MAJOR Problems in Harrisburg & Dauphin County

[EastSideHBG]

I have to draw attention to the serious, serious problems going on in South Central PA, specifically Dauphin County, the Harrisburg Metro and the city itself. Now you will know exactly why I left, and why I have such animosity towards the place anymore. Unless you live(d) there, you have no idea just how bad things are there; like a typical government-based economy, they try to paint a very rosy picture on the surface. But peel a few layers back and you will quickly see the nastiness that lies beneath.

I don't see good things for its future AT ALL, and it is just one screw up after another after another after another...it has now gone WAY too far, and people's lives are now in danger!

Check out The Harrisburg Thread to read about the ridiculousness in the city.

*************

Highspire firefighters call for community talk

The Highspire Fire Department stopped responding to calls after a dispute that both sides agree centered on the council's withholding the fire department's $24,000 annual allotment because its books weren't audited.

http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriot...670.xml&coll=1

*************

DAUPHIN COUNTY

5 of DA's detectives could be laid off

Tuesday, December 05, 2006
BY GARRY LENTON
Of The Patriot-News

A Dauphin County criminal investigative unit that helps local police departments and the district attorney is facing a 40 percent cut in staff.

The county's proposed $132.5 million budget for next year calls for the elimination of five detectives in the Criminal Inves tigations Division of District Attorney Edward M. Marsico Jr.'s office.

The cuts, if approved when the budget goes to a vote Dec. 20, would take the force from 13 detectives to 8.

The move comes as violent-crime rates are up and Harrisburg faces possible layoffs of police officers because of a budget crisis.

The proposed county cuts are raising concern among some law enforcement agencies that depend on the investigative unit for forensic expertise, help with child-abuse cases and other assistance.

"In terms of what CID does, it's very vital to some critical aspects of law enforcement throughout the county," said Robert Martin, Susquehanna Twp. police chief and president of the Dauphin County Chiefs of Police Association.

The unit helps prosecutors prepare cases for trial, investigates shootings by police officers and helps smaller police agencies handle major crimes. The unit is working with Steelton police on a homicide.

Among the programs that could be affected are the county's drug task force, Crime Stoppers, the Capital Area Forensic Unit, the accident-reconstruction team, child-abuse investigations and drunken-driving checkpoints, Marsico said.

"If you cut five people out of this unit, it's going to impact law enforcement in a negative way," he said.

Commissioner Jeff Haste said the board is trying to balance the needs of the district attorney's office with the needs of taxpayers. The unit is not a required service under the county code, he said, adding that the detectives' functions could be performed by local police departments.

Harrisburg has had a higher-than-average number of shootings this year. The city's violent-crime rate is among the highest in the state, exceeding that of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and even Los Angeles and New York City.

Faced with a $6.8 million budget gap, the city furloughed 37 managers and police cadets. Thirty-eight nonuniformed employees could be laid off in January if the budget impasse isn't broken by the mayor and City Council.

Mayor Stephen R. Reed has talked of laying off police officers if council does not approve his budget plan for next year.

In contrast to the city's situation, the commissioners recently touted the county's strong financial position, resulting in part from the pending sale of Spring Creek Rehabilitation and Health Care Center in Swatara Twp.

"Cutting police at a time when crime is on the rise does not make sense to me," Marsico said.

"It will impact us," Swatara Twp. Police Chief David Bogdanovic said. "Every agency in this county depends on them to some degree."

The impact would be greatest if the office no longer could administer programs that cross municipal lines, such as DUI checkpoints, the drug task force and forensics, Bogdanovic said.

"Without them, a lot of this will fall by the wayside. That's what we're worried about," he said.

The cuts are not definite. Haste said the board is talking with Marsico's office to find ways to improve efficiency.

The county is looking to shift money into a program called "J-net," a database that ties the county's police forces together. Building a uniform system that allows police to look up criminal information about suspects will increase costs, Haste said.

