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  #4421  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 6:05 PM
Always Sunny in SLC Always Sunny in SLC is offline
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Ha! But you made them much more thoroughly. I think the regulation aspect is interesting. If this article is from a libertarian think tank, then yeah, it would seem that them arguing against a developer's preference to build densely would be internally inconsistent. But is there a case here for a less regulated approach to density in cities? By which I mean, clearly it is more difficult to go through the planning and approval process for a midrise downtown than it is for a cul de sac in Eagle Mountain, which would raise the costs for the downtown development, and therefor drive up the housing prices for the individuals renting/buying in the downtown property. Of course, lack of regulation can lead to more chaotic/inappropriate development, so there's a trade off. Hypothetically, the market could dictate that if developers built shabby, inappropriate, or otherwise undesirable developments then people won't live there, but often people in the real world will take whatever housing they can get, so it seems to me that there is a pretty reasonable argument for at least some regulation. Does anyone know of real world examples of cities with very strict zoning and cumbersome regulation versus a more laissez faire paradigm? Is one cheaper than the other, and also is one a more "livable" city than the other?
Yes, there is a correlation between restrictive zoning and housing affordability and cost. The website Market Urbanism tracks that here.

As for changing how we zone I love form based zoning. I don't get the impression there is much love for this kind of zoning on this forum, but from what I see it has way more upside than down.
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  #4422  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 12:23 AM
sthbrown4 sthbrown4 is offline
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Salt Lake Convention Center Hotel Renderings

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  #4423  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 12:51 AM
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Well that's extremely underwhelming. If that holds, it'll be the exact same height as the Beneficial Financial Group Tower.
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  #4424  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 12:51 AM
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It's about what I expected. Not remarkable. Definitely a wall. At 305 feet, it is the same width of the Wells Fargo building. 335 feet puts it at the same height as Gateway Tower West, so tied for 7th tallest, 8th once Tower 8 is finished. But most the roofline is 311 feet which is slightly shorter than 222 S Main. Kinda wish the wall fronted 200 South instead of West Temple, and that it was, well, not as wide.

I'm just pleased this is finally moving forward and that it appears to be mostly glass. I haven't been a fan of the cement exteriors on some of the newer CCHs in other cities. They age quickly. I'd like to see more polished renderings.
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  #4425  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 1:24 AM
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Also some additional info from the planning submission document about ground floor use.

Parking will be below ground and will be connected to the already existing Salt Palace parking. The ground floor is meant to be continually engaging and thus will have the following:

1. A corner cafe/market on the corner of 200 South and West Temple with public seating area.
2. A restaurant/bar fronting West Temple.
3. Lobby entrance on West Temple between the corner market and the restaurant.
4. Drop off and parking entrance as well as another lobby entrance fronting 200 S.

Unfortunately no Cinemark like I'd heard rumors of, but I'm satisfied with the activation.



And another rendering to gauge the placement in the skyline:


Thanks for keeping an eye out for the documents sthbrown!
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  #4426  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 1:27 AM
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Also, no hotel operator yet?
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  #4427  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 1:38 AM
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SL Convention Hotel

The design is better than I expected. Although, I really think they ought to build a smaller second wing in an L-shape or parallel on the opposite side of the base structure in order to bring the room count up to 1,000.
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  #4428  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 2:31 AM
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Yes! A wall!

That said, I kinda like it. Not terrible at all. Love they huge video screens
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  #4429  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 3:33 AM
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I like it, too. Though, I agree about the 'wall' comments. I wish SLC would put in their code, Maximum width requirements. We have enough building square footage on this tower and Tower 8 that would warrant taller and slender buildings, or incentivize more buildings with smaller footprints.

About the design, I like how they incorporated the existing glass cylinder/rotundas and let that influence the form of the building. And, I like that it is mostly glass. It will stand out.

Regarding the height, remember the confusion in the media reports about its height. I assumed that it would be close to the height of the 30 story res. tower 99 West, because it was a 26 story hotel with 3 or 4 tall levels of convention floors. I think the height is great.

