CHICAGO | General Developments

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

But I sometimes wonder what is really gained by forcing CVS to build to the sidewalk (as at Roosevelt/Racine) when they immediately back their display cases up to the windows.

At minimum it improves the coherence, continuity, and "framing" effect of the commercial streetwall, which improves the aesthetic experience of being on the street shopping. Tough to quantify this effect, of course.

That said, it's pretty damn pointless when they just put the entrance in back anyway, like that criminal new Aldi's in Uptown.

[VivaLFuego]

dp

[Breezyfingers]

Someone a few pages back asked about Couch Place. They were testing a smoke machine out in the alley last week:


Some pictures of Roosevelt Collection from today also seem somewhat relevant:

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

No, I think they'd play by whatever rules the city sets. But there probably would be a new drive-thru Walgreen's on the west side of Western every mile. I also think it would present a problem for retail leasing in neighborhoods (like Bronzeville or Tri-Taylor or Roosevelt Square) that are still struggling to become sought-after.

Walgreen's wanted to go at Roosevelt/Wabash, but demanded to tear down the Union Bus Depot (which ironically had a Walgreen's in it originally) because they had to have a drive-thru. So they went over to Soo Line Marketplace instead. And then, ten years later, came back and took a space in State Place (that includes a drive-thru).

^ State Place's Walgreens has a drive thru? Wow, I never knew that (and I have seen it in person).

I agree that such a strategy wouldn't work in up and coming neighborhoods. But that's why my hypothetical situation applied more to Chicago's more established ones.

I think Chicago has a lot of leverage against chain stores in these areas and should exercise it. Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Bucktown, etc etc are going to be just fine whether CVS or Walgreens come to town or not.

[the urban politician]

^ Thanks for the pics. Are those one story portions (back right part of the pic above) going to stay as such, or is there a residential portion planned above them?

[ardecila]

That section will get taller, but it won't be residential units. The renderings show 2 or 3 windowless floors above the one that's already poured. So I think the Kerasotes Theaters will be on floors 2 and 3, on either side of the cul-de-sac. Their space on the west side has already been framed out with steel, but not yet on the east side.

Roosevelt Collection is turning out a lot better than I thought it would be, especially since Centrum confirms that there will be retail down along Clark Street on the west side of the development. I don't think this retail will be very successful initially, at least until there's development on the other side of Clark, and Clark actually leads to something south of Roosevelt.

But when that happens, 5-10 years from now, there could actually be pedestrians walking down Clark on what used to be an unpaved gravel country road!

[Mr Downtown]

^Wells, not Clark.

[spyguy]

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-...rticleId=30250

Big plans for Pullman
By: Thomas A. Corfman July 14, 2008

Billionaire banker Michael Kelly is picking up where utopian visionary George Pullman left off.

...The 170-acre Ryerson site at 720 E. 111th St. abuts Park National's 10-story office building along the Bishop Ford Freeway and the landmark Pullman District, where many of the buildings from Mr. Pullman's quixotic experiment still stand.

Crain's has learned that Mr. Kelly envisions a development with up to 1,000 single-family homes in keeping with the adjacent Pullman District's architecture, as well as big-box stores. Development on such a scale hasn't been seen on the South Side since the postwar era, and the project could transform a largely dormant industrial area into a new neighborhood.

..."We are going to build a suburban community within the city," says Mr. Beale, whose ward includes the Ryerson site. "We're looking at curved (streets), a gated community, the attached three-car garage."

----
Ugh @ Ald. Beale's suburban "vision."

[honte]

You got it, "curved (streets), a gated community, the attached three-car garage" is exactly "in keeping" with Pullman. Can't this crap be made illegal? I'll take the dormant industrial park, thank you.

[firstcranialnerve]

^ F$%# NO, a gated community in the city.... I wonder how many machine gun turrets, mine fields and guard towers are in the plan. Any chance of a moat?

[neverdone]

What exactly is the land being considered here? The nearby stretch of the bishop ford expressway is beautiful.

[Alliance]

Originally Posted by spyguy

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-...rticleId=30250

Big plans for Pullman
By: Thomas A. Corfman July 14, 2008

Billionaire banker Michael Kelly is picking up where utopian visionary George Pullman left off.

...The 170-acre Ryerson site at 720 E. 111th St. abuts Park National's 10-story office building along the Bishop Ford Freeway and the landmark Pullman District, where many of the buildings from Mr. Pullman's quixotic experiment still stand.

Crain's has learned that Mr. Kelly envisions a development with up to 1,000 single-family homes in keeping with the adjacent Pullman District's architecture, as well as big-box stores. Development on such a scale hasn't been seen on the South Side since the postwar era, and the project could transform a largely dormant industrial area into a new neighborhood.

..."We are going to build a suburban community within the city," says Mr. Beale, whose ward includes the Ryerson site. "We're looking at curved (streets), a gated community, the attached three-car garage."