Democratic Commissioner George Hartwick III agreed that J-net will become a county priority but said he's not sure he will support unit cuts. "I would tend not to be as supportive of those cuts during a crime spree," he said.

But he's not ready to say whether he'll vote against the budget.

"I've been told by CID and Ed Marsico that I'll be hearing from them to make their case," Hartwick said. "I remain uncommitted to that issue until then."

[BuffaloBill]

Harrisburg and York are having their problems. Lancaster seems to stay out of the limelight, but for all I know, things may be negative there as well.

Harrisburg certainly seems to be the center of attention in this area as of late.

[Ex-Ithacan]

Not a good situation. Many (if not most) of the cities in the northeast (and probably midwest) are going through painful cuts in services and still needing to increase tax rates. Much of the problem is too many layers of government. Though I'm not sure Harrisburg , the townships, and Dauphin county consolidating would solve all this crap. I know NY state has pushed many of the mandated programs(ie. health care, retirement costs) and expenses back on the local jurisdictions. With a shrinking tax base (people and businesses leaving, and not being replaced with well paying jobs) the problems are not going to get any better. Sorry to sound so gloomy, but I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel for many of our once thriving NE communities.

[Evergrey]

very depressing... i always thought HBG was on the rebound since being named the "Most Depressing City" or something like that back in the 80s

[passdoubt]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Harrisburg has had a higher-than-average number of shootings this year. The city's violent-crime rate is among the highest in the state, exceeding that of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and even Los Angeles and New York City.

The fact that Hburg has a higher crime rate than "even" NYC should only surprise somebody who's been living under a rock for the past 50 years. The places with the highest crime rates in Pennsylvania are usually Chester, Reading, little old Darby, etc. This article's statement only makes sense if you believe the braindead idea that "big city" should mean "big crime rate," which hasn't been true for a while. Either that or the author doesn't understand how statistics work.

[donybrx]

I read things like this and these and consider how crime has been decimating these once fine cities and towns in PA and elsewhere only to come back to the conclusion that we have some big wars to fight right here at home.....requiring manpower and resources and attention to revive municipalites and to eradicate crime.....it calls for a kind of tough love and tough measures it seems or else the problems are gonna keep worsening. We need renewd infrastucture, top schools again......and some way of getting people to pull together in order to get our towns cities and lives back in order......trouble is....that kind of war doesn't turn a profit for the military-industrial establishment. Moreover, tackling problems for the common good is out of fashion...totally.

Once the lid came off greed in the 1980's that, as they say, was that.....

[Evergrey]

we also need a radically transformed system of municipal governance in PA... why are we so backwards!?

[bryson662001]

Originally Posted by BuffaloBill

Harrisburg and York are having their problems. Lancaster seems to stay out of the limelight, but for all I know, things may be negative there as well.

Harrisburg certainly seems to be the center of attention in this area as of late.

How ironic that Philly has a surplus.....again.

[danwxman]

What other city in Pennsylvania (sans the big ones like Philadelphia and Pittsburgh) is building a brand new 13-story hotel, 92' tall condo tower (with units starting at $300,000) and just started a university, with a new tower beginning construction in January, a new midtown campus of the area's community college under construction, and a new 215,000 square foot office complex on a former brownfield. Yes, the city is facing some major budgetary problems right now...taxes are going to go up, and crime is certainly the highest in a few years. But, economically..the city is doing better then ever, downtown is packed (hell I have fun every weekend) and in the hot neighborhoods in midtown houses only stay on the market for a few days before they are sold. No doubt Harrisburg has some major problems...but this ISN'T even close to the end of the city as we know it. Of course sprawl continues in the suburbs, and the retail market has exploded in the past couple years...but let's face it...that's a sign of how healthy the economy is in south central PA. People are earning more money, and richer migrants from the big cities are coming in...giving the population in this area much more discretionary income, which is why we are getting all the new upscale shopping and restaurant options that the big markets have had for years. In a lot of ways, the Harrisburg metro is finally "arriving."

