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  #101  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2007, 1:37 AM
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Brookfield's 9th Avenue site plan model...




These buildings will tower over the new Madison Square Garden




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  #102  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2007, 3:18 PM
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You can tell Brookfield learned a lesson from the initial reaction to the BBB WTC rebuild proposals...

No boring place holders for these guys.

How realistic it is that 900 foot skyscrapers will be built that tilt near the top, though, I'm not so sure... something tells me it wouldn't be a very popular feature for the denizens.
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  #103  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2007, 4:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolCzech View Post
You can tell Brookfield learned a lesson from the initial reaction to the BBB WTC rebuild proposals...

No boring place holders for these guys.

How realistic it is that 900 foot skyscrapers will be built that tilt near the top, though, I'm not so sure... something tells me it wouldn't be a very popular feature for the denizens.
Those rounded curved placeholders are for Hudson Yards and most likely will be far from what the final design will be.

Contare... Brookfield is downplaying their two "boxy" 4.7msf "place holder" towers just west of Farley station as shown in the models above. For these two towers, they are purposely downplaying the height of these two towers in order NOT to draw attention or alert the nimbys i.e., the northern boxy tower appears to be 700-800' but in reality is a placeholder for 1.6msf or 1100+ ft. tower and the southern boxy tower appears to be 800-900' but is a placeholder for 2.5msf or a 1300+ ft. tower.
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  #104  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2007, 5:15 PM
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That must have been one hell of a lot of interns waiting in line for the laser printer or a wood cutter to produce those city models.
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  #105  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2007, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Adyton View Post
Those rounded curved placeholders are for Hudson Yards and most likely will be far from what the final design will be.
I wouldn't call that a placeholder, though there would undoubtedly be design revisions.


Quote:
the northern boxy tower appears to be 700-800' but in reality is a placeholder for 1.6msf or 1100+ ft. tower and the southern boxy tower appears to be 800-900' but is a placeholder for 2.5msf or a 1300+ ft. tower.
Although Brookfield's 4 railyard towers are each less than 2 msf, the floorplates are different from the typical, big box towers that have large bases. The larger of the two 9th Ave office towers would probably be in the 1,000 ft range, but I doubt the smaller would. David Childs is working on that one as well.
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  #106  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2007, 4:28 PM
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What is with the greenery/park spilling into the roadway in those last renderings?
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  #107  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2007, 4:29 PM
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What is with the greenery/park spilling into the roadway in those last renderings?
Probably an elevated park.
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  #108  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2007, 6:33 PM
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The Highline.
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  #109  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2007, 6:50 PM
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The Highline.
He's talking about the one to the far right.
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  #110  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2007, 2:43 PM
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He's talking about the one to the far right.
You mean the far right of the leftside? That's also the High Line, the
spur that Gary Barnet wants to connect to his Steven Holl designed tower.

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  #111  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2007, 9:36 PM
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Slight change in plans. Here's a quote from an article in the Observer:
http://www.observer.com/2007/brookfi...ide?page=0%2C0


Brookfield’s Ric Clark: ‘Once in a Century’ Chance on West Side

by Eliot Brown
November 27, 2007

What’s the status of your plans to develop a large site on Ninth Avenue just west of Penn Station?

We’re just working through the details on a couple of different alternatives.
The site at the moment looks most likely like it will be a two-building office complex, roughly five million rentable square feet, with a grand covered public space in between the two buildings.
A variation on that scheme is, we might include a hotel/residential building on the southwest portion of the site.

Would you build the commercial on spec, or would you want an anchor tenant?

The current thinking—the smallest building on the property is about 1.8 million square feet. That’s a very sizable building to do on spec, so most likely we would look to land an office tenant.
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  #112  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2007, 10:19 PM
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Quote from an article posted in the West Side thread:
http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet...VER15/GIStory/

West Side Story

SINCLAIR STEWART
December 15, 2007

For several weeks last month, all of these groups were crammed into a small showroom across from Grand Central Station, where the public could inspect their models, talk to company officials and provide commentary in a suggestion box. Brookfield, with some luck, won a coveted spot next to the entrance, and its presentation was arguably the most sophisticated - walls were plastered with images of gleaming glass buildings and families gamboling in green parks.

Yet the slick presentations belie a vexing logistical problem for the builders: pouring foundations and erecting a platform without disrupting the train traffic. Every morning, after disgorging passengers at Penn Station, the trains continue east and park in the yard; at rush hour, they swing back to Penn, pick up travellers, and transport them to Long Island and New Jersey.

The MTA has said it can close just four of the 30 tracks at any one time to facilitate construction, meaning any development effort will require considerable precision.

Most developers, including Brookfield, are pitching a plan that would set foundations in the ground, and use the buildings to help disperse the weight of the platform, which would reach 10 metres above street level at its highest point.

Complicating matters further is the uneven grade of the area, particularly a steep hill that descends from 10th Avenue, which is well above the yards, to the Hudson River, where trains are at street level. The unusual nature of the site has created all kinds of unexpected headaches; merely designing lobbies for Brookfield's office towers here required an enormous amount of engineering work, given that their placement would be directly above a sensitive area of the tracks.

But the company has been grappling with precisely this issue for some time now, given its other development project at 9th Avenue, directly across from the Farley Post Office, a Beaux Arts colossus that is itself slated for redevelopment.

