The Retail Thread

[Ferreth]

Originally Posted by mersar

I believe thats already allowed in some cases (Cochrane's Safeway store and the Safeway liquor store are side by side, separate doors, and the even more hilarious restriction of they can't even share a common dumpster in the back alley). It may be a city bylaw that prevents it in the city.

Safeway's doing liquor stores? How do they compare to the Stupid Store/ Coop ones?

[artvandelay]

Originally Posted by Rusty van Reddick

I actually wish to God we had Ontario's system.

Ontario's system is great if you're Mormon.
I just got back from a week in Toronto, and I'd be surprised if there are more than ten liquor stores in the entire downtown area - I thought that B.C. was bad. At the LCBO we went to, the only cold beer to choose from was overpriced import - the majority of beer was stacked in flats on the floor. We were then directed to a store three blocks away that only sells beer for some reason and there was a 10 minute line up for some guy to go to the back and get your beer. It was ridiculous!
The selection at LCBO was noticeably lower compared to the stores here, especially the better ones like Willow Park and Co-op.

Originally Posted by fusili

All this just goes to show that 300m proximity rules really don't make sense in a high density area. 300m separation in a suburban area is pretty close and probably will saturate the market, in the Beltline it is totally viable.

I'm guessing the 300m thing is a city bylaw? In Langdon there is a strip mall with two liquor stores at each end probably 150 ft apart. Granted it is Langdon, so there's not much to do other than drink.

[mersar]

Originally Posted by Ferreth

Safeway's doing liquor stores? How do they compare to the Stupid Store/ Coop ones?

Decent, I don't drink myself so I never go into them but from what I've heard they'd rank above Superstore but below Co-op (which are some of the best stores in terms of selection). They've had Safeway Liquor stores for years, the one at Crowfoot has been there probably close to a decade now I'd bet (Co-op's new liquor store at Crowfoot is coming along as well, I'd guess maybe before Christmas for opening).

[Me&You]

Originally Posted by mersar

Decent, I don't drink myself so I never go into them but from what I've heard they'd rank above Superstore but below Co-op (which are some of the best stores in terms of selection). They've had Safeway Liquor stores for years, the one at Crowfoot has been there probably close to a decade now I'd bet (Co-op's new liquor store at Crowfoot is coming along as well, I'd guess maybe before Christmas for opening).

The Safeway liquor store closest to me in Marda Loop has a pretty poor selection and the prices are terrible compared to most dedicated liquor stores in the area - and there are tons.

To top it off, the liquor store is located across the parking lot which really eliminates a lot of the supposed convenience.

I agree though, the Co-Op stores are great. Superstore generally has the best prices of the three.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

I always thought H&M was like... the Gap as far as being somewhat ubiquitous, but more Le Chateau'y in style, ie more stylish.

This is why I say it's probably that I'd just old and hate anything new. H&M seems to appeal to, and sell, the trashiest possible stuff. Like what someone who grew up in a trailer park would buy once they got their first "real" job and wanted to go bar-hopping. The men's clothes just scream "douchebag" to me, much like the "graphic/graffiti T" fad of recent years.

I'm really making an attempt to have my younger friends keep me hip, but it's harder every year.

[Jay in Cowtown]

Originally Posted by Ramsayfarian

Let freedom reign.

Yup! In fact I generally won't buy booze in the grocery chain stores... there's no neon Bud Light signs in the windows, unfreedom-esk bastards!

Originally Posted by fusili

NEVER! If that happened, drunk children would roam the streets at night and be attacked by zombies!

For the most part... but there is a loop hole to that, if the nearest liquor store is X amount of miles away, you can sell booze in your store. ie: Exshaw Gas Station.

[jeffwhit]

While I agree that Ontario's system does suck, I empathize with what Rusty is actually getting at, which is there is no need to have 6 liquor stores in a four block radius. Besides, all the ones opening around the 14th/17th intersection aren't anything better than what Ontario has anyway.

[freeweed]

Ontario's alcohol laws are positively puritanical. Can't sell beer in the same store as wine? Or spirits? What the fuck is this, 1860 Utah? No late night sales? Is church not open that late? Can't actually browse the beer and handle it yourself? Am I not an adult capable of picking up a case of bottles myself?

Shit, I remember not being able to buy alcohol on Sundays as recently as a few years ago in this country. So not only do you have to go to a special store, you can't buy multiple kinds of alcohol at once, and you can effectively only buy it during banker's hours.

Alberta is HEAVEN in this respect. In fact, I actually drink LESS out here because I never ever have to worry about the "stocking up" phenomenon. People buy and drink more alcohol than they would otherwise, if they want to have it on hand "just in case".

That being said, I think furry's original point may be more towards not having 18 booze outlets in a 3 block radius. And all tiny seedy shops that don't follow any sort of regulation or control. I wouldn't have a problem with just ONE large store in any given strip/big box mall, personally. I've seen as many as 4, and I bet there are worse examples.