[EastSideHBG]

/\
danwxman, while I appreciate what you are saying here, your picture is a little misleading to those not following these projects. First off, the condo towers, even though the height limit raising was approved, will still be met with much controversy over the razing of the mansions and many groups have already threatened litigation. Secondly, the HBG Univ. tower is now in jeopardy thanks to the screw up with the Parking Authority and it may not even get built if they can't figure it out.

I'm not trying to rain on the parade here, rather, to show that yes Harrisburg has some great things in the works. BUT, it is A) always met with some kind of goofy opposition and screw-ups and B) NOTHING is a done deal quite yet. If the projects you mentioned happen, it is years down the road before they are completed. How many more police will be laid off, how much worse will the violent crime get, etc., before then?

I do think Harrisburg can pick itself back up, and if things are done right, it will easily be looked at as PA's third city. But to get to that point I think city gov't needs a TOTAL overhaul, including a new mayor. Reed has done great things for the city no doubt, but he has overstayed his welcome IMO and there needs to be some new blood in there...

[Evergrey]

what mansions are being razed!?!?

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

what mansions are being razed!?!?

There was a group of them on Front St. IMO it was no big loss as many of them have had flood damage, and it was questionable on if they should still be standing anyway (the exteriors looked completely fine, though).

Okay, I just did some checking and it appears as if the condo project will now be located a few spots down and "next to" the Tracy Mansion in the 1800 block of Front St. The developer is saying she will not raise it but I think she did purchase it, so she can do whatever she wants in the end. To be honest, I think she is saying she won't touch it just to quiet the NIMBYs and will probably take it out in the end. Eh, time will tell I guess.

But they are not out of the woods yet. It appears as if the neighborhood is claiming the condo bldg. will "block their river views". Please keep in mind the houses there face south and the river is west of them. So...these people can't even see the damn river from their front doors anyway! Typical HBG and the people have to whine about something!

Oh and this condo bldg. will be right in the heart of the flood zone. Doesn't seem like a really good idea to me at all, as I am sure parking will be located on the lower floors...

[wrightchr]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

/\
danwxman, while I appreciate what you are saying here, your picture is a little misleading to those not following these projects. First off, the condo towers, even though the height limit raising was approved, will still be met with much controversy over the razing of the mansions and many groups have already threatened litigation. Secondly, the HBG Univ. tower is now in jeopardy thanks to the screw up with the Parking Authority and it may not even get built if they can't figure it out.

I'm not trying to rain on the parade here, rather, to show that yes Harrisburg has some great things in the works. BUT, it is A) always met with some kind of goofy opposition and screw-ups and B) NOTHING is a done deal quite yet. If the projects you mentioned happen, it is years down the road before they are completed. How many more police will be laid off, how much worse will the violent crime get, etc., before then?

I do think Harrisburg can pick itself back up, and if things are done right, it will easily be looked at as PA's third city. But to get to that point I think city gov't needs a TOTAL overhaul, including a new mayor. Reed has done great things for the city no doubt, but he has overstayed his welcome IMO and there needs to be some new blood in there...

dave...i don't think Reed is the problem. if anything, i think he's been a pretty good mayor in the past...and continues to be today. he's a indealist...but when it comes down to dollar figures...he's the realist. the issue isn't wild west artifacts, condos, high crime, or the new university...it's a political struggle between Reed's policies and agenda, and a few select city council members and various naysayers that stepped forward in the last citywide election. Reed's been the boss in town since the 1981...and i think that pisses a few people off. if individuals focus on a few important issues of recent...such as the spike in violent crime, then your really blinding yourself to overall success of the city and region over the last two decades. crime rates rise and fall over time...but there are many other accomplishments that give lasting defination to Harrisburg's revitalization. take a look at the recent graduation figures for Harrisburg high...is anyone amased??? the 300% jump in students graduating and many of them going on to college afterwards. this was unheard of just a few years ago. and Reed played a huge part making this happen. but to my knowledge, it isn't even mentioned on this forum. it's statistics like these that help to secure donations from people like Bill Gates, to help fund the new science/technology high school and university. sure Harrisburg has it's problems...every city in this nation does. but IMO, the positives envolved here...greatly outweigh setbacks in other areas. for every negative comment about Harrisburg's current financial/crime crisis...there are 10 positives to negate them.

