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  #1  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2008, 6:04 AM
volvokenny volvokenny is offline
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Vancouver Transit Violation Tickets

I must say this has been a bad day for me because I had recieved a ticket from a transit policy on a sky train this afternoon. Is this bad luck or what Let me first by saying that I always pay my bus fare to and from work. This late evening my ticket has expired for 20 minutes which I wasn't aware of until a transit police did an inspection. Well in deed my ticket did expired for 20 minutes but the officer insist to give me a ticket. I was angry So I told him I didn't have Identification but I did give him my real name and date of birth but I didn't give him my current address. If they did do a search with my name and date of birth they will find my driver lic to be out of province from Alberta (I did not change my driver lic to BC because I don't drive anymore). Having this said, now I won't be getting any notification of this fine to my current address what worries do I have? I know I won't pay for this ticket only because I can't justify that my bus ticket expired. On the other hand I would be more than happy to pay for this violation if I did in fact not pay at all and trying to get a free ride. At this point I don't even know the seriousness of these transit violations. If someone who has expertise on this please reply. Thanks for you help
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  #2  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2008, 6:11 AM
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Just ignore it! They won't do anything about it, trust me!
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  #3  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2008, 6:16 AM
deasine deasine is offline
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Well wait u were on the SkyTrain? As long as u entered the system before your time has expired... ur pretty safe because u can negotiate with them and I've done that before (but not with transit police, it was a skytrain attendant).

Basically, you can ignore the ticket though... (I wouldn't suggest that) but if u are wanting to do the legal way, there should be instructions on the back of the violation ticket explaining you about the court procedure and you can apologize and beg the judge.

Besides, you had a ticket with you meaning that you wanted to pay to ride transit... or the intention of paying the fare. This is clearly an accident.

Good luck and tell us what happens.

PS: You joined the right forum! *winks* Welcome!

Last edited by deasine; Jul 24, 2008 at 8:34 PM.
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  #4  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2008, 7:24 AM
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Definitely unfair.....shouldn't it be alright if the ticket hasn't expired when you get on? That's certainly the case with bus drivers.

Not to mention that 90-minutes, particularly for a 3-zone commute, is not enough and people often need to transfer.
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  #5  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2008, 7:34 AM
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dishonour due to non-acceptance or fight it in court... or you could just not pay
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  #6  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2008, 7:48 AM
cornholio cornholio is offline
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I hope you kept your bus ticket because you should dispute this because the dick illegally gave you a ticket. The ticket is good as long as you boarded before it expired, the guy never should of gave you a ticket. Infact this is written on the translink website, somewhere, ill try to find a link. You should of toled the guy to foff and that you boarded before the ticket expired.
Dispute it and you will win, otherwise you wont be able to ever get a driver's license renewal until you pay.
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  #7  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2008, 4:41 PM
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Those that say don't pay it don't know what they are talking about. I worked collections for a couple of years for the province and I can ensure you that all translink tickets end up going to collections, so they will effect your credit if you avoid them. Also the Province is in the process of having them linked to your DL, meaning you would be unable to renew your DL or buy car insurance until you clear all outstanding fines.
while most people don't pay the fines it doesn't mean it's a good idea, most of the people that are issued fines are chronic offenders who have no future anyways.
If you beleive you were wronged they dispute the ticket and hope for the best, otherwise consider it a lesson learned and move on.
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  #8  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2008, 6:03 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Rationale for 90 minute tickets (and why 3-zone passes should be 120)

I agree with jlousa. I know it sucks. My sister got a ticket after using a concession card when she was in High school. She hadn't realized that you needed a "Go" card and had just moved into the Metro Vancouver area. They paid the ticket, but it was a tough lesson learned. From where to where were you travelling? It DOES make a difference where you were on the line and in which direction, as to whether you get a ticket or not. Also which zone the ticket was issued in and which zone you're in at that time.

Saying all that, they probably gave you a ticket because they figured you bought your ticket second-hand. Although 90 minutes isn't a long time, "most" direct trips that have skytrain as part of their journey can be accomplished in that time, and you were on SkyTrain I assume.

The only time I have trouble with it is if I make a stop somewhere or try to make a quick round-trip... then I'm pushing the limits of 90 minutes.

The reason you won't get a ticket (in general) on a bus, is because
  • Wait times for buses are up to 30 minutes at some stops (The drivers realize this)
  • Bus trips are "usually" short
  • The Bus Driver can offer lenience on a case by case basis
  • The Driver can asking how far you're going and even let you on if your ticket is expired!

If you START on the bus and go to SkyTrain, a transfer is not longer than 10 minutes. Given that the SkyTrain's maximum travel time is about 42 minutes, usually, you'll be fine. Unless you're travelling from Aldergrove to Downtown Vancouver, 90 minutes will generally get you where you want to go... or at least get you onto the final bus in that time.

