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  #361  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2006, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
I found the latest model of the Hilton Grand Vacations Club on the Las Vegas Strip. From the architects website, they say the whole project will be completed in 2011.
Good find Patrick.
I'm glad to see they are going to fix the symmetry of the towers by adding more height to tower 4. Tower 2 and 3 are mirrored and the same height, they just look off in that angled shot, plus the large space between them.
Now how tall is #4 going to be? YEA!!!!! TALLER!!!!
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  #362  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2006, 5:29 AM
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Cool Trump Las Vegas

Quote:
Originally Posted by vegasrain84
It works out to a little over 9 1/2 feet per floor. So I assume that the ceilings are about 8- 8 1/2 feet if you take at least a foot for ventilation systems and electrical.. I find the height of the building a little interesting myself.. Perhaps the Donald couldn't build any higher due to Airspace restrictions..
Not sure you can count the floors like that. The first residential floor is 16 and floors below that are commercial. Penthouse floors start at 60 and they have higher ceilings. Some floor numbers were skipped due to international customs.
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  #363  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2006, 6:06 AM
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Cool Maxim Site

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender13
Snuggled between Circus Circus and Sky, a Maxim magazine hotel and casino planned.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_ho...s/7793971.html
Will be interesting to see if this project goes forward. 1) The odd shape of the lot combined with the new County set back requirements makes the lot not very usable for a high rise 2) Two of the major players in this project have criminal backgrounds and am curious what the major lenders will say about that for construction financing.
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  #364  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2006, 7:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceH
Not sure you can count the floors like that. The first residential floor is 16 and floors below that are commercial. Penthouse floors start at 60 and they have higher ceilings. Some floor numbers were skipped due to international customs.
Lmich sent a e-mail message to the architects to find out the real height. The Agendas say its 645 feet high, the website says its 622 Feet High.

Speaking of Trump Las Vegas, I just did a Diagram of the Two Towers. Here is the Full Size version, and the normal version

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  #365  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2006, 3:21 PM
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arent they going with the balconies? - the montruex rendering showed balconies...
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  #366  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2006, 3:35 PM
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there's no balconies, by loking at the 3 or so floors already covered in glass, it's all glass.
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  #367  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2006, 3:54 PM
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Cool Trump Las Vegas - Balconies

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG
arent they going with the balconies? - the montruex rendering showed balconies...
The original drawings had balconies but they were later removed in part due to liability concerns. Can you imagine some bachelor party throwing furniture off the balcony onto the roof of the Fashion Show Mall?
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  #368  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2006, 7:05 PM
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^^^ all turnberry towers have balconies. i cant image NOT havin them. whats the point of buying a high rise condo if you cant enjoy being up so high. and i cant image a bachelor party goin on in the trump. people buying a high rise arent rowdy - i would think. and plus trump is behind the mall, no where near it. The summit/ ivana had balconies. exept the penhouses. if i remember correctly- being THAT high up would be scary to have a balcony. look at panorama. if you want to throw furnitue on the freeway you can.
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  #369  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2006, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG
arent they going with the balconies? - the montruex rendering showed balconies...
Ummm what balconies??
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  #370  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2006, 10:33 PM
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I heard there were bulldozers sighted on the world view towers site removing the old warehouses standing there. This great project may actually have a chance.

They still have to sell some units first, so maybe it's for a sales center. They can't just build a tower outright.
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  #371  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2006, 11:05 PM
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^^^ that is what i think.

grand chattaeu should break ground anyday now (so i hear).

i swear the white parts on the front of trump remind me of the balcony rendering.

my first impression of it was that they (or the litter front) are balconies.

is the world view site visible from the stratosphere cam? i dunno how to work that, nor where it is.
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  #372  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2006, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG
is the world view site visible from the stratosphere cam? i dunno how to work that, nor where it is.
The Stratosphere Camera is broken, It is stuck on that view, thats not the World View Site, Thats A construction site near Circus Circus. There used to be a Downtown Camera but it dissapeared.

I'm making a new banner for the front page, since Las Ramblas was cancelled. What projects would you guys like to see on the banner

current banner
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  #373  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2006, 11:24 PM
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A banner? You gotta have citycenter of course. Use one of the nice pictures from this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_City_Center

Cosmopolitan is pretty nice as well to round out the hotels.

For condo towers, world view tower and maybe Tommy Rocker Tower. (use the image on the website which looks straight up at it from street level)

Trump would be good too but I don't really like his golden look.


