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  #15361  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2012, 6:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 View Post
They had better fix those fire stand pipes in the first photo though. There is already rust staining happening to the brick below the stand pipes which is only going to get worse as the building ages.
I'm reserving some judgement that the FDC is actually rusting. It could be like that from a flush-out and just wasn't cleaned up.
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  #15362  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2012, 10:04 PM
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It seems a lot of the De Stijl/Mondrian beauty of the old window / color design has been lost with this proposal. Plus we lost a whole floor and the ceilings (judging by the total height to the fourth floor) have been lowered.
AFAIK the only major difference compositionally is that the banners are now taller and they're not painting the ceilings of the balconies. The changes could just be an issue with the SketchUp model. I wouldn't get too upset about this project just yet.
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  #15363  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
AFAIK the only major difference compositionally is that the banners are now taller and they're not painting the ceilings of the balconies. The changes could just be an issue with the SketchUp model. I wouldn't get too upset about this project just yet.
Looking back, that is the only difference. In the first of the original renders, it looks like they have a color panel above the balcony, but in the others it becomes clear that it is just the roof painted, which will have little to no impact on the actual appearance of the building. Overall, still one of the best lowrises I've seen in a long time.
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  #15364  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 12:17 AM
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I'm getting really tired of this 4 story height ceiling...
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  #15365  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 4:22 AM
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Holy Hell. 769 pages of misc Chicago projects.. 15,300+ posts, well past the 10,000 needed to start a new thread. Can anyone consolidate some photos of the largest and best projects on either page 1 or if not just all in one post here so people like me can check out any noteworthy buildings and developments without clicking 800 times looking for renders????

Thanks, if anyone can do that.
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  #15366  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 3:19 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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^^^ That's the problem, this thread is like a rolling blog of all projects in the the city. There are far too many to succintly list. There have been quite a bit of awesome projects listed in the past 10 pages or so that I would check out if I were you...
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  #15367  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 3:52 PM
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^ Your threesome of 6 flats on W Belmont just west of the river are pretty close to completed, as of yesterday.

Belmont Ave should be the poster child of how to build a modern urban thoroughfare in American cities. No master plan needed--just zone it properly and allow developers to build as-of-right.

I would love to see another street blossom this way
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  #15368  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 4:11 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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^^^ Well Diversey has many of the same elements except for the wasteland around Elston. Mainly I just want to see Diversey and Belmont "blossom" like that all the way to Pulaski. My favorite part about those streets is that they aren't just repairing damaged urban fabric as many infill projects are, but rather jacking up the density from older SFH or purely commercial storefronts. So they are creating brand new urban fabric. This kind of development gives me hope that one day they will run out of spaces on the North and NW side to develop and will begin to tackle the bombed out areas on the South and West sides and restore the city to it's 1920's glory.



PS: Demolition on the El Centro project has just about wrapped up with the exception of the removal of the floor slabs, looks like they were beginning to attack the old loading docks today.
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  #15369  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 5:03 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ Your threesome of 6 flats on W Belmont just west of the river are pretty close to completed, as of yesterday.

Belmont Ave should be the poster child of how to build a modern urban thoroughfare in American cities. No master plan needed--just zone it properly and allow developers to build as-of-right.

I would love to see another street blossom this way
Do you mean west of Western?
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  #15370  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 5:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 View Post
^^^ Well Diversey has many of the same elements except for the wasteland around Elston. Mainly I just want to see Diversey and Belmont "blossom" like that all the way to Pulaski. My favorite part about those streets is that they aren't just repairing damaged urban fabric as many infill projects are, but rather jacking up the density from older SFH or purely commercial storefronts. So they are creating brand new urban fabric. This kind of development gives me hope that one day they will run out of spaces on the North and NW side to develop and will begin to tackle the bombed out areas on the South and West sides and restore the city to it's 1920's glory.



PS: Demolition on the El Centro project has just about wrapped up with the exception of the removal of the floor slabs, looks like they were beginning to attack the old loading docks today.
Jeez you are awfully optimistic today. Is it the sun or did you get laid last night. j/k

I hope you are right re the south and west sides. JUst think that areas like the Garfields, the Englewoods and the lawndales all had density levels as high or higher than most of the north lakefront currently does back in the 1920's-1960 period. And there was income density to boot.....more important that simple pop. density.