In addition If you START on SkyTrain, the ticket is actually about 95 minutes, I believe... as a few minutes are added for wait time on the platform.

The LONGEST Bus/Train trip that I can think of is the 502 from Aldergrove, transferring to the Expo Line. The Bus trip alone is 71 minutes. The train trip is 34 minutes... which is a total of 110 minutes with a 5 minute transfer.

That would put you 20 minutes over just as you were arriving at Waterfront. However, that's also more than 60km for $2.50 (off-peak) or about 4 cents per kilometer.

I think perhaps 3-zone tickets should be extended to 120minutes... but for inexpensive off-peak travel and travel within 2-zones... 90 minutes should be adequate.

BTW, the absolute longest I can think of would be Aldergrove to Horseshoe bay ( 172 minutes (2:52) ) which is justifiably 2 trips, given that you're essentially travelling 5 zones. This would also be covered with a 120-minute 3-zone pass (to Lonsdale) and an additional 2-zone 90 minute pass to Horseshoe Bay.

It's much like a parking ticket... if you overstay a meter by 10 minutes, you won't get much sympathy from the officer... you'll still get the ticket. Not realizing that you ran out of time on the meter won't work in court.

Yes, it sucks to be on the receiving end, but in the end, as unfortunate as it is... the expiry time is still the expiry time.

Remember too... that when turnstiles are in place, I'd image you won't be able to get OUT of a station without upgrading (that's how it works in Japan anyhow).

Last edited by twoNeurons; Jul 24, 2008 at 6:33 PM. Reason: Clarity
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  #9  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2008, 7:34 PM
deasine deasine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tintinium View Post
Remember too... that when turnstiles are in place, I'd image you won't be able to get OUT of a station without upgrading (that's how it works in Japan anyhow).
This is yet another reason why I support turnstiles. No confusion, nice and simple.

I still think as long as you entered any fare paid zone before the expiry of your ticket, it should be fine. A bus is a fare paid zone vehicle: if your ticket is even minutes from expiring, you are still allowed to get on. SkyTrain and bus are "fare paid zones" so they should have the same rules.

If SkyTrain doesn't have the same rules, then it should be TransLink's responsbility in informing the passengers.
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  #10  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2008, 7:47 PM
en2 en2 is offline
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Just ignore the ticket.

If you take the SkyTrain enough times, you'll realize that they give tickets to the people who are most *unlikely* to abuse the system, while the ones that usually do get away because they usually check during rush-hour.
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  #11  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2008, 9:58 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Quote:
If you take the SkyTrain enough times, you'll realize that they give tickets to the people who are most *unlikely* to abuse the system, while the ones that usually do get away because they usually check during rush-hour.
The ones that are *most* likely to evade fare the the dishonest ones. They're the ones that will jump turnstiles anyhow. After all locks only stop honest thieves.

It actually does more good as a deterrent to ticket the ones that are *unlikely* to abuse the system as they're the ones that will respond the best to the fine.

You want to stop rampant abuse of the system, not stop every fare evader.

You want honest people to "stop and think" that they might be caught. Dishonest people don't care if they get caught. Don't know if this makes any sense to you, but it makes sense to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
A bus is a fare paid zone vehicle: if your ticket is even minutes from expiring, you are still allowed to get on. SkyTrain and bus are "fare paid zones" so they should have the same rules.

If SkyTrain doesn't have the same rules, then it should be TransLink's responsbility in informing the passengers.
The rules are the same. If you're caught on the bus with an expired transfer, you're expected to get off. Of course few would... and due to the fact that you have less control over how fast a bus goes (traffic, delays, late busses) you will generally get more leeway. This is likely because busses don't "generally" have transit police and have more unpredictable travel times.

The fact that busses are NOW fare-paid vehicles actually bring the rules MORE in line with Skytrain. Before, you weren't required to keep your transfer with you on the bus. Now that the busses are officially fare-paid zones, you must keep it with you.
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  #12  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2008, 12:24 AM
cc85 cc85 is offline
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you gotta enter and exit the system before time runs out to be in the black.
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  #13  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2008, 4:22 AM
volvokenny volvokenny is offline
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Vancouver Transit Violatiion Tickets

