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  #301  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 4:30 PM
IanWatson IanWatson is offline
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Originally Posted by ScovaNotian View Post
So those don't need to be parked?
Three different scenarios could lead to lower need for parking:

1) We all end up basically using self-driving taxis: no need for parking.
2) We continue to own our own cars, but after dropping us off they drive themselves to a holding lot on cheaper land outside of downtown: still need parking, but the location is changed.
3) We all continue to own the cars, but for technical/legal/traffic issues they aren't able/allowed to do scenario 2: park on-site, but you still need less parking (in terms of area), because the car is much more precise in parking itself than a human and you don't need to open the doors after the car is parked, so the circulation areas and parking spaces can be much smaller than they are currently.
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  #302  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 4:38 PM
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The project architect was quoted as saying that parking requirements could drop drastically in coming years with self-driving cars, so the parking is above-ground so it can be converted to other uses in the future. I wonder whether this was indeed part of their decision-making, or just post hoc justification. Interesting that architects and developers are starting to think about it though.
This could be true but there are also more mundane justifications for less parking in new buildings in the future. There's more and more stuff available by delivery or within walking distance in downtown Halifax, and younger people (now even those in their 30's, in 10 years this will be people in their 40's) drive a lot less and in many cases don't even have licenses.
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  #303  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 7:18 PM
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This could be true but there are also more mundane justifications for less parking in new buildings in the future. There's more and more stuff available by delivery or within walking distance in downtown Halifax, and younger people (now even those in their 30's, in 10 years this will be people in their 40's) drive a lot less and in many cases don't even have licenses.
Many car manufacturers expect to have vehicles that are self-driving on highways by 2020 and completely driverless in all environments several years later (roughly 2025-2030), so it's not all that far away. About 95% of all new cars sold in 2040 are expected by be fully autonomous.

Obviously, some will opt-in before others for various reasons, but it's not unreasonable to posit that somebody born today may never need to get a license nor own a car. Those who still do 15 yrs from now might increasingly be looked at as a sort of oddity, like someone who still buys CDs today!

Were I to move into this building, I'd likely sell my vehicle, and make use of the many CarShare cars in the area until such time as a useable fleet of fully autonomous cars arrives on the scene.

Some developers are offering discounts on CarShare Halifax memberships to tenants.
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  #304  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 8:25 PM
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Were I to move into this building, I'd likely sell my vehicle, and make use of the many CarShare cars in the area until such time as a useable fleet of fully autonomous cars arrives on the scene.

Some developers are offering discounts on CarShare Halifax memberships to tenants.
Isn't CarShare just a greenwashed rent a car operation?
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  #305  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 8:33 PM
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Originally Posted by goldeneye77 View Post
Many car manufacturers expect to have vehicles that are self-driving on highways by 2020 and completely driverless in all environments several years later (roughly 2025-2030), so it's not all that far away. About 95% of all new cars sold in 2040 are expected by be fully autonomous.

Obviously, some will opt-in before others for various reasons, but it's not unreasonable to posit that somebody born today may never need to get a license nor own a car. Those who still do 15 yrs from now might increasingly be looked at as a sort of oddity, like someone who still buys CDs today!

Were I to move into this building, I'd likely sell my vehicle, and make use of the many CarShare cars in the area until such time as a useable fleet of fully autonomous cars arrives on the scene.

Some developers are offering discounts on CarShare Halifax memberships to tenants.
If y'all have an hour to kill, a point of view on what the (near-ish) future holds re. transportation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duWFnukFJhQ

and! debate....
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  #306  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2018, 8:43 PM
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Isn't CarShare just a greenwashed rent a car operation?
It's fundamentally a form of rental but there are a bunch of features that things much easier.

One is that you can unlock the car with your phone, another is that there are lots more pickup and drop-off locations. You normally do not interact with a human during the use of these services.

If Halifax were to get Uber-like service it would make a big difference too. Does Halifax have Uber Eats? Vancouver had Uber deliveries but not car rides.

I own a car but I have a feeling this will be my last one unless it dies prematurely.

There will still be a range of car ownership levels in the future and there will be people who need to drive all the time for work, but the average number of spots needed (or demanded by the market) will go down.
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  #307  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2018, 1:09 PM
IanWatson IanWatson is offline
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Isn't CarShare just a greenwashed rent a car operation?
It's somewhat like a car rental operation, but it's cheaper for most use cases, and you can get a car in most of the central parts of the city rather than having to go out of your way to go to the rental depot. Plus you just swipe your fob and get in rather than standing there waiting to fill out paperwork. Also, you only pay for the time you use, so you can use it for 45 minutes of errands rather than renting a car for a whole day. CarShare also pays for the gas (and builds the cost into their rates).