----

I call for a fatwa.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by spyguy

Crain's has learned that Mr. Kelly envisions a development with up to 1,000 single-family homes in keeping with the adjacent Pullman District's architecture, as well as big-box stores. Development on such a scale hasn't been seen on the South Side since the postwar era, and the project could transform a largely dormant industrial area into a new neighborhood.

..."We are going to build a suburban community within the city," says Mr. Beale, whose ward includes the Ryerson site. "We're looking at curved (streets), a gated community, the attached three-car garage."

Seriously?

The depressing part is the pride dripping from Beale. It's a shame these investment-deprived areas have to repeat the mistakes of 1955 en route to present day urban planning concepts.

Why, we can build new interchanges at 103rd and 111th. Big Box stores that never have a shortage of easy to find parking... right off the street! Separated land uses, so the clutter of retail doesn't spill over into our quiet family-friendly neighborhoods. No street parking after midnight, of course! Why, we'll even develop a hierarchical road network for maximum automobile efficiency. I swear, we can build a utopia, and make the crowded and dirty city hospitable to the modern family.

[schwerve]

if they want to build a suburban area in the city they should just look a couple miles west to beverly for a model. it keeps the single family homes with a backyard and garage without gating off a whole area and trying to engineer quality of life.

[Marcu]

^ Beverly has done pretty much all it can to keep the outsiders out, so I wouldn't really call it a good model to follow. If the residents there had the choice, they'd gate themselves off from Western Ave altogether.

I can't really blame the Pullman leadership for viewing the stale vision of suburbian utopia in such a positive light. While it's true that many of us have at this point realized that the burbs just flat out sucks in every way, for many of Pullman's residents, the suburbs still represent an escape from all their high crime impoverished urban area. In fact, many people that reside in high crime urban areas in Chicago still view ths suburbs in an almost utopia-like light. Those that escape usually find their way to suburban col-da-sac communities, not the higher rent areas of Chicago like Lincoln Park. Hence, the excited reaction from the Alderman. It's baffling to those that have witnesses the suburbs for all that they are not, but not to those that have not.

Is this proposal dissapointing? Yes. But it certainly doesn't surprise me. As the South Side slowly redevelops, we will surely see more of these kinds of suburban-esque proposal. After all, it's what the residents believe they want and what they think will solve the problems plauging their communities.

[schwerve]

Originally Posted by Marcu

^ Beverly has done pretty much all it can to keep the outsiders out, so I wouldn't really call it a good model to follow. If the residents there had the choice, they'd gate themselves off from Western Ave altogether.

there are certain elements in the neighborhood who certainly would agree with that statement (see culdesacs in northern beverly) but on a whole its not true, in fact beverly has a history of inclusion which it prides itself on. i'm biased as I grew up there, but the major reason it has maintained itself as a community for so long was its willingness to stand up to things such as the racism of white flight and welcome new members to the neighborhood.

[the urban politician]

Hey everyone, I'm not sure if you all read the article carefully.

The quote of the "suburban community" came from the Alderman, who also appears to have a different vision for the neighborhood than the developer. The developer talked about keeping in "character" with Pullman. So we have yet to see if a suburbanesque community with winding cul-de-sacs really gets built.

Of course, I don't see why anyone here cares. We're talking about 103rd street on the south side. It might as well be in friggin Indiana...

[schwerve]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Of course, I don't see why anyone here cares. We're talking about 103rd street on the south side. It might as well be in friggin Indiana...

i'd be willing to make an argument about how that attitude, is more detrimental to the development of chicago than a gated community, but as I've mentioned, I grew up on 100th street.

[the urban politician]

^ Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Chicago shouldn't care about that part of town. What I mean to say is that it would behoove the city to relax its urban design guidelines so far from the urban core, especially if it wants to attract development. This especially considering that the people most likely to live in this area are by far going to have a more suburban mindset than, say, the people buying condos in the West Loop. I view these places (far NW, SW, SE sides of the city) being like Chicago's Staten Islands--having much more in common with suburbia than the city's culture.

Now if such a project were planned for 45th street, for example, I would definitely have a different opinion (as would city planners, I'm assuming). But that is not the case here..

[schwerve]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Chicago shouldn't care about that part of town. What I mean to say is that it would behoove the city to relax its urban design guidelines so far from the urban core, especially if it wants to attract development. This especially considering that the people most likely to live in this area are by far going to have a more suburban mindset than, say, the people buying condos in the West Loop. I view these places (far NW, SW, SE sides of the city) being like Chicago's Staten Islands--having much more in common with suburbia than the city's culture.

Now if such a project were planned for 45th street, for example, I would definitely have a different opinion (as would city planners, I'm assuming). But that is not the case here..

fair enough, I can agree with that. a place on 103rd shouldn't be designed the same way as on 35th although one of the major problems with the south side is the lack of cohesion between the various neighborhoods. these areas shouldn't necessarily be "urban" but they still need to hold the connection to each other to maintain a coherent community.