Might as well post some interesting construction related articles for today:

Brokers lose money and time after high-rise project plans vanish


Broker Beverly Lacey worked to sell luxury condos in Krystal Sands and Aqua Blue before the projects went bust. Trump International tower, seen here under construction, has a payment structure in place for brokers. Therefore, one broker calls the project the best in town.

Quote:
Beverly Lacey will show high-rise luxury condos to clients if that's what they want to see, but she feels obligated to warn them of the challenges and pitfalls exposed by Las Vegas projects that have fallen by the wayside.

Lacey, owner and broker of Vertical Vegas, said she was heavy into sales at Krystal Sands and Aqua Blue last year when developers canceled the projects. It cost her about $200,000 in commissions.
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"Sometimes a dose of reality is a good thing," she said. "You've got to roll with the punches. Yeah, I ate it for a couple hundred thousand in commissions, but you have to move forward."

Lacey is among a handful of brokers who worked long hours catering to clients and building relationships with developers only to be left hanging over defunct projects such as Krystal Sands, Aqua Blue, Hard Rock Hotel, Ivana Las Vegas, and Icon.

Several lawsuits alleging breach of purchase contract have been filed on behalf of buyers as a result of the Las Vegas high-rise fallout.

Most brokers will never see payment. High-rise failures in Las Vegas reverberated to Wall Street, where financial institutions have become more leery about making construction loans. The failures have also put a crimp in brokers' bank accounts.

"In this market, you look for things that are going to happen," said Todd Grotstein, director of high-rise division for Prudential Americana. "One of the things you look for is if the developer is willing to pay commission to the brokers. If you look at the ones that did not go, consistently most of the ones that did not move forward never paid a dime in commissions."

That's why Grotstein thinks Trump International tower behind the Frontier hotel on the Strip is one of the best projects in town.

Trump has a payment structure in place for the standard 3 percent broker commission, starting with 1 percent paid within 30 days of executing a sales contract and taking a reservation deposit. Brokers get another 1 percent a year later when buyers enter a "hard contract" with 10 percent nonrefundable deposit. The final installment will be paid at the close of escrow.

Trump has paid nearly $9 million in commissions to brokers so far, said Jack Christie, director of the sales at the 64-story, 1,282-unit tower that's taking shape on the Strip. He said 90 percent of sales have come from outside brokers such as At Home Realty, Ezra International and Prudential Americana.

"We started to hear about unrest, about brokers not being paid," Christie said. "We amended our broker agreement so that if a buyer cancels and forfeits their deposit, we do not charge back the broker for fees already paid. That was very well received. To be honest, we keep the 10 percent deposit, pay the brokers 2 percent, keep 8 percent and turn around and sell it again."

Bruce Hiatt, owner and broker of Luxury Realty Group in Las Vegas, said he only sells condos that pay advance commissions early in the process; commissions are nonrecourse, meaning they don't have to be paid back if the project fails; the time period from reservation to signed contract by the developer is less than four months; and the first advance fee is paid within two months of signing the contract.

"Very few can play in that game," Hiatt said. "This way we don't waste our time and we earn at least part of the commission if the project doesn't go forward. It's time the high-rise developers realize the game rules have changed and luxury high-rise brokers are onto the game of the land flippers."

Hiatt said he felt misled by developers who used his time and services to pump up the value of their land to flip it. Such situations caused agents to "lose face" with their buyers, many of whom became disenchanted with Las Vegas after their negative experiences.

Lacey managed to salvage a few clients from Krystal Sands after Florida developer Freddie Schinz sold the 3-acre site to Turnberry Associates and walked away with $46.5 million profit. She put them in the Hard Rock expansion instead.

Developers now have to convert 60 percent to 75 percent of reservations to hard contracts to get construction financing, Hiatt said. He won't help them achieve that goal if they don't pay advance commissions.

"The two I applaud in Las Vegas are Trump and Sky Las Vegas," Hiatt said. "You truly have to investigate these projects to see if they're real. Each project has a different reason for us to recommend a caution notice to our clients."

A number of top-producing brokers got stung when Related Las Vegas canceled Icon in January, said Paul Murad, developer of the proposed Gateway Las Vegas high-rise in downtown Las Vegas.

Some of the brokers had purchased units and were anticipating appreciation gains. Others had clients who bought at Icon and they were counting on commissions and making purchases based on future earnings, Murad said.

"Realtors were confident that their payday would arrive because companies like Related seldom cancel publicly announced projects," he said. "The buzz Icon created was heard from Miami to San Diego and even from South America and Europe."

Once Icon's cancellation occurred, the Las Vegas Realtor community discouraged clients from buying in another Related project, Las Ramblas on Harmon Avenue. In response, Related increased commissions to 4 percent -- a first in the local high-rise condominium market. Other developers have followed suit, some offering commissions of 5 percent or 6 percent, Murad said.