I still wonder what Quebec's alcohol problem rate is. They sell it damn near everywhere. Including the much-feared-by-puritans single beer.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Including the much-feared-by-puritans single beer.

Mmm, nothing like buying 6 single craft import beers from Zyn in Inglewood.

[devonb]

Originally Posted by freeweed

This is why I say it's probably that I'd just old and hate anything new. H&M seems to appeal to, and sell, the trashiest possible stuff. Like what someone who grew up in a trailer park would buy once they got their first "real" job and wanted to go bar-hopping. The men's clothes just scream "douchebag" to me, much like the "graphic/graffiti T" fad of recent years.

I think there is less "trailer" there and more "Jersey Shore".

[devonb]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Alberta is HEAVEN in this respect.

I brought back 6 bottles of wine from my recent trip to Napa. Coming to Alberta was awesome: $3 a bottle duty plus GST. Compare that to BC: 85% of the value of the wine on duty plus HST. Ontario isn't quite that bad for importing wine, but close. I recognize that they are trying to protect the wine industry, but it seems overkill.

The selection and prices and Alberta are a dream compared to most provinces. I get asked to pick up booze regularly when I go back to Vancouver. Scotches are significantly cheaper here than BC ($60 instead of $80) and most wines are a few dollars cheaper.

[Ferreth]

Originally Posted by jeffwhit

While I agree that Ontario's system does suck, I empathize with what Rusty is actually getting at, which is there is no need to have 6 liquor stores in a four block radius. Besides, all the ones opening around the 14th/17th intersection aren't anything better than what Ontario has anyway.

The problem now is that of those 6 stores, you have 5 providing the same stuff and one that is a little more upscale (in general, I don't know what that particular local is like).

Registries was another good one - not quite as much of a service improvement as liquor, but still way better convenience and service than with the, what? 3 locations Calgary had prior to privatization.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by freeweed

This is why I say it's probably that I'd just old and hate anything new. H&M seems to appeal to, and sell, the trashiest possible stuff. Like what someone who grew up in a trailer park would buy once they got their first "real" job and wanted to go bar-hopping. The men's clothes just scream "douchebag" to me, much like the "graphic/graffiti T" fad of recent years.

I'm really making an attempt to have my younger friends keep me hip, but it's harder every year.

thats their audience fashionistas and hipsters

they don't really have basics its all about trends not about fashion

i've only ever better accessories there

[SubwayRev]

Originally Posted by artvandelay

Ontario's system is great if you're Mormon.

Ha!

Originally Posted by freeweed

Ontario's alcohol laws are positively puritanical. Can't sell beer in the same store as wine? Or spirits? What the fuck is this, 1860 Utah? No late night sales? Is church not open that late? Can't actually browse the beer and handle it yourself? Am I not an adult capable of picking up a case of bottles myself?

It's unbelievable buying booze in Ontario. I usually leave the store absolutely dumbfounded. (Both stores if I'm buying beer and liquor)


I remember reading once that the LCBO carries around 6,000 SKU's throughout it's system. Contrast that with Willow Park's which has over 25,000 SKU's available at its south store alone.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by devonb

I brought back 6 bottles of wine from my recent trip to Napa. Coming to Alberta was awesome: $3 a bottle duty plus GST. Compare that to BC: 85% of the value of the wine on duty plus HST. Ontario isn't quite that bad for importing wine, but close. I recognize that they are trying to protect the wine industry, but it seems overkill.

Wow. I don't often pay duty as I tend to visit the US long enough and i don't bring back cases of booze. I never realized there were provincial differences. It makes sense, I guess, but I always thought it was just a federal thing you were dealing with.

No wonder our border crossings are so needlessly messed up (in both directions). Bring on the Eurozone, please! 90% of our shit in stores comes from China and has destroyed our local manufacturing anyway, why exactly do we punish the little guy when big corps are getting away with much worse?

[Riise]

Originally Posted by freeweed

This is why I say it's probably that I'd just old and hate anything new. H&M seems to appeal to, and sell, the trashiest possible stuff. Like what someone who grew up in a trailer park would buy once they got their first "real" job and wanted to go bar-hopping. The men's clothes just scream "douchebag" to me, much like the "graphic/graffiti T" fad of recent years.

H&M specializes in fast fashion:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Fast fashion is a contemporary term used by fashion retailers to acknowledge that designs move from catwalk to store in the fastest time to capture current trends in the market. This has developed from a product driven concept based on a manufacturing model referred to as 'Quick Response' developed in the US in the 1980s and moved to a market based model of 'Fast Fashion' in the late 1990s and first part of the 21st century.

Zara have been at the forefront of this fashion retail revolution and their brand has almost become synonomous with the term but there were other retailers who worked with the concept before the label was applied such as Benetton. Fast fashion has also become associated with disposable fashion because it has delivered designer product to a mass market at relatively low prices.

Fast fashion is a term used to describe clothing collections which are based on the most recent fashion trends presented at Fashion Week in both the spring and the autumn of every year. These trends are designed and manufactured quickly and cheaply to allow the mainstream consumer to take advantage of current clothing styles at a lower price.