I cry when I think of how 63rd street used to be or madison near crawford (pulaski)......the horror; the horror.

I don't share your optimism but hope I am wrong
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  #15371  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 5:47 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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^^^ Man have I been that moody lately? Everyone keeps commenting on my varying attitude! Lol.

As far as the southside goes, it will happen someday, but the question is how soon. If we see an ongoing shift in society back to denser, more urban, lifestyles and a systematic collapse of oil supplies, it could be sooner rather than later. If not we might be waiting 50 years before we see any widespread development there.

However, don't forget that things can change extremely quickly after just slight demographic shifts. 10 years ago no one would have imagined that Logan Square would be anything but a heavily hispanic, working class, area. 10 years later it is one of the hottest hoods in the city. Right now we are seeing even bigger sea change shifts on the south side as the city continues to tear down projects and we are continuing to see "black flight" to the suburbs. This could open the doors to a rapid swing in the economic prospects of those areas. Hell, Pilsen/Littly Italy has already demonstrated rapid gentrification can happen on the south side. That area went from terrible to great in probably 15-20 years time. How do we know that won't continue into the Western reaches of Pilsen and then march right on into Lawndale over the next 20 years?
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  #15372  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 5:55 PM
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  #15373  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 6:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 View Post
10 years ago no one would have imagined that Logan Square would be anything but a heavily hispanic, working class, area.
I dunno about that. If the city is reviving, Logan Square is a natural. It sits right on the Blue Line connecting Chicagoland's two biggest economic centers, it is very walkable and has tons of great historic building stock and ample parkland. Easy access to the Kennedy makes it good for reverse commuters too, or DINKs where one partner works in the city and one in the N/NW burbs.

Hindsight is 20/20 but just looking at structural factors, Logan Square is prime for development.
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  #15374  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 6:59 PM
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That sort of analysis is trickier than it looks. You could say the very same things about Lawndale, for instance.
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  #15375  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 7:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
I dunno about that. If the city is reviving, Logan Square is a natural. It sits right on the Blue Line connecting Chicagoland's two biggest economic centers, it is very walkable and has tons of great historic building stock and ample parkland. Easy access to the Kennedy makes it good for reverse commuters too, or DINKs where one partner works in the city and one in the N/NW burbs.

Hindsight is 20/20 but just looking at structural factors, Logan Square is prime for development.
In concur. LS has been in the works for over a decade. I looked at apts near California and Milw in 1998...ended up in Uptown. Several of my friends who were priced out of WP by 1995 or so also moved to the "west" bucktown / LS area in the 1998-02 time frame a few became purchasers in the area after that.
Nowhereman is younger he was probably 10-12 years old in the 1998-02 time frame. It is understandable that a person who is not from here, did not grow up here and witness neighborhood transformation over decades that such a transformation would appear to be unthinkable merely 10 years ago. 10 years ago was 2002; I dated an actress / artist girl in LS who had many artist / hipster type friends in LS back in 2000 or so. The area then was very hipster / artist.....ie still affordable...not faux hipster like WP has been since the mid- late 90's. LS to me is roughly where WP was in about '95 maybe slightly earlier. LS developing at least in my mind was easily predictable, and the signs were present at least by the late 90's if not the early 2000's, no hindsight needed. It was edgy then; and still can be; but then so was WP in early- mid 90's by '98 -2000 WP had pretty much been emasculated.
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  #15376  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 7:29 PM
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That sort of analysis is trickier than it looks. You could say the very same things about Lawndale, for instance.
Well this will probably get me in trouble but for historical reasons it seems areas that are not predominately underclass entrenched indigent black have a much easier time gentrifying.

Be it simple racism, or the fact that the housing stock and built form in many indigent black neighborhood has either been destroyed by riots (lawndale) or simple neglect; areas in / near very poor black neighborhoods do not seem to gentrify unless the poor black pop is forced to move....Cabrini / Robert taylor (though gentrification stalled or outright halted by economic calamity of 07-09)

I do not have the data but I believe it is the case that in the poor hispanic community ownership runs higher than in the poor black population...which in turn may make it easier for an area that is non-black to gentrify since the owners may sell; whereas in the poor black area a landlord may be getting a rent subsidy and the impetus to sell is not as big a motivator.

