number of jurisdictions around the world have started using this as a public transit mode,” he said.
http://www.thestar.com/news/transpor...ondola-transit
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  #28  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2012, 12:26 AM
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Toronto used to have a small gondola system. Anyone remember the Alpine Way at the CNE?
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  #29  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2012, 2:52 AM
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There was an aerial tram proposed by the Delaware River Port Authority to run between Philadelphia and Camden. Concrete anchorages were built but the tram was abandoned in the early 00's leaving Penn's Landing with its infamous 'pi':

All photos from Philaphilia







The concrete 'pi':

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  #30  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2012, 3:40 AM
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Although I can see how a gondala would be effective getting to, for example, Toronto Islands & Airport, I don't think it particularily practical in an uban setting.
If someone wants a system like a gondala a better solution would be a suspended monorail like the Wuppertal line which has been running flawlessly since 1905 and has far greater capacity.
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  #31  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2017, 4:17 PM
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Enough With the Gondolamania Already

Read More: http://usa.streetsblog.org/2017/04/1...mania-already/

Quote:
Every week, it seems, there’s a new story about how gondolas are coming to rescue an American city’s transport network. These credulous stories may be inspired by the tremendous success of Medellín, Colombia, where gondolas are a key part of the transit system and carry about 30,000 riders each day over a mountainous landscape. But — but! — this is an unusual case where gondolas make a certain amount of sense because of the city’s tricky geography.

- In American cities, gondolas have mainly served as a distraction from bigger problems facing urban transit systems. In Washington, DC, local governments, Georgetown University, and the Georgetown BID paid $200,000 to study a gondola connecting Georgetown to Arlington over the Potomac River. The millions in annual operating subsidies didn’t sit well with Arlington County, however, which refused to fund the project — citing more pressing needs. --- Likewise, in Austin, Texas, Capital Metro rejected a proposal for an 8.5-mile gondola system with three branches that would cost up to $555 million to build and $6 million to operate annually. The agency concluded that gondolas are suited for “niche” uses, reported KXAN.

- The latest city to give gondolas a public hearing is Cleveland, where a tech entrepreneur has proposed a nine-station system serving the greater downtown area. Gondola booster Jon Stahl presented to the City Planning Commission last week hoping to get some approvals that would generate momentum for a $700,000 feasibility study, which he says private investors will pay for. The Plain Dealer’s Steve Litt called the planning commission’s reception “polite and noncommittal.” For all his enthusiasm, it’s not clear what problem Stahl is trying to solve. The proposed gondola system would connect some of the area’s top tourist attractions.

- Most of which are already mostly connected by free trolley buses run by RTA, plus a rail line that almost no one rides. With transit fares going up for the second year in a row and the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority facing 10 percent service cuts, the city has bigger transportation problems to solve than getting a gondola off the ground. Projects like these have a certain appeal to media outlets. They’re new! They’re flashy! But too many cities are wasting too much time and money on gimmicky distractions instead of the meat and potatoes of running a functional transit system.

.....



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  #32  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2018, 4:30 PM
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Could a gondola system be coming to Boston’s Seaport District?

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/...rlK/story.html

Quote:
.....

- Millennium Partners and Cargo Ventures envision a 1-mile gondola system running above Summer Street to provide transportation between South Station and 12 acres they plan to develop in the city’s marine industrial park. The cable cars would run anywhere from 30 to 50 feet above ground. Developers of the 1,054-room Omni hotel to be built across from the Boston Convention & Exhibition Center seem more enthusiastic about the idea since Millennium and Cargo Ventures agreed to alter the proposed gondola path slightly. Part of the route would be lowered so the cable cars wouldn’t pass directly in front of guest rooms.

- Officials at New York-based Millennium offered a brief comment. Richard Baumert, an executive in the Boston office, said: “The comments regarding the proposed aerial tram are being addressed. Any plans should be considered preliminary and would be inappropriate for us to share at this time.” The revised route would still be anchored at one end by South Station, with the main trunk running above Summer Street, but ending at the entrance to the marine industrial park instead of within Millennium’s development in the park. Millennium, which has developed several luxury residential towers in Boston, said it would pay the roughly $100 million construction cost.