This 9th Avenue site, about 40 per cent the size of yards, may be even more complex, given its placement above a busier portion of underground tracks. Brookfield is hoping to break ground on a platform at this site next year, and will no doubt argue that this puts it in a unique position to develop the adjacent corridor of the Hudson Yards.

"I think one of the advantages that we have over the other four competitors is we've actually spent a couple of years studying how to do exactly this, which is how to build a platform and a structure over an active railway in order to create the site," Mr. Clark said. "We've got a bit of a head start versus our peers in that regard."
[
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  #113  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2007, 11:07 PM
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^The guy brings up a good point in the last paragraph. I, for one, cannot really imagine how they could pull off such construction without causing major distruptions by the railways, which must be kept as delay- and hassle-free as possible, as to not to turn off commuters from using railroads. It comes around full circle - delays by the tracks may turn away many people from using railroad lines to commute, lessening the viability and construction chances of the new Penn Station, without which the area would be less active and prestigious, resulting in lower popularity and lease prices for the very project that is creating the delays.
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  #114  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2007, 11:37 PM
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It comes around full circle - delays by the tracks may turn away many people from using railroad lines to commute, lessening the viability and construction chances of the new Penn Station
I don't think there's anything to worry about there. The constant increase in tolls and parking costs have the opposite effect. Even if the population of Penn Station were cut in half, it would be at capacity.
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  #115  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2007, 1:13 AM
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That's true too - Penn Station is overcrowded as it is.

This project is yet another reason for hurrying up with the new station - I don't think bringing thousands of new jobs a block away from the station will alleviate the station's congestion.
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  #116  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2007, 1:21 PM
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That's true too - Penn Station is overcrowded as it is.

This project is yet another reason for hurrying up with the new station - I don't think bringing thousands of new jobs a block away from the station will alleviate the station's congestion.
It won't. But there's also the ARC project (that we don't discuss often) that will double capacity for trains crossing the Hudson. Then there is the "swap", new service to Penn for Metro North trains and new service at Grand Central for LIRR passengers. It's all coming together now. And if this "congestion pricing" plan ever goes into effect, expect even more people on the rails.
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  #117  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2008, 10:55 AM
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No plans yet, but they're already coming out against this one...
http://chelseanow.com/cn_69/hudsonyardsstill.html

Monumental and intimidating

In its letter to MTA, HYCAC starts by pointing out that “the scale of the buildings is overwhelming.” While the MTA, hoping to promote extensive amounts of residential and commercial development, allowed in its RFP buildings with a floor area ratio (FAR) of as much as 11, the results from the developers’ proposals were far denser than that number suggests. “Excluding open space and streets, [the same way] as parks and streets are excluded elsewhere in the city,” the letter points out, “the effective density of these proposals is in the neighborhood of 25 FAR.”

Unprecedented anywhere in New York City, such density “far exceeds what can be considered good planning for the future of the city or the local community,” the committee said. “An environment dominated by monumental and intimidating buildings,” such as Durst’s 80-story home for Conde Nast or Brookfield’s proposed 100-story tower on Eighth Avenue, is seen by HYCAC as incompatible with a livable city.
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  #118  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2008, 11:52 AM
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“the scale of the buildings is overwhelming.”
Oooh my! Big buildings on Manhattan Island. How can they do this!?!? It will ruin EVERYTHING! I'm drowning in fear. This all simply seems like a load of:


Calling the larger skyscrapers "Incompatible with a livable city" is obviously a huge load of 'you know what.'

Perhaps one mega-building with everything inside it, including it's own internal infrastructure, something self-sustaining, like Sky City, would have been a great option; something like that may not even require a platform to be built over the rails to support a massive cluster since there would only be one massive structure with, say, a dozen superx100-mega-columns levitating the whole thing "x" feet above the island. But this is a fact: no matter what happens, people will whine and make up any piffle they can to try to hurt what they don't like.

Last edited by Ebola; Jan 24, 2008 at 12:21 PM.
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  #119  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2008, 5:44 PM
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I am so furious that these people are blinded to the fact that this city is the the largest commercial hub in the World.

If these developers are smart, then they will comply with the demands of these clowns, win the approval, and once they have the land in their trust, redesign the complex as a so called "Hong Kong on the Hudson". So much wasted potential for this site is by day becoming a reality even before the equipment is on the property.

Obvious as it is, 'Mr. Smith' is not commuting into Manhattan on a daily basis to play tag with his clients in suits on some open grass area. Things need to be put into perspective, and after reviewing all these designs, I ask myself; What more do these people need to be happy? The answer is their desires do not comply with the needs of the blue chip corporations that are choosing Manhattan for their office locations as oppose to another city. At the end of the day it is corporations such as the Merrills and the JP Morgans that keep the economy of this city thriving, not blades of grass and some echo friendly park benches.
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  #120  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2008, 6:33 PM
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At the end of the day it is corporations such as the Merrills and the JP Morgans that keep the economy of this city thriving, not blades of grass and some echo friendly park benches.
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebola
Oooh my! Big buildings on Manhattan Island. How can they do this!?!? It will ruin EVERYTHING!
Makes you wonder why those morons are even in Manhattan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChelseaNow
"An environment dominated by monumental and intimidating buildings,” such as Durst’s 80-story home for Conde Nast or Brookfield’s proposed 100-story tower on Eighth Avenue, is seen by HYCAC as incompatible with a livable city.
Gee, you have to wonder how New York, a city bursting at the seams, ever made it so far...
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