It also probably is more "green" than renting a car because pretty much all of their vehicles are very fuel-efficient.

The downside compared to renting a car is that they tend to be much smaller vehicles that aren't brand new or full-featured (many still lack cruise control).

CarShare isn't really a direct replacement for rental cars. The niche it fills is running errands or short day-trips for people who don't have a car or families who don't want to have a second car. I live right downtown so up until last year I used CarShare and it really did make it so I didn't need to own a car. 90% of my travel is done on foot or ferry, CarShare covered the other 9.9%, and then for those rare occasions where I was going far and wanted a nicer car I would rent.

Now I have a toddler. I did still do CarShare for a little while, but it got to be too much hassle lugging her carseat along with her and then trying to install it while watching her. So I got a car, and pay a lot for the privilege of parking it downtown. Once she grows out of carseats (which I guess is like never these days... kids have to be in those things for years now), I might go back to CarShare; it was convenient and saved a ton of money.
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  #308  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2018, 1:49 PM
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I own a car but I have a feeling this will be my last one unless it dies prematurely.
This is the feeling I have as well. I drive as part of my job, but the minute I get a job that allows me to walk, bike or bus, I'm selling. Carshare or rail (if it improves) would cover any out-of-city trips.
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  #309  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2018, 11:29 PM
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Don't know much about carshare, but I am curious in how it deals with damage or soiling of the car... i.e. what happens if somebody backs it into a tree and doesn't report it, or spills an entire coffee on the seat. Where's the proof that you didn't do it if you are the next one who gets it?

Regarding autonomous vehicles, I'm still skeptical on the timeline set forth by some of the manufacturers and advocacy groups. There's a whole lot of technology there that has to work perfectly in all situations to avoid killing people or just stopping in the middle of the road when it faults out... lots of liability to be had, and I don't think there is anywhere near agreement by the governing entities on how the legalities and responsibilities will pan out.

I can appreciate how people are drawn towards alternate methods of transportation, but surely there must be some people here who actually enjoy driving and perfecting the craft... Maybe I'm alone in this forum, but I just can't help but appreciate skillful driving, and enjoy trying to perfect my own skills as such. Car expenses are something I am happy to spend money on as it affords such freedom and enjoyment, but I get it for those who are not so inclined... to each his/her own.

But, for those who may still enjoy the act of driving one's own vehicle, I respectfully present Ken Block's latest... please don't try this on public roads (unless they are barricaded off as they are in these videos)!

Ken Block
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  #310  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2018, 1:05 AM
ILoveHalifax ILoveHalifax is offline
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Don't know much about carshare, but I am curious in how it deals with damage or soiling of the car... i.e. what happens if somebody backs it into a tree and doesn't report it, or spills an entire coffee on the seat. Where's the proof that you didn't do it if you are the next one who gets it?

Regarding autonomous vehicles, I'm still skeptical on the timeline set forth by some of the manufacturers and advocacy groups. There's a whole lot of technology there that has to work perfectly in all situations to avoid killing people or just stopping in the middle of the road when it faults out... lots of liability to be had, and I don't think there is anywhere near agreement by the governing entities on how the legalities and responsibilities will pan out.

I can appreciate how people are drawn towards alternate methods of transportation, but surely there must be some people here who actually enjoy driving and perfecting the craft... Maybe I'm alone in this forum, but I just can't help but appreciate skillful driving, and enjoy trying to perfect my own skills as such. Car expenses are something I am happy to spend money on as it affords such freedom and enjoyment, but I get it for those who are not so inclined... to each his/her own.

But, for those who may still enjoy the act of driving one's own vehicle, I respectfully present Ken Block's latest... please don't try this on public roads (unless they are barricaded off as they are in these videos)!

Ken Block
I used to live in the south end and did not have a great need for a car. There was a Car Share in the parking lot next door but it was not always convenient or available when I wanted it; sometimes I had to walk a ways to get to another car. I personally like to drive a vehicle with some style, class and comfort and non of that was available in a Car Share. You were also required to book a return time which left no freedom for spontaneity. I much prefer to own my own car in my own garage.
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  #311  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2018, 1:32 PM
IanWatson IanWatson is offline
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
what happens if somebody backs it into a tree and doesn't report it, or spills an entire coffee on the seat. Where's the proof that you didn't do it if you are the next one who gets it?
You do a quick walk around the car when you get there, and if there are issues you give the hotline a call to report it. In my experience, people are pretty good about leaving cars clean. In my 1.5 years using it I did have one time where I showed up to a crack in the windshield. I called it in, and since it wasn't obstructing safe use of the vehicle I used it. If it had made the vehicle inoperable they would have got me a cab.