.....



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  #33  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2018, 10:01 PM
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Georgetown gondola

Greater Greater Washington has a good overview of the proposed Georgetown gondola.

A Rosslyn-Georgetown gondola would fill a real hole in our transportation system. Is it worth it?

By David Alpert
Greater Greater Washington
March 14, 2018


Image courtesy of Greater Greater Washington.

"A gondola from Rosslyn to Georgetown? Is this some crazy tourist trap project? A vanity project for already-affluent Georgetown? The more information that comes out, the more it looks like a real transportation concept. While it might not be the one, most important transportation project in the whole region, it's a worthwhile way to help people reach jobs and shops and reduce single-passenger car trips.

A coalition led by the Georgetown Business Improvement District, Georgetown University, and the Federal City Council is leading the effort to plan and possibly construct such a gondola, and asked Greater Greater Washington to consider joining the coalition. Because we're a volunteer-driven organization, our volunteer Editorial Board and Advocacy Committee jointly heard a presentation about the gondola project. The two committees have agreed to GGWash joining the coalition, but since we're also about having a conversation with readers, we wanted to talk about why, including what we're excited about and what hesitations we have..."

https://ggwash.org/view/66774/rossly...ation-worth-it
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  #34  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2018, 8:25 PM
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Aerial tram proposed for Dodger Stadium

Read More: https://la.curbed.com/2018/4/26/1728...-union-station

Quote:
.....

A private company has submitted plans to the city of Los Angeles for an aerial tram that would link Union Station to the ball park in Chavez Ravine. Aerial Rapid Transit Technologies LLC, a company founded by Drew McCourt—the son of former Dodgers own Frank McCourt—announced its plans today for the $125 million project.

- It says it will obtain private financing for construction, but it’s “asking Metro to take the lead role in the procedural requirements for route selection and right of way.” The tram could be up and running in 2022. Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti introduced the proposal to Metro’s Board of Directors this morning, saying the Dodgers would fit the bill for the project. He referred to it as a “world class aerial transit system” and a “bold idea to ease congestion.” --- “If feasible, this will revolutionize access to Dodger Stadium for the 3.7 million fans who visit Chavez Ravine each year,” said Garcetti, who doubles as the chair of Metro’s board.

.....



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  #35  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2018, 9:09 PM
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What Can a Gondola Do for Munich?

Read More: https://www.citylab.com/transportati...ramway/565493/

Quote:
.....

This month, the city is discussing a plan to create a new 4.5-kilometer gondola link in the northern part of the city, linking two districts on the internal beltway that are currently poorly connected for everyone except drivers.

- Supported by the mayor, the regional transit minister, and even the opposition parties in the city’s assembly, it’s a plan that has a strong likelihood of being built. It’s still perhaps a little unexpected: Munich is a flat city with a good public transit network. Gondolas have a mixed reputation, having both transformed mobility in some very hilly cities while failing to be more than gimmicky white elephants in others.

- So would Munich’s embrace of the gondola be a good or a bad thing? And why would the city even need one in the first place? The fact is that even the better public transit systems have their limitations. Munich’s subway (U Bahn), Suburban rail (S Bahn), and tram networks offer good coverage of the area, but they all focus primarily on getting people in and out of the city center. This is fine for commuters, but can pose an inconvenience for people in outlying districts who simply want to travel between two adjacent neighborhoods.

- Bus routes compensate for this, but their speed and efficiency is dependent on road traffic. The gondola poses a solution to a small local issue that could, if effective, be rolled out at other sites in the city. The proposed link would connect two subway stations (at Oberwiesenfeld and Studentenstadt) that sit 4.5 kilometers apart on a major road. Despite being close to each other, it’s time-consuming to travel between them, requiring a five-stop subway trip toward the city center, a transfer, and a five-stop trip back out in a different direction.

- The gondola could knit these two districts tidily together. Sailing over the road, the wires would be far cheaper to install than the terrestrial rails of a train or tram, but still ferry up to 4,000 passengers an hour. Land-wise, the gondola would only take up the space that’s necessary to support its towers. Indeed, the road it would follow already has space for these in the median. To make it a fully functioning link, it’s vital that each terminus connects swiftly to the subway, but broadly the idea seems sensible.