[PaSkyX]

^Yet for all the positives, no one ever mentions the brain-drain taking place in the region. For me, and all of my close friends, the best way to make a better future was to leave Harrisburg, once and for all. You may combat this with whatever figures you like, but I have personal experience of many people leaving and not coming back. Harrisburg simply lacks those cultural experiences that would keep many people staying. Having some trashy nightlife (I can't be nice, sorry) isn't going to stimulate an intellectual community, though it may make downtown seem "alive". But I ask, where are the cafes? The galleries? Public transportation? There's nothing to make an intellectual desire to stay, especially in what many of my friends refer to as a "black hole".

[EastSideHBG]

I have to completely disagree, Chris. The HBG School District's graduation rate is a huge success and my hat is off to those involved. But other than that and for the last 5+ years, the Mayor has been screwing up big time...and his mistakes cost the city and taxpayers MILLIONS! Some examples are the incinerator, the Civil War Museum, Wild West Artifacts, etc. I will never downplay Reed's accomplishments and all that he has done for Harrisburg, and there is no doubting that he has done wonderful things. But I still stand by my statement and think his stay is now long overdue and there needs to be some new blood in there.

I completely agree, PaSkyX, especially about the trashy nightlife LOL

[danwxman]

Trashy nightlife? Not where I go.

PASkyX, I think every year more and more young people are staying in this area...and a lot of young couples are moving in as well. Things have changed a LOT in the past few years.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by danwxman

Trashy nightlife? Not where I go.

Of course there are *a few* places that aren't the norm, but overall, the nightlife in HBG caters to the lowest common denominator. That is most evident with places like "Big Cans".

PASkyX, I think every year more and more young people are staying in this area...and a lot of young couples are moving in as well. Things have changed a LOT in the past few years.

Who is staying? 90% of the people I know are now gone, and many of those who aren't are making plans to leave as we speak. Younger people I know who just graduated college this year are making plans to leave once they find a job someplace else (which is another example that HBG's economy needs to diversify big time). Now I'm not saying that everyone who leaves do so because they hate the place, but it matters not and the results in the end are the same.

Yes, I'm sure at one time 2 out of 10 people stayed and now 4 out of 10 stayed (for example) so there is an improvement, but the stats are still dismal and they are still showing a major brain drain. I'd love to see the area reverse this, but A LOT needs to change before young people feel inclined to stay/be drawn there.

[Evergrey]

I experienced 2-3 venues for pretty classy nightlife last time I was downtown... but perhaps my standards are lower

[wrightchr]

Originally Posted by PaSkyX

^Yet for all the positives, no one ever mentions the brain-drain taking place in the region. For me, and all of my close friends, the best way to make a better future was to leave Harrisburg, once and for all. You may combat this with whatever figures you like, but I have personal experience of many people leaving and not coming back. Harrisburg simply lacks those cultural experiences that would keep many people staying. Having some trashy nightlife (I can't be nice, sorry) isn't going to stimulate an intellectual community, though it may make downtown seem "alive". But I ask, where are the cafes? The galleries? Public transportation? There's nothing to make an intellectual desire to stay, especially in what many of my friends refer to as a "black hole".

the brain drain you mention, isn't just a central PA thing...it's been taking place all across PA for a very long time. and it's much more evident in NEPA and other areas outside of the state's urban centers. i would point out that certain projects, like the new university focused on science, math, and technology, is trying to counteract this.