Quote:
Maybe I'm alone in this forum, but I just can't help but appreciate skillful driving, and enjoy trying to perfect my own skills as such.

Ken Block
I too very much enjoy driving... when I'm focused on the driving: weekend road trips on winding secondary highways, etc. But I'd say 98% of the driving I have to do is a chore. It's dealing with traffic, and a-holes who tailgate or swing in front of you without signalling, or driving boring 100-series highways. I suspect we'll never see people-driven cars truly go away. Instead they'll just become a hobby (probably for the wealthy or semi-wealthy), just like horses did. And yeah, Ken Block is epic!

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Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax
You were also required to book a return time which left no freedom for spontaneity.
They now have "Flex" cars, which are open-ended for booking (i.e. you don't need to pre-select an end time), and can be dropped off anywhere in certain designated areas (a lot of the Peninsula, and Downtown Dartmouth). The Flex cars definitely make spontaneous trips much more possible.
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  #312  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2018, 4:52 PM
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They now have "Flex" cars, which are open-ended for booking (i.e. you don't need to pre-select an end time), and can be dropped off anywhere in certain designated areas (a lot of the Peninsula, and Downtown Dartmouth). The Flex cars definitely make spontaneous trips much more possible.
So it sounds like a standard rental car then? I cannot understand why HRM is giving this outfit special treatment.
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  #313  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2018, 5:58 PM
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So it sounds like a standard rental car then? I cannot understand why HRM is giving this outfit special treatment.
Did you even read my previous post?
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  #314  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2018, 7:51 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Thanks for the clarifications above. I can see why it would be a viable alternative for some.

I can also understand the desire for self-driving cars in the future. There are certain parts of driving that are a chore and can be quite frustrating.

It's obvious to me that many of the drivers on the road would rather be doing other things (like texting or talking on their phones) and thus I've noticed that less and less attention is being given to the act of driving and perhaps the desire to become good at it. So self-driving cars would definitely be an improvement on that front.

We'll see where the technology goes, but I do know they have a l-o-o-o-n-n-g way to go before it is viable on a grand scale, and even moreso in areas that experience cold temps, ice, and snow.

Sorry for the derail... back to topic.
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  #315  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2018, 8:04 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Don't know much about carshare, but I am curious in how it deals with damage or soiling of the car... i.e. what happens if somebody backs it into a tree and doesn't report it, or spills an entire coffee on the seat. Where's the proof that you didn't do it if you are the next one who gets it?

Regarding autonomous vehicles, I'm still skeptical on the timeline set forth by some of the manufacturers and advocacy groups. There's a whole lot of technology there that has to work perfectly in all situations to avoid killing people or just stopping in the middle of the road when it faults out... lots of liability to be had, and I don't think there is anywhere near agreement by the governing entities on how the legalities and responsibilities will pan out.

I can appreciate how people are drawn towards alternate methods of transportation, but surely there must be some people here who actually enjoy driving and perfecting the craft... Maybe I'm alone in this forum, but I just can't help but appreciate skillful driving, and enjoy trying to perfect my own skills as such. Car expenses are something I am happy to spend money on as it affords such freedom and enjoyment, but I get it for those who are not so inclined... to each his/her own.

But, for those who may still enjoy the act of driving one's own vehicle, I respectfully present Ken Block's latest... please don't try this on public roads (unless they are barricaded off as they are in these videos)!

Ken Block
I think the liability issue will be the trickiest one. The current technology is already arguably as safe or safer than the average human driver, although we've set a pretty low bar -- approximately 2 MILLION lives have been lost in the US alone due to motor vehicle accidents in the past 50 years. A mark that not even gun deaths can match over the same time period, which is really saying something.

It's really going to represent a monumental shift over the next 10, 20, 30 years and will have a major impact on where people live and work as commutes will become greatly simplified and parking concerns will be virtually irrelevant. Traffic flow will be vastly improved due to the superior data that the software has at its disposal with regard to the road network, the ability for each car to communicate with one another, and the greater capacity that the existing roads will have due to cars no longer having to waste valuable space for parking.
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  #316  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2018, 10:16 PM
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I think the liability issue will be the trickiest one. The current technology is already arguably as safe or safer than the average human driver, although we've set a pretty low bar
I think these comparisons are a bit strained and usually favour the companies that engineer these vehicles and the self-driving capabilities.