Also, did anyone notice that the address they placed on the front cover is completely wrong? South Temple W200S

Last edited by Orlando; Feb 12, 2019 at 5:20 AM.
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  #4430  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 5:19 AM
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A few things:

1. The hotel is limited by the 375' max height for the overlay zone. This forced the hotel to be wider than originally desired. The County had wanted a slimmer, taller building but the City wanted to limit the height. The hotel is still required to go through CBDR for approval but with the State and County pushing as well as the City, it is unlikely that any changes will be coming to the overall design.
2. Hotel operator and flag was listed sometime late 2017 or early 2018 to be Intercontinental.
3. The goal is to have the approvals come quickly so that a contractor and workers can be locked in as soon as possible. With the construction market being tight, the sooner things can get moving, the less labor will ultimately cost.
4. The Cinemark is a possible addition for the Arrow Press Square hotel (details below).

Just to note, there is still a possible 2nd phase at the north location that would include a residential component as well an additional hotel tower. It will be contingent on the increase in conventions/meetings and how the APS hotel complex turns out.

Speaking on APS, last I heard it is planned to include the previously mentioned theater, 500-700 rooms and include at least 1 residential building (15 to 20 stories). Construction isn't expected to start until 2022 or 2023 at the earliest. This may change now that the plans for the CCH have been released.
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  #4431  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 5:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makid View Post
A few things:

1. The hotel is limited by the 375' max height for the overlay zone. This forced the hotel to be wider than originally desired. The County had wanted a slimmer, taller building but the City wanted to limit the height. The hotel is still required to go through CBDR for approval but with the State and County pushing as well as the City, it is unlikely that any changes will be coming to the overall design.
2. Hotel operator and flag was listed sometime late 2017 or early 2018 to be Intercontinental.
3. The goal is to have the approvals come quickly so that a contractor and workers can be locked in as soon as possible. With the construction market being tight, the sooner things can get moving, the less labor will ultimately cost.
4. The Cinemark is a possible addition for the Arrow Press Square hotel (details below).

Just to note, there is still a possible 2nd phase at the north location that would include a residential component as well an additional hotel tower. It will be contingent on the increase in conventions/meetings and how the APS hotel complex turns out.

Speaking on APS, last I heard it is planned to include the previously mentioned theater, 500-700 rooms and include at least 1 residential building (15 to 20 stories). Construction isn't expected to start until 2022 or 2023 at the earliest. This may change now that the plans for the CCH have been released.
Thanks for the info Makid. This is such a huge deal for the city. There are no less than three large scale projects with hotel components that were stalled because everybody, including the banks, where waiting for the CCH shoe to drop. It's the ultimate catalytic project. I'm pleasantly surprised by the design. I just wish SLC would codify width like many hear have suggested. This thing will cast a huge shadow.
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  #4432  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 6:09 AM
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Kind of a new Block 67 article 1/21/19

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  #4433  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 3:02 PM
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"The first phase of construction on the apartments and commercial space is set to begin in spring."

CCH, Tower 8, Liberty Sky, 250 State, Block 67 all breaking ground in 2019? Nice!
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  #4434  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 3:22 PM
FullCircle FullCircle is offline
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Originally Posted by Pencil View Post
I appreciate this perspective and am glad I'm now aware of it. If they really aren't trying to block the development but just want to make sure some of their concerns are met, then I think that's totally reasonable. Best I could tell, they had three main concerns. One is the construction noise; which, sorry, it's downtown, it's going to happen eventually; just comes with the territory. Two was that they don't want stinky trash right next to them; fair enough, work with the developers to make sure that doesn't happen. Three, that they want to be able to block off the street for festivals, which is great and the developers should agree to still allow that (or rather, not block the city from allowing it). It also seems like a good opportunity, with new retail space available, to bring in some Japanese businesses to the area. After construction is done, and if done right, it seems like it could really be a benefit to Japantown, not a detriment.
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  #4435  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 3:33 PM
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I like the design -- same concerns that most of y'all have, and have already stated better than I would. So...yeah. Shiny. Now get it built.
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  #4436  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 3:47 PM
Makid Makid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nushiof View Post
"The first phase of construction on the apartments and commercial space is set to begin in spring."