This philosophy of quick manufacturing at an affordable price is used in large retailers such as H&M, Zara, and Topshop. It particularly came to the fore during the vogue for "boho chic" in the middle of the first decade of the 21st century.


Source: Wikipedia

If you have a strong fashion sense but are on a budget H&M can be very helpful. It can give you a cheap start on you wardrobe and provide the basics/essentials.

[Innersoul1]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

thats their audience fashionistas and hipsters

they don't really have basics its all about trends not about fashion

i've only ever better accessories there

It's good for preggos too. They actually have a selection of stylish maternity wear that beats the crap they sell at Thyme Maternity. Plus it's cheaper than what you would find at top end stores like Ella Bella.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by freeweed

That being said, I think furry's original point may be more towards not having 18 booze outlets in a 3 block radius. And all tiny seedy shops that don't follow any sort of regulation or control. I wouldn't have a problem with just ONE large store in any given strip/big box mall, personally. I've seen as many as 4, and I bet there are worse examples.

Regarding Rusty's (and Freeweeds) comments on liquor density (heah, I thought we're all for urban density ) - since this is all private initiative, I say let the market decide. As long as the rules are being upheld, who really cares how many liquour stores there are in any one area??

Where I live (Tuxedo) I have 5 liquor stores within a 10 minute walk - Nicastros, Lee's, Kings, Olympia and CSN - each with a different value to me.

Nic's has a great loyalty program and sends me emails when products I have bought before come on sale (), CSN has one of the best high end wine selections anywhere + great tasting classes, Lee's is open real late (albeit small selection and crappy prices), King's is 1 minute from my door (again, small selection and mediocre prices, but I have ran there for something while in the middle of cooking) and Olympia has the best prices in town. I certainly wouldn't trade this for LCBO's system!!

BTW, I think Olympia has decent selection and out of this world prices - is anyone aware of any place that may be cheaper?? (Yes it beats Stupid Store)

Originally Posted by Ramsayfarian

I'm old enough to remember not being able to drink in a lounge unless you ordered food or going to Earl's and having to order an appi with every third round.

As late as 1985, to buy alcohol in Ontario (big cities too like Ottawa and Toronto) you had to write your request/purchase down on paper! Basically you entered the LCBO store, looked at the booze selection you were interested as it was housed behind a metal cage (they would have one bottle or each type available - so a brand of rum would have 1 bottle on display for each volume size), then write down how many of each type you wanted on a gov't form - including the SKU - and go to the counter and hope that the person behind it felt you warranted buying that much alcohol. For those Westerners who never experienced this - think of the Consumers Distributors modal - but for booze! (Assuming you are old enough to remember CD!)

Originally Posted by freeweed

I still wonder what Quebec's alcohol problem rate is. They sell it damn near everywhere. Including the much-feared-by-puritans single beer.

Yes and no my friend. While the Depanneaurs do sell some wine and beer everywhere - the good stuff must be bought at the SAQ - and they are less prevalent. This past year I have spent alot of time in DT Montreal and know just about every SAQ location. Think of it Montreal, Canada's answer to hedonism and here are the only true liqour stores in the DT core:

[shreddog]

One further note on the booze thing, I was bored on one trip out East and had a sales flyer from Co-op with me that had the liqour prices listed. Went to the SAQ, and a week later to an LCBO, and compared prices. Beer was almost a wash (some more pricey here, some less, but never by much) but the hard stuff and wine was ALWAYS cheaper here - particularly Vodka.

A 26er of Grey Goose was over $12 cheaper here than in Ontario ($8 cheaper than QC) and 26 of Absolut was almost $17 more expensive in Ontario!

Sorry, but I'd rather have a red ant enema than trade Alberta'a liqour situation that of Ontario!

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by SubwayRev

I remember reading once that the LCBO carries around 6,000 SKU's throughout it's system. Contrast that with Willow Park's which has over 25,000 SKU's available at its south store alone.

Hmm, that may have been just at one store as I believe LCBO carries over 30000 SKUs. The big problem with LCBO is that it is one of the largest (maybe even the largest??) single buyer of booze in the world. As such, it can't deal with small suppliers efficiently - that is why the selection at places like Willow Park (and some places in Vancouver) for small run wines exceeds that at even the best Vintage locations in Toronto. I have been to both Bayview and Summerhill (both touted by LCBO as being the largest liqour store in Canada ) and not been able to find a decent Malbec that even Co-op will sell! (Side note, but I have been told by the owners of WP that Alberta is the largest Malbec market outside of S.A.!)

The real ironic thing about LCBO is that if it is indeed the largest booze buyer in the world (the Walmart of liqour!) shouldn't the prices be cheap?!?!? Of course, since it is part of the gov't, it officially states that prices are kept high to "ensure it meets it social responsibility wrt drinking"!!! No sir, it has nothing to do with gov't revenue, no sir at all!