Las Ramblas, backed by actor George Clooney, also failed and the land was recently acquired by Las Vegas-based Edge Resorts for $202 million.
Meet the new kings of the Strip

Quote:
BY IAN MYLCHREEST
BUSINESS PRESS

Real estate developers are looking for a few good operators -- casino operators, that is. Just in case you hadn't noticed, the big push for Strip development, and even some of the stuff that's been happening downtown, has created a huge business opportunity.

More and more hotel companies and developers are looking to be landlords and not casino moguls. This is nothing new but regulators will have to rethink the current policy.

Now real estate is king on the Strip. And more and more, it is men with the souls of real estate developers who are taking over. Skeptical? Look at some recent developments ...
Ian Mylchreest

The MGM Mirage buyout of Mandalay Bay was a classic real estate play. In the old days, casinos competed with exotic entertainment, cool atmosphere, loose slots and cheap food. That made sense when every 400 yards a tourist walked on the Strip brought him or her to a new property. If you start at the Four Seasons, you have to walk a few miles now before you even get anywhere that isn't an MGM Mirage resort.

Just like you want to buy the yellow and the green and the blue properties on the Monopoly board, MGM wanted to make it very hard to go anywhere on the south end of the Strip without landing on one of the company's squares.

But MGM is still playing by the old rules; it still thinks that the casino is a revenue center. But lots of the new players do not.

Analysts have long been saying it's not just about the casino anymore. Room rates, entertainment, golf, swimming pools, food and just about everything else were originally used as incentives to get people to play in the casino. The casino was the only profit center.

Then casino companies figured out that they should be making all the other stuff pay as well. With the right branding and marketing, it's worked.

What is different about the new players is that they're happy to cash in on the real estate value of the Strip and cash in on the brand loyalty of hotel customers but leave the casino business to somebody else.

We hardly noticed a few years ago when J.W. Marriott declined to get into slots and cards and left Millennium Gaming to create the Rampart Casino at its Summerlin resort. Well, that was just a company policy.

But then came the Westin Casuarina. Again, a strong hotel brand wanted a piece of the Las Vegas action. So it bought the old Maxim and renovated that sad-looking hotel. Now it can offer its loyalty customers a location near the Strip with the ultra-comfortable beds for which it wants to be famous. And it brought in a casino operator to run its relatively small gaming operation.

Now that model is rapidly expanding. In the past 12 months, we've seen Barrick Gaming disappear from the scene. In its wake emerged Tamares, a Liechtenstein-based corporation whose interest in downtown was apparently a real estate play. It owned the land under the casinos Barrick operated.

When that company left the scene almost as mysteriously as it had arrived, Tamares emerged as the owner of the properties. It decided to get an operator for the casinos rather than go through the licensing process, which might have raised questions about its investments in what it euphemistically describes as "technology development" and "manufacturing." One of its products is a self-propelling howitzer. Its investments are private and it preferred to keep them that way, so it would not expose itself to the licensing process.

Morgans Hotel Group has also decided to bring in a casino operator for the recently acquired Hard Rock. Its business is upscale, boutique hotels and it's sticking to it. Meanwhile, it will outsource the casino.

Last week, we saw the latest development in the stretching of this loophole that allows owners to deploy licensed casino operators. Real estate developer, Concord Wilshire Partners, has teamed with the publisher of "Maxim" to brand a new hotel with the name of the magazine. It's famous for short articles, frat-boy humor and models that look like they've walked off a shoot for Victoria's Secret.

But it's not the brand that's the problem; it's the developer.

Concorde Wilshire Chairman and CEO Steve Sirang was convicted of wire and bank fraud in 1987. That kind of felony would kill any chances of a gaming license. So again the solution is to hire an operating company.

But what about the rest of the deal? Maxim is being paid millions of dollars in fees and operating revenue for the use of its brand. That's the free market. If Concord thinks it's worth it, let it pay it.

Now, however, convicted felons can get a major piece of a Strip casino as a real estate play and it's legal to install a licensed operator. But the outlines of this deal show how easily the Gaming Commission's licensing regime can be circumvented by "branding" and "leasing" agreements.

Operators are necessarily captives of the landlord. What is to stop a collusive agreement between the two that would effectively siphon off gaming money as unusually high rent payments? A branding agreement can easily be used to do the same.

There is not the least suggestion that anyone has done this or is even planning it.

