Northern Ontario developments!

[Dwils01]

Demolition is commencing on St. Mary's Paper which is the site for a proposed residential development.

Sad thing is that we are losing a building that was built back in the early 1900's and was the cities tallest for over 30 years.

[TbayON]

Originally Posted by Dwils01

Demolition is commencing on St. Mary's Paper which is the site for a proposed residential development.

Sad thing is that we are losing a building that was built back in the early 1900's and was the cities tallest for over 30 years.

I had several questions I was going to ask about this... but I found my answers...

http://www.northernontariobusiness.c...mill-site.aspx

Sounds like the old stone buildings will remain. You would have to be absolutely crazy as a developer to tear those things down, unless they were way beyond repair. The potential in old waterfront warehouse-type buildings in massive, no matter what city they may be found in. This is just another sign of the changing times in Northern Ontario. At least something is happening with the site that will benefit the Sault, although the loss of jobs at the mill is a definite blow to the community.

[Dwils01]

That's great that they are saving those buildings, it was only a few months ago that there was talks of demolishing the whole site and starting from scratch. Will have to get some pictures of the mill before it'a too late.

[TbayON]

Originally Posted by Dwils01

That's great that they are saving those buildings, it was only a few months ago that there was talks of demolishing the whole site and starting from scratch. Will have to get some pictures of the mill before it'a too late.

You could probably renovate them for some pretty neat condos overlooking the river, or even use them for offices or mixed use purposes. Hopefully they don't just sit there empty for years as most buildings that age will really begin to deteriorate and stagnate when not used.

Sounds like the paper machines in the mill are being sold off. This is of course bad news, as they will may be bought up by offshore interests and moved to another country and put into production there, further hindering the Canadian industry (or what is left of it). The best conclusion would be a recycler come in and buy them for scrap.

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Also on the forestry front, the fight over Terrace Bay Pulp is over. A Chinese company dragged things out in court a little longer than expected, by increasing their bid and promising a little more than Birla from India. The Chinese bid was also received initially after the deadline for bids. In the end, the court appointed monitor decided to accept the Birla bid.

The OPG power plant in Atikokan has reached a power purchase agreement with the OPA, which was the last remaining piece of the puzzle before conversion of the plant to fire on wood pellets/biomass could go ahead. Its a $200 million project that will create 200 construction jobs. Also, the plant will require pellets by 2014, when the conversion is complete, which will create more jobs in forestry in the Atikokan area. Ed Fukushima's company, who owns the former Fibrek mill in Atikokan and received a wood allocation for poplar and birch, is considered the front runner to supply the fuel.

[tjernobyl]

Vacant buildings reused! A request to rezone the former Mary J L Black library for use as a martial arts school is before Council, and the former Coran's is set to become an Indian bazaar in November.

Ken Boshcoff has proposed a Cross-Canada Marathon Museum.

Repairs to the lightning-struck lantern on the Whalen building are underway; final tally is looking like $171K.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by tjernobyl

...and the former Coran's is set to become an Indian bazaar in November....

I'm confused, is this the store on Victoria by Norah?? If so, is this just a new retail offering or is there something more??

BTW, regarding the fallout from the flood - anyone herein visit Commissary in the east end?? Was there in late June and picked up some of the last of their smoked sausages () and at the time they thought they would be out of commision until Dec (or never) ... curious as to how they may be fairing as I will be back in a couple weeks and have a craving or two.

[vid]

I don't go there, but if they are closed and you need sausages, we have two excellent delis on Simpson Street.

We just had Festival of India at Marina Park last week and it was a big success, so I think the Indian Bazaar thing will do fairly well. Kind of an odd location though.

[ccnews]

Originally Posted by shreddog

I'm confused, is this the store on Victoria by Norah?? If so, is this just a new retail offering or is there something more??

BTW, regarding the fallout from the flood - anyone herein visit Commissary in the east end?? Was there in late June and picked up some of the last of their smoked sausages () and at the time they thought they would be out of commision until Dec (or never) ... curious as to how they may be fairing as I will be back in a couple weeks and have a craving or two.

Commissary is open, but with limited items, groceries yes but no sausages
as of this past weekend - only smoked bacon
they are rebuilding though, but will take time

as for someone who grew up on the smoked meats from the Commissary, the two delis on Simpson don't even come close

[vid]

Originally Posted by ccnews

as for someone who grew up on the smoked meats from the Commissary, the two delis on Simpson don't even come close

*stinkeye*

[tjernobyl]

Originally Posted by shreddog

I'm confused, is this the store on Victoria by Norah?? If so, is this just a new retail offering or is there something more??