nightlife is important...and i won't downplay its impact on the city, or the amount of money and commercial investment it's bringing to downtown. as far as galleries go??? Harrisburg has an art museum and several smaller galleries...could it do better...of course. but it's a start. public transportation is definately a key cornerstone to downtown's development, and i think your going to see more investment in it in the future...with the construction of corridorOne and corridorTwo...which will make Harrisburg one of the smallest urban centers with heavy commuter rail.

your intellectual desire to stay in the area may have deminished due to competing interests from the larger cities...but don't mistake central PA's staying power. the Harrisburg/York/Lancaster area is definately growing and pulling suburbanites from Baltimore/DC and the Philadelphia areas. as time goes on, the area will grow more sustainable cultural establishments. if you compare the regions assets to those of just 10 years ago...there would be no comparison. i suspect that in another 10 years...it will be more of the same. as far as your black hole analogy...there are many other places in PA that are far more worse off than Harrisburg. try living in Pottsville???

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

I have to completely disagree, Chris. The HBG School District's graduation rate is a huge success and my hat is off to those involved. But other than that and for the last 5+ years, the Mayor has been screwing up big time...and his mistakes cost the city and taxpayers MILLIONS! Some examples are the incinerator, the Civil War Museum, Wild West Artifacts, etc. I will never downplay Reed's accomplishments and all that he has done for Harrisburg, and there is no doubting that he has done wonderful things. But I still stand by my statement and think his stay is now long overdue and there needs to be some new blood in there.

i completely understand where your coming from Dave...and i agree with some of your points. but i believe in a different approach. your not going to get anywhere if you spend your time attacking the leadership...especially one which was again elected by an overwhelming majority. i really think that's where much of our nation has gone wrong of late. we spend all of our time and effort telling people how much things are screwed up and what's wrong with the city/state/country, etc....instead of trying to change things from the inside out. everyone talks about the negatives...but what are they really doing to improve things? apparently, the citizens of harrisburg felt Reed's ideas were on the right track.

[EastSideHBG]

your intellectual desire to stay in the area may have deminished due to competing interests from the larger cities...but don't mistake central PA's staying power. the Harrisburg/York/Lancaster area is definately growing and pulling suburbanites from Baltimore/DC and the Philadelphia areas. as time goes on, the area will grow more sustainable cultural establishments. if you compare the regions assets to those of just 10 years ago...there would be no comparison. i suspect that in another 10 years...it will be more of the same.

I see your point, but the issues I have with this is that these people are typically only in the HBG metro for cheaper housing and a "better" place to raise their kids. They really have no vested interest in the place, I doubt they get that heavily involved in things, and what do 20/30-somethings like this really contribute to an area? Most of them are content with a 9-5 job, a house and a yard and nothing more...they are settled. That is hardly the group that is going to be very proactive and swing the pendulum, and the HBG metro has more than enough of that as it is...

I see what you are saying, Chris, I really do re: the politics. But I lived (and worked I might add) in the city and was sure to vote in the last election. What choice did I have for Mayor besides Reed? NONE. He typically runs unopposed, and when he does have opposition, they are usually WAY out there and don't drum up any support for good reason.

And heck, to add insult to injury he even ran on the Rep. AND Dem. tickets last time around!

As far as City Council goes I ate my words on that one, I admit it. I really thought Miller, Kim, etc., were going to be much different than they actually ended up being. Looking back, I am sorry I voted for them in a way. And I say "in a way" because City Council needed to be shaken up anyway, as having the police being called because the Pres. and VP got into a fist fight is never a good thing...

The citizens in Harrisburg don't have good choices IMO. I still attribute all of this to the fact that those that really, really care about the place and could make a difference get disgusted and leave, moving to places where they really CAN make a difference and where people aren't afraid to think outside of the box and try new things...

Harrisburg isn't a total loss and there are some really great things about it. But being away for a bit now and in another part of the state, looking back on my life there and going back for a visit from time to time, I only see it being exactly what it is in our lifetime: mediocre.