Edmonton.....the boom that isn't!!!!

[liferanger]

This thread is intended to generate discussion from persons outside of the Edmonton area that have come to visit in the last couple of years.

I would like to hear your opinion about the so called "boom" that is occurring in Edmonton.

More specifically, my idea of a boom is seeing massive new skyscrapers, highrises and generally cranes all over the landscape. For the last number of years, Edmonton has been in the so called boom, yet has not had one single commercial highrise built in 16 years in Downtown. Several residential buildings have been built but nothing of quality compared to Vancouver or Calgary.

Visitors, tell me your thoughts!!!!

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by liferanger

More specifically, my idea of a boom is seeing massive new skyscrapers, highrises and generally cranes all over the landscape. For the last number of years, Edmonton has been in the so called boom, yet has not had one single commercial highrise built in 16 years in Downtown.

Isn't this all about to change though? I've heard of several proposed high-rise condo's going to be built within the city and possibly downtown.

BTW, I've only been here 3 years, and am still getting to know what the hell is happening in E-town, so count me as an out-of-towner for the sake of this thread lol.

[Xelebes]

The boom has been in the industrial sector, not the commercial sector. Right now the office space is being re-filled. We are seeing some new retrofits and Oxford is glumly beginning to look at a new tower or something as their property is getting too crowded for renovations. Though right now it has been mostly in the industrial sector. There has been lots of new warehouses popping up in the NW Industrial. Five years ago, what would have been fields have been new distribution centres, factories and the sort. You have a lot of smaller companies like Landtran Logistics building these new warehouses so they don't have large offices yet.

Right now we're seeing those mom-and-pop companies go public so we might see something new. Or we might see more massive warehouses and factories in this city.

[WhipperSnapper]

sad that you are so wrapped up in cranes and massive skyscrapers to see the amount of change going on around you - the downtown I saw 5 years ago was nothing like that I saw half a year ago

[CCF]

I haven't been to Edmonton in years. I drove past in 2003 on my way home from Yellowknife.

I'd like to get up there again soon.

[Kevin_foster]

Before discussion begins, everyone must pound this into their head:


Economic Boom != Skyscrapers.


What a horrible misconception, and we should all know better than that.

The amount of economic activity going on in and around this city is equal to Calgary's, take a look at both municipalities GDP. Edmonton is firing on all 12 cylinders.

To put it bluntly, alot of people believe a boom has to equal a (quoteth Murman) hard-on in the core. A Financial district is just one facet area of a city that can be affected by a boom. Here, so far alot has been been industrial. But things downtown are taking shape more and more every day.

[Edmonchuck]

Skyscrapers are only one part. Sunwapta is exploding, Windermere is exploding, Roper Road is exploding, the ERP is exploding, you name it, it is growing.

and yes, there will be at least one new tower, but remember that Edmonton's employment nodes are notoriously spread out, while Calgary made a decision to concentrate it downtown.

[big W]

Originally Posted by goodlookin'

sad that you are so wrapped up in cranes and massive skyscrapers to see the amount of change going on around you - the downtown I saw 5 years ago was nothing like that I saw half a year ago

I am in full agreement with you on this. Working downtown and being who stays after work you can tell the difference.

[Bassic Lab]

Originally Posted by Edmonchuck

Skyscrapers are only one part. Sunwapta is exploding, Windermere is exploding, Roper Road is exploding, the ERP is exploding, you name it, it is growing.

and yes, there will be at least one new tower, but remember that Edmonton's employment nodes are notoriously spread out, while Calgary made a decision to concentrate it downtown.

I agree, expecting a commercial boom impacting downtown office construction in Edmonton might be foolish. That said, I'm some what curious as to why the city seems to be a couple years behind Calgary in developing a demand for condos in the core. So far it seems that for both quantity and quality Calgary is a bit a head. I can't figure out why that is the case and it makes me curious.

[SpongeG]

from what i know - a lot of the people working in oil are from elsewhere - my brother works in northern alberta but his homebase is here in BC - all the people he works with also do not call alberta home or plan to - most are from the maritimes or manitoba, saskatchewan - they get flown in and out every few weeks - so the money they make is spent elsewhere

but the spin off that oil creates would create residents and needs etc. but they aren't the high paying oil jobs necessarily

and from what we hear outside of Edmonton - through friends, media etc Calgary seems to be the main focus of everything

[MolsonExport]

Was there not--until recently-- a huge surplus of Office space in the CBD, from the 80's? Same thing happened in Montreal and Toronto.