1206 Victoria Avenue East, between Norah and Marks. I don't have too much in the way of detail, but imagine there will a cultural program with concerts, etc.

[TbayON]

The former Ukrainian Catholic Church of the Ascension on Mountdale Ave in Westfort that has been for sale for some time now is apparently sold. A contractor/developer (not sure which) has purchased the property with the intention of tearing everything down and building a condo on the site. This is hearsay I have gathered off the street, so the actual details may be somewhat different, but in the end it sounds like a condo is going in there.

Also, the Elks have put in a bid to buy the Port Arthur Prosvita building. As part of the courthouse project, the current Elks location is being sought by government. A second bid from a party unknown to myself has also come in for the P.A. Prosvita, so the whole Elks thing is a little up in the air currently. The P.A. Proz is selling because the demand isn't there for the hall, no one is coming to the bar, and the workers aren't there to make the place run. I'm surprised they held on this long. Apparently the Ukrainian Credit Union will remain in the Prosvita building if the building ends up in the hands of the Elks group.

[Dwils01]

Will get to see some of the Thunder Bay projects this week when I go up there. First time since 2008, I wonder how much has changed.

Also there is a new proposal in the east end of the Sault by White Pines High School for a five floor 63 unit apartment building just off of the highway.
Seems to be a lot of proposed apartments near the outskirts, would prefer more density downtown first.

[tjernobyl]

Originally Posted by TbayON

The former Ukrainian Catholic Church of the Ascension on Mountdale Ave in Westfort that has been for sale for some time now is apparently sold. A contractor/developer (not sure which) has purchased the property with the intention of tearing everything down and building a condo on the site. This is hearsay I have gathered off the street, so the actual details may be somewhat different, but in the end it sounds like a condo is going in there.

Shame... I really liked the look of that building. Originally built in 1916, and featured in Doors Open 2006. Seemed to be in pretty decent shape as I remember it.

[vid]

Yeah, that building will be a shame to lose. It isn't as grand as the other Ukrainian churches but there are so few that you don't really want to lose any of them. Kind of an odd spot for a condo though. They probably mean "condominium four-plex" or something.

@Dwils01: The Thunder Centre area and Downtown Fort William have changed a lot since then, and Marina Park is almost completely different. Last time you were here they were just starting the skatepark.

[TbayON]

A couple recent things in the news:

The former Mary J.L. Black library building in Westfort, now vacated when the library moved to its new location, is likely going to become a martial arts school. A second bid was received for the building to turn it into some kind of club, but that bid was not considered to be acceptable by the listing agent.

City council approved a subdivision on Tuscany Dr., which contains a total of 60 lots for single detached homes at their last council meeting. Councillor Andrew Foulds spoke out against the proposal since its a reduction in lot numbers from the original proposal. Better something than nothing I would say... no?

A proposal to construct 4-4 unit apartment buildings on Ravenwood Ave. by the Oliver Rd Community Centre is meeting some resistance from area residents. Concerned residents contend increased traffic flow and parking congestion will result if the units are built. The buildings are being proposed for an empty lot that has been used as green space. The project planner is intending to accommodate all parking requirements off the street already. This development would be a start in helping relieve some of the pent up apartment demand in the city, even though it only represents a drop in the bucket of how many units are actually required.

The report was rather bland, but it sounds like Genivar (formerly Cook Engineering) is expanding to other locations in town, or they will be leaving their Syndicate Ave. office for a larger office. I couldn't understand which of the two it is though. Hopefully a move like this will highlight the problem with commercial office space in this town (the problem being the lack of large space).

The Elks building in Fort William has gone up for sale. There is an article on TBNews:
http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/225893/For-sale
No mention of the Prosvita (from my post the other day), or any new possible location by name for that matter in the article, but they do say they have been scouting places out.

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A couple other things I have noticed around town:

The road and services for the new lots at the end of Gemstone Dr., off of Hilldale, are being put in for what used to be a phase of the Silvertree subdivision. I am almost sure this is a different set of lots than the Tuscany development from above, but do correct me if I am wrong.

The skeleton of the new office and lab for True Grit Consulting Engineering is pretty well up in Innova.

Houses are popping up in just about every lot in the most recently opened phase of Parkdale (along the river near the expressway).