Thank you everyone with your feedback I am glad to have found this site to post my conerns/comments in regards to this topic. I hope this forum will and continue to educate others but not to promote that its okay to violate our Transit system. To further elaborate with my situation my ticket expired while on the sky train is because I got off the bus and stopped at Walmart for about 30 minutes and I waited for the next bus but that bus didn't stop because it was full. I got on the following bus to a sky train. The time involved must of took more than an hour but I had only acknowledge my ticket was still valid when I was able to get on the bus and it was when I got off the skytrain near the esculator where I was ticketed. The skytrain was really busy and I really think I was ticketed just to set an example For those who lives in the Metro Vancouver area my bus route is: from Cambie in Richmond(22nd st station bus) and my destination is Patterson station. I think my ticket is odd because the Transit policy didn't verify if my name and date of birth I gave was really me. I am only assuming that this is probably important. However I am going to pay this fine because it would cost me about the same amount if I take the day off to dispute this ticket and certainly going to collection is more troublesome. But if I was to challenge this fine I am confident I can beat this ticket for two reasons. I think my circumstance did justify why I don't deserve this fine or I can lie and say this ticket does not belong to me (because I was not ID by the officer and they would have to prove it was me). It was ironic this evening I came across the same Police officer at the same skytrain station but this evening the station was empty. I said Hello and he remember me and replied "I hope you have a valid ticket this evening!" then walked away. Go figure
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  #14  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2008, 4:27 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Quote:
"I hope you have a valid ticket this evening!" then walked away.
That's Classic! I agree that you probably have a case, given that the bus was full and didn't stop, but having stopping at Wal-Mart would weaken your case at court, as it could be considered two trips.

If you told that officer that a full bus passed you, I'm surprised he ticketed you, but maybe it was just a bad day for him.

Last edited by twoNeurons; Jul 25, 2008 at 4:39 PM.
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  #15  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2008, 4:50 AM
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heh this is messed up. in fact, i would seriously fight the ticket. i think with a ticket that had been expired for 20 minutes? i mean seriously, you were on the train, its not like your ticket beeps at you and says "get off, pay a new fare" when it expires. common sense would kick in and they should have given you a warning.

as for not changing your ID over, i don't blame you. since i've only ever paid for a one zone ticket as i travel from North Vancouver to Burnaby, having my Alberta DL has gotten me out of that fare zone thing so many times in the last year, i doubt i'll change it over, either that or keep the card on me when i goto change my license over (i don't drive either, so i can empathize with not changing it). transit officers are nice to the tourists i've noticed.

also, i've noticed that they hardly ever do a fare inspection. i've been checked 5 times in 13 months, and i ride the SkyTrain daily on both lines. 4 of the 5 times have been at the SeaBus heading to North Vancouver. compare that to Calgary where you can count on fare inspections almost daily. i'd say the last time i was there for a week, i had my ticket checked by officers 6 times in a 3 day stretch.
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  #16  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2008, 10:17 AM
cornholio cornholio is offline
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Like I said the ticket is valid so long as you board before it expires, they dont advertise it like that but it is their policy which has yet to be changed as far as I know. If I had time I would find their official policies which clearly state that, if dispute the ticket and show them then it will be tossed out.
Not many people know this, infact most people dont know this, infact it sounds like that Transit police eithe dont know this or ignore it because it would make their job much more difficult, infact I wouldent be suprised if Translink(with all its changes) doesnt even know what its official policy is anymore.

Im going to make it my goal to prove that im right this weekend.
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  #17  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2008, 4:54 PM
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another policy most don't know about.

if you have a bus pass and you're planning a trip on sunday, you can take a person who doesn't have a fare on with you as your passenger.
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  #18  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2008, 6:48 PM
deasine deasine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cornholio View Post
Like I said the ticket is valid so long as you board before it expires, they dont advertise it like that but it is their policy which has yet to be changed as far as I know. If I had time I would find their official policies which clearly state that, if dispute the ticket and show them then it will be tossed out.

Not many people know this, infact most people dont know this, infact it sounds like that Transit police eithe dont know this or ignore it because it would make their job much more difficult, infact I wouldent be suprised if Translink(with all its changes) doesnt even know what its official policy is anymore.

Im going to make it my goal to prove that im right this weekend.
That's what I thought and I've been able to fight it off because of that. I think the Transit Police is just over abusing their authority at times and chooses not to even ask the violators. For christ sake, if you have the fare that was valid 20 minutes ago, you made an intention to pay for your transit fare.
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  #19  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2008, 7:08 PM
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Can't believe how many misinformation is on here. Just because you have an opinion on what you think are the rules doesn't make them so. The fact is it doesn't matter if you entered the train with a valid ticket or not, they might be lenient on you and just ask you to buy a new ticket or even let you off the hook but you are still in violation of the rules. Here is the official policy

http://www.translink.bc.ca/Transport..._Paid_Zone.asp

All Transit Vehicles are
Fare Paid Zones

All customers must carry proof of payment (a valid ticket, pass or FareSaver) whenever they are aboard a transit vehicle or within any station area that is designated as a Fare Paid Zone.

Fare enforcement will be conducted by Transit Police officers and Transit Security members. Anyone who fails to produce proof of payment upon request will be asked to leave the vehicle and risks facing
a fine of $173.

It's black and white, a valid ticket at all times while in a fare paid zone.
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  #20  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2008, 8:18 PM
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I know it used to be valid so long as you boarded before the expiry time. It looks like that's been quietly changed. It now says on the back of the ticket:

EXPIRES AT TIME PRINTED (yes, bold and all-caps)
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