The self-driving cars tend to operate in the best conditions as taxis with human drivers who are able to take over. The humans have to intervene frequently in all cases, so we don't know how many accidents they are averting. Or how much worse it would be if a bunch of these cars were all driving along a 10 lane highway in a sudden snowstorm.

I think this is one of those areas where the first 99% of driving time takes about 10% of the effort. Almost-self-driving cars are much much easier than fully-self-driving cars. So it's hard to predict how far off the fully-automated cars are.

Driving is also safer than most people think, particularly if you know your driver is reasonable. A disproportionate number of injuries and deaths are inflicted on the vehicles of drivers engaged in risky behaviour. And even then you have to drive something like 200 years on average before dying in a car accident. That 2 million figure over 50 years exaggerates how bad it is today. The chance of dying from a car last year in the US was about 0.01%, so lifetime risk around 0.8% (out of a risk of death of 100%). McDonald's is probably more dangerous than cars. This doesn't mean that we shouldn't make cars safer of course.
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  #317  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2018, 10:38 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by goldeneye77 View Post
I think the liability issue will be the trickiest one. The current technology is already arguably as safe or safer than the average human driver, although we've set a pretty low bar -- approximately 2 MILLION lives have been lost in the US alone due to motor vehicle accidents in the past 50 years. A mark that not even gun deaths can match over the same time period, which is really saying something.

It's really going to represent a monumental shift over the next 10, 20, 30 years and will have a major impact on where people live and work as commutes will become greatly simplified and parking concerns will be virtually irrelevant. Traffic flow will be vastly improved due to the superior data that the software has at its disposal with regard to the road network, the ability for each car to communicate with one another, and the greater capacity that the existing roads will have due to cars no longer having to waste valuable space for parking.
I agree about the liability issue, and I have no argument that human drivers are on average, pretty poor.

I don't agree that the current level of technology is all that great, though. Sure, they can build prototype systems at great cost that will work well in most situations, but usually they are being babysat by "drivers" to take over in case there are any problems, and/or used in very controlled situations. We don't really know how well they will operate until they are actually put into the hands of customers who have virtually no knowledge or understanding of how the systems work, and how to problem-solve if they don't.

Additionally, they will have to be built with cost in mind, so they will be affordable to their customers. This will put limitations on the quality of the components/software used, the level of redundant systems, etc. If people can't afford them, nobody will buy them.

Then, they will have to work reliably, day after day while being basically unattended. So that means they can't glitch out (ever seen a computer or phone that does not have some kind of intermittent system glitch?) It would be unacceptable for an unattended car to simply stop in the middle of the road when it glitches out, or in a worst-case scenario - run over a group of pedestrians because of some system or component failure.

True enough, people are not perfect drivers, and all too often cause serious injury or death because of their mistakes or poor judgement. However, autonomous vehicles would not be allowed the level of forgiveness that we grant to other humans who make mistakes. Therein lies the engineering challenge, IMHO.

It will be interesting to see where it all goes, but remember before we get too starry-eyed, all the Buck Rogers type fantasies of the past that indicated that we would all have flying cars by now and so much leisure time because of all the computers and machinery doing our work for us... I'd be happy with the excess leisure time...
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  #318  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2018, 10:40 PM
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Did you even read my previous post?
I did which is why I asked the question. How is a "flex" Carshare fundamentally different from a regular rental car?
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  #319  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2018, 11:06 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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I did which is why I asked the question. How is a "flex" Carshare fundamentally different from a regular rental car?
One more question, who is responsible for fueling them up?

Sorry, people opening this thread and expecting to read about Cunard Block... enquiring minds want to know!
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  #320  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2018, 1:28 PM
IanWatson IanWatson is offline
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I did which is why I asked the question. How is a "flex" Carshare fundamentally different from a regular rental car?
They're located all around the city instead of at central rental locations, and you can drop them off anywhere within the zone.

The huge difference though is that you only use them for as long as you need. I would never rent a car to go to a one hour meeting, but I would do that with a CarShare. The "flex" cars make it easier because you don't have to specify an end time when you book the car. With the "fixed" cars you have to say something like, "I want it from 2 to 4 on Tuesday", but I definitely had a few times where meetings went long or there was traffic and it was stressful getting it back in time.

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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark
One more question, who is responsible for fueling them up?
There's a fleet fuel card in each car and you're responsible for ensuring it's returned with at least half a tank.

CarShare does the regular maintenance like oil changes, fluid top-ups, cleaning, and swapping out summer tires for winter.
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