[gatt]

i never been to Edmonton but two of my construction workers friends moved up there 6 months ago and have no intention of moving back.they said they have years of work ahead of them.

[WHISTLERINMUSKOKA]

1. If you want quality you need to exonerate Pemberton Homes, they have yet to fabricate a nice residential tower.

2. If you desire more residential high-rises you need a population that is prepared to give up the big house in the country and that want to live in a more compact urban environment.

3. Office tower construction just won't happen on the scale it is in Calgary. Calgary has become the alpha city in your province much as Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver are the alphas in their provinces.

[feepa]

Calgary is the city that makes and plays with the Oil money.

Edmonton is the manafactures and creates any thing that needs to go up to the oil sands. Edmonton has a vast sector of employees in the manafucturing and construction related trades. Theres also the huge refinining and processing sector as well. All these trades jobs make a decent living for a lot of folk around here, but its certainly not office jobs and such that keeps this city going.

[feepa]

Originally Posted by WHISTLERINMUSKOKA

3. Office tower construction just won't happen on the scale it is in Calgary. Calgary has become the alpha city in your province much as Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver are the alphas in their provinces.

Edmonton has alot going on for it. Anyone who tries to deny that is someone who has never tasted whats going on here. I'll agree that Calgary is the financial and HQ city in this province, but that doesnt make Edmonton any less of a city then Calgary.

Edmonton is just as important to the Alberta economy as Calgary. Just in a different way.

[ExcaliburKid]

Thought I would add my 2 cents to this thread. As most have mentioned, Edmontons boom is largely industrial, and to prove that point I'm going to fill you in on some information I heard while at an MCA meeting last Weds. The guest speaker we had was a gentleman who negotiates with unions. He said the number of construction workers in AB peaked last year at 184,000, the highest number in AB history. He also made a point with a graph showing the "major" projects upcoming in AB, some approved, most proposed. Imagine, if you will, the scale of projects happening now in oil sands, and increase that by about 50-65 BILLION $. The point I'm getting at, is that a large number of those projects are slated for Sturgeon, Strathcona Counties, Edmonton, and Ft. Sask. The reason for this, said the guest speaker (Ive forgotten his name), is because trades-people are getting sick of the commute, in and out of Ft. Mac, and the companies are hearing this, and building the upgraders here. Another quick point to end this long winded rant, is that, unless the immigration laws are relaxed, there will be some postponements, or potentially cancellations of these goliath projects. There is just not enough of a workforce, and unless something changes, we could see this boom go bust.

[big W]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Was there not--until recently-- a huge surplus of Office space in the CBD, from the 80's? Same thing happened in Montreal and Toronto.

Yes the CBD had an office vacancy at 23% and the retail was 37%, which are now down to 4% and 10% respectively.

[Coldrsx]

" That said, I'm some what curious as to why the city seems to be a couple years behind Calgary in developing a demand for condos in the core. So far it seems that for both quantity and quality Calgary is a bit a head. I can't figure out why that is the case and it makes me curious."

demand is there and in the end Edmonton will have a larger core residential population due to the lack of office towers on a relative basis. Hell ICON I and II are in the middle of the downtown core....calgary CANT do that. However, design and material use is far ahead in calgary.

[Pegger5]

What are the companies that will drive growth in the core? What non Government (crown) head offices are in Edmonton? The only large ones I know of in Edmonton are PCL, Katz Group (Rexall) and maybe Stantec.

My point is: What companies will drive growth in the core so people will want to live in downtown Edmonton? When you have head offices downtown you have those higher paying exec jobs and more of a demographic that likes to live downtown...
I think until more HQ's move downtown Edmonton you will not see substantial condo growth in the Edmonton core

Edmonton is booming, no argument, but directly as an industrial and retail supplier to the Oil Sands. Excellent opportuntiy for trades people of all trades.

[ExcaliburKid]

^Canadian Western Bank