Delta and US Airways

[JMedwick]

US Airways has made an offer to buy Delta.

In such a deal what cities are the winners and loosers. Since I only know about the hubs and headquarters, that is where I will start.

US Airways:
HQ: Tempe, AZ
Hubs: Phoenix, Philly, and Charlotte, N.C


Delta:
HQ: Atlanta
Hubs: Atlanta, Cincinnati and Salt Lake City

Who looses their hub? Where does the HQ end up?

Given that US Airways just moved their hub from Crystal City, VA to Tempe combined with the fact that US Airways would be the buyer, I think Atlanta looses the HQ. As for hubs, I say Atlanta stays a hub due to its size, and Phoenix still remains a hub because of the HQ. I guess Charlotte would be the obvious looser due to its proximity to Atlanta, so too may Salt Lake City due to its proximity to Phoenix. What does anyone else think?

[atl26]

Firstly I think this merger is somewhat weird. I dont see the inherent benefit of this in the long run. I think we will see Atl ans the main hub Obviously. Phoenix as the west coast gateway Cinncinati will be kept. New York will be kept and expanded at the expense of Philadelphia(the o&D and sheer visitor numbers alone justify this). cHARLOTTE will become a focus city with service to the major us cities some feeder and a few international. I just can't see charlotte (and im not meaning this to offend) with the Massive Atl hub down the road being kept as a Major hub. Charlotte will keep a large portion of its routes but not at the levels they are now.

But this reminds me of the recent bid by Ryanair in Ireland for the Flag Carrier Aer Lingus. The shareholders and to a degree the government are 100% against it. I think the same will be tru wit htis on. To much concentration on the East coast, not to mentionI think the creditors of delta are behind there plan to exit bankruptcy. If the merger was to take place and I hope it doesnt, I think UsAirways/HP would find that their would be many stipulations they would have to abide by such as fleet and alliances etc.

[john3eblover]

Originally Posted by JMedwick

US Airways has made an offer to buy Delta.

In such a deal what cities are the winners and loosers. Since I only know about the hubs and headquarters, that is where I will start.

US Airways:
HQ: Tempe, AZ
Hubs: Phoenix, Philly, and Charlotte, N.C


Delta:
HQ: Atlanta
Hubs: Atlanta, Cincinnati and Salt Lake City

Who looses their hub? Where does the HQ end up?

Given that US Airways just moved their hub from Crystal City, VA to Tempe combined with the fact that US Airways would be the buyer, I think Atlanta looses the HQ. As for hubs, I say Atlanta stays a hub due to its size, and Phoenix still remains a hub because of the HQ. I guess Charlotte would be the obvious looser due to its proximity to Atlanta, so too may Salt Lake City due to its proximity to Phoenix. What does anyone else think?

First of all, if this merger (or buyout) were to go through, there is no way that the headquarters would leave Atlanta. Atlanta is home to the busiest airport in the world, and one of the most efficient well run. The name of the airline would be Delta as stated in the articles, so the HQ would most logically remain in Atlanta where the largest hub is.

SLC is not the hub it once was because Delta has been drastically reducing their domestic routes and increasing their international routes. Cinci is also not the hub it once was. The REAL hub that Delta is building up is JFK (in NYC).

IF the merger were to go through, there are bigger questions. Issues of compatable aircraft - Delta is all Boeing, US Airways is largely Airbus.

There are also issues of hubs and many other things.

But people, there have been rumors of mergers and buyouts and speculations for the past few years. I highly doubt this will end up happening

[JACKinBeantown]

There are people giving away T-shirts and other Delta crap at Madison Square Park today. Coincidence?

[John F]

I think the biggest winners are the low cost airliners who are trying to get a foothold in some of the major markets that Delta will undoubtedly scale back if this merger goes through. It also helps the smaller carriers because the legacy airliners keep getting bigger and more complex, teeming with more problems via labor and what not.

The losers are the hubs if not east coast travelers. Doesn't US Airways operate hubs in Charlotte and Philly along with Phoenix? I believe they left Pittsburgh as a hub... You can't operate all of these major bases of flights as well as pick up Atlanta, Cinncy and JFK.

But I digress. The Airline industry is not my strong suit to discuss.

[Daltnpapi4u]

If that was the case why did US/HP HQ move to PHX when CLT is their main hub? I doubt HQ will be decided based on size of one of their hubs US/HP has already proved that.