A vacant lot immediately behind the Superstore has been cleared. The lot was vacant and covered in shrubs prior to being cleared, and is on the north side of the road that runs behind Superstore and west of the new fenced parking lot Nissan put in. There are no signs there at this time indicating what is happening with the land.

The former chainsaw store/Direct Cabinets building at the corner of May St. and George St. has been completed renovated, and looks as though it is getting near completion now.

[vid]

Originally Posted by TbayON

Better something than nothing I would say... no?

No. Considering the location on the very edge of the city, the fact that residents in that area all generally opposed it, and the fact that large lots pay less tax per acre than smaller lots, this development is just a bad deal for everyone. But it has been in the planning stage since 1981 so I guess we have no choice, Dawson Heights "has to be" built up. That isn't really the best location for density anyway. Of all the suburban areas, only Sherwood Estates really has a chance of having decent planning in the future. It isn't as self-contained as the other subdivisions.

Originally Posted by TbayON

The buildings are being proposed for an empty lot that has been used as green space.

"Green space" is an odd name for "weed filled field that old people let their dogs shit in".

Originally Posted by TbayON

Houses are popping up in just about every lot in the most recently opened phase of Parkdale (along the river near the expressway).

When I went by there in late June, there were maybe 5 houses under construction and the entire site was a dirt field.

[TbayON]

Originally Posted by vid

No. Considering the location on the very edge of the city, the fact that residents in that area all generally opposed it, and the fact that large lots pay less tax per acre than smaller lots, this development is just a bad deal for everyone. But it has been in the planning stage since 1981 so I guess we have no choice, Dawson Heights "has to be" built up. That isn't really the best location for density anyway. Of all the suburban areas, only Sherwood Estates really has a chance of having decent planning in the future. It isn't as self-contained as the other subdivisions.

People in this city are always opposed to development in their neighbourhood, its just a fact of life in Thunder Bay and very likely many cities out there, so I wouldn't use that as too much of a point for debating this development. The lots aren't overly large either, pretty well the same as what has already been built on Tuscany:



I'm not going to pretend that is the absolute best type of development for any city and I too would like to see some urban and upwards development towards core areas, but at least we aren't talking 1 acre estate sized lots. People want their single detached houses, so developers are going to build them. Until the city starts to communicate that taxes have to keep going up and up some more partially due to the style of development in North America, that demand for housing is not likely to change in the short to medium term. Even then, I think many people will still be willing to pay the price. The development is on the edge of the city that is built up, but far from city limits. At least Red River and Dawson are there already to provide the commercial real estate that people in this subdivision will most likely frequent. This one shouldn't remain too self contained once the Northwest Arterial is built (whenever that happens).

Originally Posted by vid

"Green space" is an odd name for "weed filled field that old people let their dogs shit in".

Hey, now you know who is sending letters to the city opposing it. An area resident on TBNews made the exact same comment, so there is truth to that.

Originally Posted by vid

When I went by there in late June, there were maybe 5 houses under construction and the entire site was a dirt field.

I really notice these things now that I am only back to town on weekends every now and then. I haven't actually gone in there, but off the expressway one can really see things change when they are only home every couple of weeks.

[vid]

If you're talking about the website, I made that comment there. I used to live on Oliver Road, at what would have been the end of that street had it continued through the Community Centre, and I used to walk down that street a lot to get to the store. The only people that ever went there were older people who were walking their dogs outside to shit and then going back into their houses across the street, to avoid having dog shit in their yard. It was OK because it isn't part of the school property. Kids play at the playground a hundred feet away beside the community centre, and there is a recreation area by the auditorium with baseball diamonds. That "greenspace" isn't needed, so we should develop it. It would be more beneficial to the city, and the site isn't currently used as parking and will have more than enough on-site parking so it won't really have any impact on traffic at all. It's 16 units. You might as well make the argument that "Ravenwood is so congested, we need to remove half of its houses to ease the traffic".

Also, if you go into the bush behind all those houses, it's a popular university student party spot. It probably has one of the highest concentrations of litter in the city. Must be about 20 bucks worth of empties in there.

Now another thing that bothers me about the edge of town developments is that even though the city set up a boundary of where the built-up part of the city (the "urban services area") ends, developers keep designing their subdivisions to have collector roads leading out of them. In the map you posted, it's Aquamarine Drive. The northern edge of that subdivision is the edge of the urban service area, but that cul-de-sac is just for show. They totally intend to build north, not south. Aquamarine is supposed to run south to Hilldale but I doubt it will ever make it.