The system was not, however, supposed to work like this. In the old days, a casino license was a license to print money and it still pretty much is. A number of companies have decided, however, that it's not worth the time and trouble to actually go through the licensing process and all they need do is find a willing operator.

Both the Gaming Commission and the next Legislature will have to deal with this unanticipated consequence of rising Strip real estate prices. They should do it soon before operating agreements become the means by which the unlicensable skim money from casinos.

Check out JMA Arch's new updated site.

A new project is called Harmon Plaza:
http://www.jmaarch.com/hospitality.htm

Last edited by Reverie; Jun 15, 2006 at 2:26 AM.
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  #374  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2006, 8:15 AM
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I made 4 different banners: tell me which one you guys think is the best, the one with the most votes will go on the front page

#1 The popular buildings, so far


#2 All evening renderings


#3 All Day Renderings


#4 All Night Renderings


What do you guys think? My Vote goes for #2 All evening renderings
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  #375  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2006, 11:38 AM
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All of them are great Patrick! I cast my vote for #2 as well.. I like those evening renderings!
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  #376  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2006, 3:37 PM
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i dont think ive seen that city center rendering you have for banner 1.

i like 1 and 4. club ren is annoying me. - i am lossing faith in it.


also: driving north on the 15 there or dozens of bulldozers, cement trucks, etc. along frank senatra dr. from the back of NY NY to Bellagion. then behind monte carlo are drilling cranes. a mess of cranes on city center, and drills drills and more drillls on cosmo. its a crazy mess there.

aladin is about a stroke away from being done painted. It is HORENDOUS! Its tacky- they kept the arabian windows, took down the jewls atop the tower, and left the brown paint in the middle (on top) so the aladdin is now blue at the bottom (it used to be brown) then the body is tan (it used to be dark tan) with blue vertical strips that used to be brown. It aint no planet holly wood.

the best renovation was down on the maxim. they completely took down the fascade and put up a BETTER one to turn it into the westin. even hooters looks like and after thought.

you
d think- to change the scope of bankrupcy, they'd want to get rid of all traces of the aladdin sceem and completly convert the builging into a better, more hip style.

Mission failed.

(my venting must stop - i just HATE the aladin now)
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  #377  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2006, 12:30 AM
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I really like the color and style of shots in #4, but I'm going to go with #2 because of the unique and curvy group of buildings. It shows Vegas' eclectic style of current and future buildings. There's no toothpaste box towers in our backyard.
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  #378  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2006, 12:54 AM
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#2 for me, even though I wanted citycenter in it, the curvy towers are nice.

News:

Klondike Hotel closes by end of month. It's becoming the Paramount condos.

Strip Booms Again

Quote:
The five-year, $20 billion building boom under way on the Strip will roughly double the high-end inventory of rooms costing $200 a night or more, a new Standard & Poor's study said.

This newfound focus on upscale visitors is largely a response to continuing demographic shifts, the report said.
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But it will leave Las Vegas vulnerable to the throes of the national economy and could prove challenging to absorb.

Projects that S&P said probably would be completed include:

• The $1.8 billion Palazzo with 3,025 rooms.

• The $1.7 billion Encore at Wynn Las Vegas with 2,054 rooms.

• The $7 billion Project CityCenter with 7,700 rooms.

• The $4 billion Echelon Place with 3,300 rooms.

Projects whose fates S&P called uncertain include:

• The $2 billion Cosmopolitan with 3,000 rooms. <- You're kiddin' me? It's under construction! </commentary

• The $1.5 billion Fontainebleau with 4,000 rooms.

• The canceled $3 billion Las Ramblas with 1,225 rooms.

• The $1.7 billion W Las Vegas with 3,000 rooms.

Las Ramblas was sold to Edge Resorts for $202 million earlier this month.

Together, those projects represent a 30 percent increase in room inventory, gaming space, convention space and retail space.

"A key factor (in deciding which proceed) will be the capital markets' willingness to fund many of these projects, particularly single-site developments pursued by less established gaming industry investors," according to the S&P report.

The expansion mainly will be in the high-end segment of the market, which at the end of 2005 accounted for about 15,000 of the 75,000 total rooms on the Strip.

If some of the more speculative projects fail to materialize, S&P said that would still mean an 80 percent increase in the Strip inventory charging $200 a night or more. If all materialize, a 150 percent increase in the upscale room inventory on the Strip would result.

"While the current positive operating momentum on the market will likely continue to increase demand for higher-end hotel rooms in the near term, the state of the (national) economy will be a major determining factor relative to absorption," S&P analyst Michael Scerbo said in the report.