On another note I think NW will be better to merge with. DL doesnt seem to offer US much of anything from what it looks like.

Also US now has a site up for the merger

http://www.usairways.com/awa/content...r/default.aspx

Originally Posted by john3eblover

First of all, if this merger (or buyout) were to go through, there is no way that the headquarters would leave Atlanta. Atlanta is home to the busiest airport in the world, and one of the most efficient well run. The name of the airline would be Delta as stated in the articles, so the HQ would most logically remain in Atlanta where the largest hub is.

SLC is not the hub it once was because Delta has been drastically reducing their domestic routes and increasing their international routes. Cinci is also not the hub it once was. The REAL hub that Delta is building up is JFK (in NYC).

IF the merger were to go through, there are bigger questions. Issues of compatable aircraft - Delta is all Boeing, US Airways is largely Airbus.

There are also issues of hubs and many other things.

But people, there have been rumors of mergers and buyouts and speculations for the past few years. I highly doubt this will end up happening

[Major AWACS]

US is an Airbus fleet DL is a Boeing fleet not to mention the horrible east coast overlap the two have. US is still having issues with its AmericaWest merger let alone integrating another carrier. Shareholders might like it but I don't think the US DOJ will.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going

[JMedwick]

Originally Posted by john3eblover

First of all, if this merger (or buyout) were to go through, there is no way that the headquarters would leave Atlanta. Atlanta is home to the busiest airport in the world, and one of the most efficient well run. The name of the airline would be Delta as stated in the articles, so the HQ would most logically remain in Atlanta where the largest hub is.

That makes little sense. Lets review some facts:

1. When US Airways and America West merged, the US Airways name was kept and the HQ moved to Tempe, the site of the America West HQ, though I will admit that Phoenix is the combined company's largest hub.

2. The current CEO and many higher-ups within US Airways are America West folks. With US Airways being the acquiring company (in the same way as BellSouth and AT&T) and US Airways run by Phoenix folks, do you really think that they will move to Atlanta?

3. "Atlanta is home to the busiest airport in the world, and one of the most efficient well run." The efficient and well run line makes me laugh. Take a look at the on-time stats for Atlanta as reported by the US government compared to other large US airports.
Air Travel Consumer Report
After taking a look at that you no doubt see that from 6 pm -10pm less than 50% of arriving flights come in on time with a cumulative on-time arrival percentage of 60%. From 8pm-9pm, only 48.7% of departures leave on time. Atlanta has a cumulative on-time departure rate of 65.3%. ORD has no hour-long periods below 50% and a cumulative on-time departure rate of 69%Those figures are far below any other US airport, even ORD. I am sorry, but no matter how you slice it, Atlanta looks like a hub that is too large for its own good and anything but a model of efficiency for anyone.

[Rail Claimore]

I never would have guessed this one. Delta and Northwest, yes... though there are aircraft compatability issues there as well. But Delta and US Airways?

If it goes through, PHL will lose some of its flights, but it's still a large-enough O&D market to keep most of its operations. CLT and SLC have the most to lose out of this one.

Delta is already the leading transatlantic carrier, and Delta will be #2 to Latin America by the time they emerge from Chap 11. This merger does nothing, however, to address their biggest geographical weakness: Asia. US Airways has nothing in that part of the world and Delta has just one route, ATL-NRT, with another coming next year, ATL-ICN.

I'd also expect United to complain considering US Airways is a partner airline in Star Alliance.

[john3eblover]

Originally Posted by JMedwick

That makes little sense. Lets review some facts:

1. When US Airways and America West merged, the US Airways name was kept and the HQ moved to Tempe, the site of the America West HQ, though I will admit that Phoenix is the combined company's largest hub.

2. The current CEO and many higher-ups within US Airways are America West folks. With US Airways being the acquiring company (in the same way as BellSouth and AT&T) and US Airways run by Phoenix folks, do you really think that they will move to Atlanta?

3. "Atlanta is home to the busiest airport in the world, and one of the most efficient well run." The efficient and well run line makes me laugh. Take a look at the on-time stats for Atlanta as reported by the US government compared to other large US airports.
Air Travel Consumer Report
After taking a look at that you no doubt see that from 6 pm -10pm less than 50% of arriving flights come in on time with a cumulative on-time arrival percentage of 60%. From 8pm-9pm, only 48.7% of departures leave on time. Atlanta has a cumulative on-time departure rate of 65.3%. ORD has no hour-long periods below 50% and a cumulative on-time departure rate of 69%Those figures are far below any other US airport, even ORD. I am sorry, but no matter how you slice it, Atlanta looks like a hub that is too large for its own good and anything but a model of efficiency for anyone.

