There goes the gayborhood...

[Dr. Smoke]

Originally Posted by westsider

I had no idea there are so many gays on this forum,

Me neither.

These guys architects? Builders? What?

Seems like gayness wouldn't mix with construction. Seems like construction workers and developers would object to 'gaying it up', under any circumstances.

[alexjon]

That's funny.

[robbobpdx]

Originally Posted by Dr. Smoke

Me neither.

These guys architects? Builders? What?

Seems like gayness wouldn't mix with construction. Seems like construction workers and developers would object to 'gaying it up', under any circumstances.

Hmmmm Interesting comment made in a thread called "there goes the gayborhood."

Of course there are alot of gays who are creative. No big surpise there. This is only one thread on a host of threads about development and skyscrapers around the world, but nontheless it's about a neighborhood that historically has had gay establishments and as it turns out may be changing from that. So no big surprise those on the forum who feel comfortable talking about the gay establishments in the area that has historically been gay. At least, it's no surpise to me.

[dkealoha]

These guys architects? Builders? What?

Seems like gayness wouldn't mix with construction. Seems like construction workers and developers would object to 'gaying it up', under any circumstances.

My boyfriend is a general contractor and has his own construction and design company... so yes, gayness can mix with construction.

[seaskyfan]

Originally Posted by Dr. Smoke

Me neither.

These guys architects? Builders? What?

Seems like gayness wouldn't mix with construction. Seems like construction workers and developers would object to 'gaying it up', under any circumstances.

Ignorant comment. If you're trying to be funny you missed by a mile.

[PacificNW]

I don't quite get the comment either, Dr. Smoke, but I will you the benefit of the doubt. Years ago I had a friend who owned a Portland home building firm. For many years he built one of the models for the "Street of Dreams". He happened to be gay.

[Dr. Smoke]

As expected, a couple here didn't get me, but most did. Kudos to those. First of all, Ah'm a transplanted Texan and I don't really care what people think, so I am usually honest. I think people prefer this anyway.

Second, the intent of my comment was to try and learn something. I did learn a bit, and sometimes the only way to get the truth is to probe the 'gray area'. Now that people know this, the responses won't be so honest. But people definitely sorted out here though, notice?

As most members here are progressive (me being farther Left than this), gays should know they are among friends. Even the conservatives here have proven tolerant. I will observe though, that culturally some things are just personal. This is what I meant to point out with my drugs post above.

I've learned more about the nature of gay neighborhoods in this thread and so it's been useful, but wouldn't think about discussing the best place to pick up a hot chick, etc. Some things are just personal, gay or straight.

[MarkDaMan]

^I tend to agree with most of what you've stated. In discussing the fabric of our cities as we do on this board, it would be a mistake not to talk about the cultural phenomenon of the 70's when gay districts popped up in most major cities across America, and their recent disappearing act. As traditionally 'heterosexual' night clubs, usually cleaner, brighter and offering a range of music and theme, in more progressive cities actively go after gay clientele with gay nights, and very gay friendly weekends, the earlier generation of America's gay movement is fading into history. It really hasn't been discussed though, even in the gay community, how the lack of a gay main street might impact not only the community, but the city as a whole.

I tend to think the lack of a gay triangle might be good for Portland. As the gays come out of their ghetto, compacting into the OTCT ghetto, with its mix of straight strip clubs only blocks from a female impersonator night spot, and everything in between, I think it will create a more secure and higher quality scene for gays, and a better night scene for the city.

That said, I still don't get what this implied?

Originally Posted by Dr. Smoke

Seems like gayness wouldn't mix with construction. Seems like construction workers and developers would object to 'gaying it up', under any circumstances.

because, I don't exude a 'gayness' and I wouldn't expect contruction workers or developers to 'gay it up'. In fact, you'd probably be hard pressed to pick myself, and my partner, as a gay couple. Shit, a weekend back at the mall I got a female cashiers number given to me, she thought me and my friend were 'cute'. Although I find it a bit uncomfortable, I smiled, said hi, walked off and the number is still at the bottom of one of my shopping bags (if any heteros here are interested she was a hottie).

I don't demand my current employer to paint my walls in pink, wispy whisper when speaking to me, or softly shake my hand. I'm a dude into dudes, I watch football, drink beer, cuss too much, and belch and fart...Since I've finally decided to get an urban development degree and leave my current field after I'm done with school, I think I'll fit right in with construction workers, developers, and whoever else I need to deal with in this field whether they be overly masculine or overly feminine, or even women...

[Dr. Smoke]

I was trying to figure out where y'all fit. I think we all know the culture of development and construction, and particularly being from Texas I was surprised that maybe half of the members in this forum are gay.

My statement was the wedge intended to split the atoms, trying to ascertain the true nature of things. I've pretty much failed though, as no real insights emerged.

I am still trying to figure out Seattle culture in general. I can tell you though, that it is a sweet piece of pie, compared with Dallas. People are universally nicer and there's far less corruption, although it is run more like a small town, which is perplexing. Large meetings are more like self-congratulatory back-slapping affairs, rather than for work. No one I've come across though, works on the level I need to help me understand how to better function here.

As I am a Leftist, trapped for 52 years in Dallas, I can tell you that the PacNW is a breath of fresh air. And I am actively trying to learn about things.