He said the gradually changing characteristics of the average Las Vegas visitor are driving the transformation of the Strip into a ritzy resort destination. The report found the average Las Vegas visitor is wealthier, younger and spends more on each trip, both on gaming and amenities.

"This is evidenced by the higher-end properties on the Strip, such as Bellagio, Venetian and Mandalay Bay, that have consistently been some of the best performers in the market," Scerbo said.

Deutsche Bank analyst Andrew Zarnett said all such developments start with customer demand. The leisure and business markets are demanding more luxury capacity in Las Vegas and are willing to pay "that price point."

"The Venetian, Bellagio and Caesars' new tower all proved the point. There is sufficient demand for existing capacity and a lot more. And then Wynn Las Vegas showed the market is willing to pay still higher prices, around $300 a room," Zarnett said.

The S&P report found the biggest risks for the Strip developments involve the addition of residential components, several of which include condominiums. Operators are adding such components to meet demand from prospective, upscale visitors and to help finance the high-ticket developments, Scerbo said.

Simple hotel developments have to pay themselves off over years of renting out rooms one night at a time, while condominiums are paid for upfront, cutting the time for which developers have to leave their capital at risk.

S&P cited many risks for the developers, the Strip and Las Vegas.

"First, high-end residential development is dependent upon the real estate cycle, both for pre-selling and financing," the report said.

Second, construction costs continue to escalate in Las Vegas and could result in presale prices insufficient to cover development costs.

"Third, the lending environment for single-site development projects by new entrants on the Las Vegas Strip seems to be becoming less attractive due to higher interest rates and the uncertainty regarding consumer spending," the report said.

Zarnett said there is an appetite for residential development in Las Vegas among investors, but condominiums make the most sense financially when the buyers are also residents.

In either instance, however, he said rising interest rates probably will slow development, not stop it, and in the long run, that may cut the cost of construction, too.

"In other words, the market will work it out. There is some price point where more expensive room rates won't work," he said. "But market pressures will tip developments away from (the danger zone)."

David Schwartz, director of the Center for Gaming Research at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, said the market for upscale, adult leisure will keep pace with developments and the supply they generate.

Demand created by the new resorts will exceed the supply of high priced rooms they add to the market, as it has in the past, Schwartz said.

"Developers, promoters, and marketers have been supremely successful in establishing and continually updating the brand identity of Las Vegas as an adult playground (to keep building demand)," Schwartz said, and they probably will keep growing the market, barring any national calamity.
Trump Tower + Sky



For obvious reasons there are road portions I havn't driven on... ever. It's a big city after all. Desert Inn was one of them. In doing so I "discovered" this old high rise. It's probably at least decades old, and yet another one of those rare high rises in Vegas from that time that isn't a hotel casino. It seems to be an apartment tower. Not bad, I would love for a couple dozen of these mid rise residential types of varying designs to be scattered around town.


Last edited by Reverie; Jun 16, 2006 at 1:44 AM.
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  #379  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2006, 3:02 AM
ScottG ScottG is offline
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what part of town do you live? i go down DI all the time- the MARK 1 apartments (wheres mark 2?) have been for a while - but i think the polo club tower was the first high rise res. tower...the two are close by. bother behind the convention center.

BTW you know how Desert in is a 'special' street. It goes UNDER the convention center, then UNDER the strip, THEN over the freeway and roads.

I herd a while back the city was thinking of doin the same to saharah, makin it a super arielial as well. DI is the best street to get across town. Unless theres an accident on it- then its hell.

i dont get that report^^^^^ cosmo under construction. Fountain Blu (how the F is this spelled- this and Montreux) Fountain blu is under way with design. It takes a while. and what has failed under turnberry. Think for a moment.....nothin. Plus there are office and construction trailers on site workin away. now that the 4th tower is almost down - watch the rest of the property wil get turned over.

also the W is not weak, is buyin land to Expand!


Weird article.
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  #380  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2006, 3:44 AM
Reverie
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I live in Silverado Ranch.

I guess the Mark I was pretty low key that's why I never saw it. I knew about that big (and really ugly) condo tower overlooking the Hilton Golf Course.



WELL, I'm trying to not have all my buildings look like boxes and actually put some effort into a model of Club Ren.

I took me an hour to make just this craptastic model of it. (The other side is actually very scary so I'm lucky this side looks ok)



Of course I was going to try and make some custom buildings, I wonder what are the odds of seeing some tall buildings like thse on that empty Sahara plot.

The tall black tower is 1200' even to roof, with a 250' antenna. It's supposed to be bluish but google earth somehow makes it black

Poor Allure, so short now...


Last edited by Reverie; Jun 16, 2006 at 5:03 AM.
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