It's like they're purposely building a case for the city to let them build outside the urban services area because "we already have a road going there!" Either that or the developers behind these subdivisions are just retarded and like building streets that end at the bush. I haven't seen this kind of behaviour anywhere else in Canada:

[TbayON]

Yea I think my favourite comment was the one who said to build 10 duplex units instead of 16 apartment units. Like really... Are those 6 units really going to make that much of a difference to you? I don't see that comment on there anymore though.

The area bounded by Oliver Rd, Balmoral Ave, Beverly St and Winnipeg Ave is already roughly 25% parkland and rec. buildings (just did a quick estimate using Google Earth). There isn't need for that lot to remain as "greenspace" at all. The parking and traffic congestion BS is getting so old and tiring to listen to. It seems that is the only argument people can come up with when they don't want to see something getting built in their neighbourhood. In addition, I wouldn't be surprised if greater than 50% of the tenants in those units were students. They often don't drive, or limit their travel because they can't afford to be running around in their vehicles all day long.

Is there a map out there that delineates the urban service area? I am not familiar with where that line has been drawn, not that it seems to matter based on what you say. They didn't even try to make the north end of Aquamarine Dr in that map look like a cul-de-sac, so I guess there is no intention to do that and the city development dept and council seem perfectly fine with it. It looks as though Burgundy Dr heading east-west will continue at some point in time towards Hwy 102 as well.

Aquamarine Drive will run south to at least Emerald Court and cross Wardrope along its way. That piece of development (I guess its being referred to as the Dawson Heights subdivision now?) wraps around the lots currently being cleared at the end of Gemstone Dr and is south of the Tuscany lots I posted the map of. The houses will spread south to the Hydro One corridor, at which point I have no idea if the intention is there to continue on, or if Aquamarine will end there. I have no idea where myself where Aquamarine would run into Hilldale? It does appear in the shitty plans I looked at that both Ruby and Gemstone will end in cul-de-sacs at this point in time, and not continue past the subdivisions currently being proposed now.

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Heard today that Fort William clinic is moving. The clinic is having a new building constructed and will be moving from the downtown south core to somewhere near the TBRHSC site. Its unfortunate the clinic is leaving the downtown south core, and is somewhat of a setback after many recent positive developments in that area. I guess the current location is in pretty bad shape though, and the building would require substantial renovation. The lure of being near the hospital was probably too great to ignore once the need to renovate or move became apparent. I'm not sure if a name change is going to accompany the move as well, given the clinic will no longer be in Fort William.

[vid]

Originally Posted by TbayON

Yea I think my favourite comment was the one who said to build 10 duplex units instead of 16 apartment units. Like really... Are those 6 units really going to make that much of a difference to you? I don't see that comment on there anymore though.

I saw that comment too. I think it is mainly due to the general "only poor people live in apartments and I don't want the problems associated with them"; poor people obviously a euphemism for "aboriginals".

Originally Posted by TbayON

Is there a map out there that delineates the urban service area?

It is in the Official Plan.

http://www.thunderbay.ca/Doing_Busin...Plan_Index.htm

Schedule C shows where residential areas will go and what they'll be like, and there is a suburban (one-acre estates) residential area north of that subdivision so I guess it kind of makes sense to have a road going there? In the end of the official plan there are community plans for Parkdale (which was supposed to be huge), Northwest (which is also quite big), Dawson Heights (which should have just been part of the Northwest plan, really) and Fairview, which is in Neebing and about 33% built. It's actually called the "Urban Area Limit"; but I remember it always being called the "Urban Services Area". It's basically the extent of the city that has city water, sewer and regular transit within 500m.

Originally Posted by TbayON

Aquamarine Drive will run south to at least Emerald Court and cross Wardrope along its way. That piece of development (I guess its being referred to as the Dawson Heights subdivision now?) wraps around the lots currently being cleared at the end of Gemstone Dr and is south of the Tuscany lots I posted the map of. The houses will spread south to the Hydro One corridor, at which point I have no idea if the intention is there to continue on, or if Aquamarine will end there. I have no idea where myself where Aquamarine would run into Hilldale?

There was a map of the developer's plans for the entire area in the council minutes recently for a rezoning request:



You can see an existing "street" (more of a trail though) that approaches from the south. That was originally supposed to connect to the subdivision but the people living on that trail successfully got those plans changed, so it will no longer be part of the development. There is a trail with a house on it that goes into the subdivision, and someone is living in there, and it looks like they're accommodating its continued existence with that plan, which is weird. That's a very odd spot for a neighbourhood's oldest house to be.