CCH, Tower 8, Liberty Sky, 250 State, Block 67 all breaking ground in 2019? Nice!
Don't forget The Exchange.

The 255 S State project probably won't start until 2020 but it may be as early as Q1 2020.

Because excavation will take a while for some of the projects, I don't think we will see the full extent of the cranes until early next year anyway.

The following is just an estimate of the cranes we will see:

The Exchange: 1
Tower 8: 1
Liberty Sky: 1 (1 also for the parking garage)
CCH: 2
Block 67 Phase 1: 2

We may have 6-7 cranes between 1st and 2nd South and State St. to 3rd West.

In addition to these fully confirmed projects there have also been movement on 370 Millennium (Held) and Salt Developments 10 story project along 5th West and North Temple. There is also a residential building (not sure it has a name yet) that will be built at 10 or 11 stories near The Morton that is going through CBDR currently.

I also have an unconfirmed rumor that the twin low rise buildings on the SE corner of West Temple and 2nd South (Olive Garden) will be being redeveloped in the next few years (2 to 5). The only confirmation for this rumor and why I am posting about it is that recently zoning requests were made for the 2 buildings. It could be a coincidence on the timing but who doesn't like a rumor or 2 with a little bit of teeth.
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  #4437  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 3:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makid View Post
Don't forget The Exchange.

The 255 S State project probably won't start until 2020 but it may be as early as Q1 2020.

Because excavation will take a while for some of the projects, I don't think we will see the full extent of the cranes until early next year anyway.

The following is just an estimate of the cranes we will see:

The Exchange: 1
Tower 8: 1
Liberty Sky: 1 (1 also for the parking garage)
CCH: 2
Block 67 Phase 1: 2

We may have 6-7 cranes between 1st and 2nd South and State St. to 3rd West.

In addition to these fully confirmed projects there have also been movement on 370 Millennium (Held) and Salt Developments 10 story project along 5th West and North Temple. There is also a residential building (not sure it has a name yet) that will be built at 10 or 11 stories near The Morton that is going through CBDR currently.

I also have an unconfirmed rumor that the twin low rise buildings on the SE corner of West Temple and 2nd South (Olive Garden) will be being redeveloped in the next few years (2 to 5). The only confirmation for this rumor and why I am posting about it is that recently zoning requests were made for the 2 buildings. It could be a coincidence on the timing but who doesn't like a rumor or 2 with a little bit of teeth.
Twin "low rise" buildings.... What exactly constitutes a "low rise" building? 5 stories? 10? 15?

Also, we need someone to 'shop all these new towers to see what we are looking forward to!
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  #4438  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 4:04 PM
Makid Makid is offline
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Originally Posted by wrendog View Post
Twin "low rise" buildings.... What exactly constitutes a "low rise" building? 5 stories? 10? 15?

Also, we need someone to 'shop all these new towers to see what we are looking forward to!
For these, I think they are only 7 stories. For the term, it varies based on buildings. I have seen 14 stories as the cutoff but I have also seen 10 stories.
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  #4439  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 5:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Pencil View Post
This seems to be a new rendering of Phase 1. You can see some design changes have been made.


This is a new rendering of the Aloft hotel in Phase 1.




Check out this 3D virtual map of Japantown provided by the Mariott Library:

http://tour.mapsalive.com/39574/page1.htm

Also, here are some photos of what Japantown used to look like:


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  #4440  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 8:02 PM
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delts145 delts145 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

About the design, I like how they incorporated the existing glass cylinder/rotundas and let that influence the form of the building. And, I like that it is mostly glass. It will stand out.

Regarding the height, remember the confusion in the media reports about its height. I assumed that it would be close to the height of the 30 story res. tower 99 West, because it was a 26 story hotel with 3 or 4 tall levels of convention floors. I think the height is great.

Also, did anyone notice that the address they placed on the front cover is completely wrong? South Temple W200S



I like the design much for the same reasons as outlined by Orlando. This is much better than I had feared, given some of the rumors this past year.
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