Ok, first of all, we know that the Delta name will be kept. They have stated this. And why? Because, Delta airlines at the 3rd largest US carrier is a more respected and widely known Airline, one that is valued more than US Airways. This was also stated in the article, and is common knowledge.

Secondly, I'm not sure why you keep citing the merger between HP and US Airways. Its a completely different thing. And in that circumstance, US Airways was the more common name, and that's probably why it was kept. It also had a bigger fleet, but CLT is a poor place to have a main hub. Basically, what you had there was the gutting of US Airways by HP. HP was a superior airline, and better off financially, but US Airways was more well known, so they took the name, and changed everything else.

With Delta and US Airways, do you honestly think that CLT is superior to Atlanta? Do you think that US Airways is a better airline?? Do you honestly think that the city of Tempe is a better city for a headquarters than Atlanta? Who even knows where Tempe is?? Do you think that Delta is just going to agree to let US Airways gut them and take them over?

Regarding Hartsfield-Jackson's efficiency and importance as a hub and main airport, I really don't understand what we're arguing about. Yes, Hartsfield can have some delays from time to time. This comes from handling over 85 million people each year. Hartsfield-Jackson is one of the most important airports in the world, and yes, its design is one of the simplest yet most efficient. Now that all 5 runways are finally all operating at the same time, you can expect the delays to be reduced significantly.

As much as you want Delta to merge or be taken over by US Airways, it isn't going to happen. And if it does, expect there to be not much of US airways left.

[Major AWACS]

[QUOTE=Rail Claimore]
Delta is already the leading transatlantic carrier, and Delta will be #2 to Latin America by the time they emerge from Chap 11. QUOTE]

A bit of a tangent but not even close. American and Continental will be one and two for a long time to come. Delta is battling with US Airways now for third place among us carriers to Latin America.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Wir Lieben Fliegen

[JMedwick]

Originally Posted by john3eblover

Regarding Hartsfield-Jackson's efficiency and importance as a hub and main airport, I really don't understand what we're arguing about. Yes, Hartsfield can have some delays from time to time. This comes from handling over 85 million people each year. Hartsfield-Jackson is one of the most important airports in the world, and yes, its design is one of the simplest yet most efficient.

The design may be efficent, but its operations are not. No matter how you slice it, Hartsfield has periods of the day where delays are more commonplace than being on-time. I don't know how you want to measure it, but to me, if the flights don't arive and leave on-time, then the airport is not very efficent, because lets face it, that is what matters to the users of the airport. How can you argue an airport that has the worst delays in the nation is efficent is beyond me? So efficent people are late? If they can't efficently run an airport with 85 million people a year without incuring signifigant delays (such high traffic is largely because the airport is a hub), then maybe some of the hub activity should be moved to other airports.


As for the merger, I think it is pretty clear that the name of the combined airline has little to do with where the HQ is going to locate. I mean heck, by your logic why would AT&T not have moved their HQ to NYC or New Jersey or Atlanta through their various mergers. No, instead the HQ sits in San Antonio. Why? Because very often the aquiring company gets the spoils, including choosing where the HQ is. Tell me again why long time America West officals would move to Atlanta? Oh I see... Its because the name of the company will be Delta...

[Daquan13]

They just bought America Worst not too long ago!

Now they want Delta Skelter too?

[DonTallPaul]

With Delta and US Airways, do you honestly think that CLT is superior to Atlanta? Do you think that US Airways is a better airline?? Do you honestly think that the city of Tempe is a better city for a headquarters than Atlanta? Who even knows where Tempe is?? Do you think that Delta is just going to agree to let US Airways gut them and take them over?

The actual merits of an Atlanta vs. Tempe HQ discussion aside, the comment of who even knows where Tempe is a little off base. Being from Atlanta I want to see Delta remain here, maybe even see the combined companies HQ come here. But come on, that's just classless. Tempe is a sizeable suburb of Phoenix and generally well known (considering it is a suburb). I doubt the well people have never heard of Tempe will come into play in the discussion, and MOST people in the business community are probably pretty familiar with it. Hell, most people who watch college football bowl games probably know the city very well.....