- France in particular has embraced the mode with enthusiasm, with five gondola projects currently under construction and due for opening before 2021. The gondola that the French city of Brest opened across its river in November 2016, for example, celebrated its millionth passenger last month—not bad for a metro area of only 300,000 people. Initially resisted by some residents for fear it would provide unwelcome views into people’s houses, Brest resolved the issue ingeniously by installing windows that misted temporarily when the cars neared people’s homes.

- London’s Emirates Air Line nonetheless remains a cautionary tale of what to avoid. Constructed at the time of the Olympics, it was promoted as both a transit link and tourist attraction. Due to a poorly chosen, out-of-the-way location, it hasn’t functioned well as either. — There have been some preposterous suggestions in the German media that Munich’s proposed gondola might possibly be a tourist attraction as well. The route offers little to look at, but proponents are sensibly focusing on its role as a transit fix, rather than a sightseeing adventure.

.....



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  #36  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2019, 10:59 PM
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Don’t Miss this Golden Gondola Opportunity

https://sf.streetsblog.org/2019/02/0...a-opportunity/

Quote:
.....

- The renderings of the proposal for a new Oakland A’s ballpark at Howard Terminal, Jack London Square were all over the mainstream media this week. As was the aerial gondola (seen in the lead image) that the team hopes will someday ferry people from BART to the park. But is a gondola the right way to connect the new stadium to BART? Gondolas are a good solution if there’s an obstacle between two nearby points that make buses, bikes, etc. impractical. --- So what’s a gondola trying to bridge between Howard Terminal and downtown Oakland? Even an out-of-shape cyclist can bike the totally flat streets from 12th Street Oakland BART or West Oakland BART to Howard Terminal in a touch over five minutes. How about the A’s fund some protected bike lanes with that gondola money! Scooters can also do the job just fine, as can connecting buses. Sports fans could even–gasp–walk it in about 20 minutes.

- Meanwhile, on the other side of the Howard Terminal site, there’s the Oakland estuary, cutting it off from Western Alameda, with its thousands of residential units full of potential sports fans (and thousands more getting built) not to mention a huge shopping district. The only way to get between those two locations is a significant backtrack to the mouths of the Webster and Posey car tunnels, which have no real pedestrian and bike access. --- There are proposals to build a bike and ped bridge across the estuary, but that has issues with providing clearances for ships and sailboats. A draw bridge is the obvious solution, but that will be up a lot of the time to make way for passing boats. But getting over a shipping channel is exactly what a gondola is good at. That’s why a gondola crossing of the estuary has been proposed before, but no project has coalesced.

- So why not merge both proposals to give the region a single project that makes sense for the ballpark and the surrounding communities? Build the ballpark’s gondola, but don’t stop at the estuary–cross it! Brian McGuire, President of Bike Walk Alameda, seemed to like the idea. “If I were in charge, I would place an Alameda gondola station in the heart of Webster St., at Lincoln perhaps, to get you all the way there,” he wrote in an email to Streetsblog. --- Build a gondola from BART to the stadium to Alameda, and residents of Alameda get an alternative to the clogged Posey and Webster tubes to reach Oakland and BART. Jack London residents get access to the shopping centers in Western Alameda. And the Oakland A’s get a better connection to sports fans coming from both directions.

.....



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  #37  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2019, 11:21 PM
emathias emathias is offline
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What's a typical cost per KM and per station for systems built in dense cities in developed countries?
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  #38  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2019, 5:00 PM
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I think that outside of difficult terrain, these are rather impractical. Also, based off my skiing experience, they'd better have a plan in case the gondola shuts down. At least a generator lol. I would not want to be stuck up there.
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  #39  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 6:46 PM
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cleveland has been thinking about gondolas along the waterfront for quite awhile now.

http://clevelandskylift.com/

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  #40  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 7:31 AM
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"There's a system in Asia where one of the stations is located in a skyscraper. The technology is incredibly flexible."

Chongqing (China) Yangtze River Ropeway

from wikipedia
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