[seaskyfan]

I find your explanations as lame as your post.

You could have simply said "I'm surprised by the number of gay folks in this forum - are you folks in construction/development and if so do you experience homophobia?" but instead you went with the "gaying it up" crack.

Being a "leftist" or probing "the gray area" isn't a license to be offensive in my book.

It's also interesting to me that there isn't a "if I offended anyone I'm sorry" bit in either of you posts, just some stuff about how some people got it and how you don't care anyway but that you think most folks prefer honesty.

[Dr. Smoke]

Whelp, I tried to explain.

Take it, or leave it.

[Drmyeyes]

I think I can understand the texan being surprized and unfamiliar with who it is today that might be interested in and are becoming involved with the construction field.

A lot of people tend to rely on the widely made suggestion that construction is still a "man's" world, influenced as they are by the media and culture. Straight, not gay. At least, in the area of construction most of the public would be most familiar with; the labor seen on construction sites wearing baggy, worn, dirty carharts, scraggly beards, and so forth, that is contrary to the publicly ingrained perception of gays...well, gay men, as effete, fastidious types.

Of course, most of you guys are probably heading for some upper level work related to construction. So maybe there, you won't experience the effects of cartoon characterization.

[Dr. Smoke]

Originally Posted by seaskyfan

You could have simply said "I'm surprised by the number of gay folks in this forum - are you folks in construction/development and if so do you experience homophobia?" but instead you went with the "gaying it up" crack.

Being a "leftist" or probing "the gray area" isn't a license to be offensive in my book.

For the record: I have no doubt that you found it humorous when Jon Stewart on The Daily Show said "gaying it up". He meant it in a facetious and humorous manner. For this reason, I did not foresee that anyone here would find this to have malignant intent, and it was in a humorous tone that I wrote that.

Now; I can understand how some of you would be hyper-sensitive, given the treatment and discrimination you guys experience. Trust me, I saw it in Dallas, particularly in High School; I was aware of it because I care. But reflexively presuming the worst, is not the way to make friends. It is the path to unhappiness.

So give a brother a break, hm?

[roner]

Dr. Smoke,

Portland is in the top 6 cities of per capta gay populations. Therefore, it should be no suprise that gays work in all fields in Portland.

[seaskyfan]

Originally Posted by Dr. Smoke

For the record: I have no doubt that you found it humorous when Jon Stewart on The Daily Show said "gaying it up". He meant it in a facetious and humorous manner. For this reason, I did not foresee that anyone here would find this to have malignant intent, and it was in a humorous tone that I wrote that.

Now; I can understand how some of you would be hyper-sensitive, given the treatment and discrimination you guys experience. Trust me, I saw it in Dallas, particularly in High School; I was aware of it because I care. But reflexively presuming the worst, is not the way to make friends. It is the path to unhappiness.

So give a brother a break, hm?

No worries, guy.

It seems like a leap to think that because it's funny when Jon Stewart says it, people will think it's funny coming from you. On a forum like this I've found you need to be pretty clear on your intent because it is so tough to reliably tell tone. From your post I couldn't tell whether you were trying to be funny or if you were a clueless asshole.

Welcome to the blue states.

[MarkDaMan]

Originally Posted by Dr. Smoke

For the record: I have no doubt that you found it humorous when Jon Stewart on The Daily Show said "gaying it up". He meant it in a facetious and humorous manner. For this reason, I did not foresee that anyone here would find this to have malignant intent, and it was in a humorous tone that I wrote that.

I don't think you are a homophobe at all, and I do thank you for your support and understanding, as well as your willingness to go a little bit deeper to explain your intent.

I have on a few occasions misunderstood other posts as rude or intolerant, as well as others have taken my posts to be inflamitory when it was humor, not offensive as taken. Welcome to the digital world, I guess that is why they allow us to put 'smileys' on our posts.

[Dr. Smoke]

.

[MarkDaMan]

Actually just about 9% of Portlanders openly identify themselves as homosexual. Given that there is about half that gay community in the closet (even my partner of almost 7 years wouldn't select gay if that were an option), whether because of family, work, religious affiliation, or any other reason, that number can easily best 15%, which even at 9%, is larger than most minority populations in Portland.

I don't have first hand knowledge about the situation gays face in the construction and the developer workforce. To be perfectly honest, I am going to focus my education on being a planner, not a hard hat worker. I do think the urban planning world is extremely gay friendly, probably moreso than being out in the field doing the dirty work. I wouldn't be surprised if that accounts for the large population of gays on this board. I also don't think that many construction workers get off their shift, and than blog the evening away talking about buildings...we don't really get the builder perspective here, more the future outlook.

[seaskyfan]

I'm a former planner and I agree that field is very gay friendly, as is architecture (although I think planning is even friendlier).

I do know some gay/lesbian contractors and construction workers (even one male-to-female transgendered construction worker). For the most part these are folks who don't take crap from people but even so I know that a lot of them tend to work for smaller firms, especially those that target the LGBT community (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender). When we did our kitchen remodel we hired a general contractor who was a lesbian and she worked primarily with subs from the community. They did an awesome job - the shimming she had to do to get everything level in my cranky 1906 house was truly amazing.

A recent study had Seattle as second only to SF in gay/lesbian population (something like 12+%).

[Dr. Smoke]

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