[JMedwick]

^ Exactly. There are plenty of good reasons for the HQ to locate in Atlanta (the largest hub would be there, the city is larger) but there are plenty of reasons for the company to locate its HQ in Tempe (many execs are from the Phoenix area, company HQ was just moved to Tempe, US is the aquiring company)

[Grego43]

Hartsfield-Jackson is one of the most important airports in the world, and yes, its design is one of the simplest yet most efficient.


Busiest airport in the world, yes....one of the most important, not even close...most important only for Delta. ATL has high O&D traffic, but most passengers are just connecting. ATL is surely an important airport for people in the SE United States, but doesn't have the worldwide importance of an ORD, JFK, LAX, CDG, HKG, NRT, FRA, LHR, AMS, etc where multiple foreign carriers have operations. If Delta were to disappear tomorrow, other airlines would pick up the O&D slack, but the transfer numbers would plummet.

[Daltnpapi4u]

US did not buy HP, HP bought US but just kept US name. Also the reason why the HQ is in Tempe its where HP is from. I think if US does take over DL the HQ will continue to be Tempe. They will not base their decision on what city is more known or populated.

Originally Posted by Daquan13

They just bought America Worst not too long ago!

Now they want Delta Skelter too?

[nergie]

Originally Posted by john3eblover

Ok, first of all, we know that the Delta name will be kept. They have stated this. And why? Because, Delta airlines at the 3rd largest US carrier is a more respected and widely known Airline, one that is valued more than US Airways. This was also stated in the article, and is common knowledge.

Secondly, I'm not sure why you keep citing the merger between HP and US Airways. Its a completely different thing. And in that circumstance, US Airways was the more common name, and that's probably why it was kept. It also had a bigger fleet, but CLT is a poor place to have a main hub. Basically, what you had there was the gutting of US Airways by HP. HP was a superior airline, and better off financially, but US Airways was more well known, so they took the name, and changed everything else.

With Delta and US Airways, do you honestly think that CLT is superior to Atlanta? Do you think that US Airways is a better airline?? Do you honestly think that the city of Tempe is a better city for a headquarters than Atlanta? Who even knows where Tempe is?? Do you think that Delta is just going to agree to let US Airways gut them and take them over?

Regarding Hartsfield-Jackson's efficiency and importance as a hub and main airport, I really don't understand what we're arguing about. Yes, Hartsfield can have some delays from time to time. This comes from handling over 85 million people each year. Hartsfield-Jackson is one of the most important airports in the world, and yes, its design is one of the simplest yet most efficient. Now that all 5 runways are finally all operating at the same time, you can expect the delays to be reduced significantly.

As much as you want Delta to merge or be taken over by US Airways, it isn't going to happen. And if it does, expect there to be not much of US airways left.

Bit of homerism here, ATL is not that important in the world scheme of things. Yes ATL is critical to S. Eastern USA but let's not overplay its importance it is no LHR, LAX, JFK. It is not the main gateway, yet, to any part of the world say like SFO and LAX are to the Pacific.

[john3eblover]

Originally Posted by DonTallPaul

The actual merits of an Atlanta vs. Tempe HQ discussion aside, the comment of who even knows where Tempe is a little off base. Being from Atlanta I want to see Delta remain here, maybe even see the combined companies HQ come here. But come on, that's just classless. Tempe is a sizeable suburb of Phoenix and generally well known (considering it is a suburb). I doubt the well people have never heard of Tempe will come into play in the discussion, and MOST people in the business community are probably pretty familiar with it. Hell, most people who watch college football bowl games probably know the city very well.....

Cmon Don, it was a sarcastic and exaggerated comment. I think my point was fairly obvious.

[nergie]

Originally Posted by Grego43

Hartsfield-Jackson is one of the most important airports in the world, and yes, its design is one of the simplest yet most efficient.


Busiest airport in the world, yes....one of the most important, not even close...most important only for Delta. ATL has high O&D traffic, but most passengers are just connecting. ATL is surely an important airport for people in the SE United States, but doesn't have the worldwide importance of an ORD, JFK, LAX, CDG, HKG, NRT, FRA, LHR, AMS, etc where multiple foreign carriers have operations. If Delta were to disappear tomorrow, other airlines would pick up the O&D slack, but the transfer numbers would plummet.

I guess we were thinking the same thing at same time, my response was a bit delayed.