This is a complex topic and there are almost certainly many factors the above is just my anecdotal observations.
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  #15377  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 8:42 PM
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White people are just less afraid of hispanics as they are black people, duh.
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  #15378  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 8:45 PM
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White people are just less afraid of hispanics as they are black people, duh.
It really is not that simple
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  #15379  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 9:39 PM
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It really is not that serious.
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  #15380  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 9:57 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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In concur. LS has been in the works for over a decade. I looked at apts near California and Milw in 1998...ended up in Uptown. Several of my friends who were priced out of WP by 1995 or so also moved to the "west" bucktown / LS area in the 1998-02 time frame a few became purchasers in the area after that.
Nowhereman is younger he was probably 10-12 years old in the 1998-02 time frame. It is understandable that a person who is not from here, did not grow up here and witness neighborhood transformation over decades that such a transformation would appear to be unthinkable merely 10 years ago. 10 years ago was 2002; I dated an actress / artist girl in LS who had many artist / hipster type friends in LS back in 2000 or so. The area then was very hipster / artist.....ie still affordable...not faux hipster like WP has been since the mid- late 90's. LS to me is roughly where WP was in about '95 maybe slightly earlier. LS developing at least in my mind was easily predictable, and the signs were present at least by the late 90's if not the early 2000's, no hindsight needed. It was edgy then; and still can be; but then so was WP in early- mid 90's by '98 -2000 WP had pretty much been emasculated.
Lol, this whole line again?


I don't doubt there were white starving artists living in Logan Square 10 years ago, but I do doubt that the area was considered any more promising than Humbolt Park or Bronzeville is now. Hell, you just said you moved to Uptown then. Did you think Uptown had similar potential? If so, then you are 50/50 on your predictions because Logan Square has taken off while Uptown has continued to run in circles and develop in fits and starts.

Even so, we see the exact same "signs" you claim to have seen in Logan Square 10 years ago in places like Pilsen, Bridgeport, and Bronzeville right now. I am guess than any of those three areas might take off, but any combination of them may or may not end up doing so. Fact is I have many friends who are looking at places in those areas and moving there, so how is what I'm saying absurd? I'm not claiming Logan Square was Lawndale 10 years ago. I'm claiming it was like Humbolt Park or Pilsen (away from UIC) or Bridgeport or Bronzeville are now. It was just another affordable neighborhood with small elements of the upper classes moving in to take advantage of the prices. There was no way of telling it would be the next "big thing" or it would have developed in the 1990's and not the 2000's. In other words, if it was so obviously the next big thing, then why didn't it develop 20 years ago instead of over the last 10?

Finally, I think you and I have different definitions of what Logan Square is. I think you are imagining the California and Western Stops to be a true part of Logan Square. Those are the fringes in my opinion and often more akin to Bucktown or Wicker than Logan. Logan Square to me applies to the immediate surroundings of the square itself (maybe a 5 block radius) and everything South along the bolevards to Palmer. These areas were certainly NOT gentrifying 10 years ago (unless you count a few starving artists here and there as gentrification) as they are just beginning to gentrify now. I would know as I live there and am watching the transformation. The heart of Logan Square is not the wasteland to the South along Milwaukee, it is the Square itself and Milwaukee North to Diversey. Everything North of the square is still heavily dominated by hispanics and has almost nothing in the way of the businesses you would associate with gentrification. However, especially over the past 6 months, these buisinesses have begun creeping north from their original colony around Longman and Eagle and setting up along Milwaukee as well. But none of that was there 10 years ago because it's just getting there now. So no, I highly doubt you were standing outside of a bodega at Milwaukee and Diversey in 2000 saying "gee this is a hot neighborhood" because the area was kinda a shit hole then and is just starting to change in earnest now. I don't doubt that you might have been Western and Milwaukee and said "I bet this will be a nice area some day", but that's a different story.
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