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  #201  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2007, 5:44 PM
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BINARY SYSTEM BINARY SYSTEM is offline
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Now come people,...gather around and look at the nice little buildings.







This one is nIce!





The best time to view the LMDC cam is early morning. It really sucks though...huh!


Last edited by BINARY SYSTEM; Feb 6, 2007 at 5:49 PM. Reason: Freedom Cam
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  #202  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2007, 1:58 AM
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Originally Posted by STERNyc View Post
Fitting for New York:



I think people forget how gigantic these buildings really are, primarily because they are so big. There's no sense of scale, but place 4 WTC in LA and it would eat up its skyline, place any of the other towers in any other American city other than Chicago and New York and it would completely devour it. One thing that I'm looking forward to the most is the awe-inspiring vistas these monoliths will provide looking through the concrete canyons of lower Manhattan.
What's really mind boggling is that Vornado is set to build a "Twin World Trade Center" uptown!

Forget Twin Towers... Twin Centers!
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Last edited by CoolCzech; Feb 7, 2007 at 2:24 AM.
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  #203  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2007, 2:59 AM
Daquan13 Daquan13 is offline
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That should make the ones who have been ranting and raving for the Twins happy.

And BTW, why is Libeskind still hanging around? Wasn't he thrown out of Ground Zero, s**tcanned and sent packing? I guess it's true about what they say. Cockroaches DO come back multiple times!

Last edited by Daquan13; Feb 7, 2007 at 12:10 PM.
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  #204  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2007, 3:18 AM
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With such a tower going in Manhattan, I wonder what the defensive measures will be that are installed?

Last edited by ATLksuGUY; Feb 7, 2007 at 7:12 PM. Reason: oops
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  #205  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2007, 12:31 PM
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NY Post

SAVING FREEDOM
WHY GOV. SPITZER SHOULD PUT PATAKI'S 'ICONIC' PLAN ON HOLD







February 7, 2007 -- FIVE and a half years late, Ground Zero is finally showing progress. The Port Authority is industriously building the east bathtub so developer Larry Silverstein can start work on towers 3 and 4. It's the right time for Gov. Spitzer to liberate Pataki's Pit from the Freedom Tower - a defeatist scheme inappropriate to today's resurgent Downtown.

Spitzer needn't outright kill the "iconic" edifice that's now the PA's to build and rent. He doesn't even have to meddle directly in its design (as his predecessor did, with disastrous results).

But the Freedom Tower needs a caring intervention - which means putting it on hold. Not forever; only until Silverstein's first two new office buildings are rising and on their way to being leased. They will bring world-class architecture (by Richard Rogers and Fumihiko Maki) and vibrant life into the hole. Just as important, they'll re-legitimize the site as a place to do business - something the Freedom Tower, for now, can't.

ESSENTIAL work on the Freedom Tower's underground infrastructure, now in progess, must be completed. It is absolutely necessary to finish that job (likely to take 18 more months) so that everything will be in place once above-ground construction is ready to start.

But let's hold up on leasing efforts and letting out any more contracts (beyond what's already committed), until we know exactly what we want a "Freedom Tower" to be.

Properly handled, it can be the most valuable property in the world by late 2009 or 2010. That's when steel for towers 3 and 4 will be filling the sky.

Those buildings will be among the largest and tallest in town, rising to 1,155 feet and 957 feet. Once they're under way in earnest, no one will any longer be able to say that Ground Zero is going nowhere (as this newspaper first accurately called it four years ago).

Moreover, the plan on the table - calling for all four Ground Zero office buildings to open around the same time - threatens a glut. With the "iconic" tower on hiatus, Silverstein can bargain with tenants able to pay market rents - without being undercut by Freedom Tower's subsidized prices.

DOUGLAS Durst, builder of 4 Times Square and the new One Bryant Park, is one of many developers who know the Freedom Tower should wait for Silverstein's towers to be under way - but one of the few willing to say so. In his view, "as the World Trade Center site gets developed and people see progress, the value of it will increase, just as the value of 7 World Trade Center increased as people saw it was being completed and occupied."

Now, maybe Durst would rather minimize competition with his own buildings (although he has no argument with the 4.5 million square feet that towers 2, 3 and 4 will bring to the market). Or maybe, like others in his league, he secretly dreams of one day having a crack himself at what should be the city's most desirable development site.

But his argument embraces the reality of Downtown today: It's one of the hottest business districts in the world, commanding office rents unimaginable a few years ago and drawing ever more people to glamorous new apartment buildings, hotels, parks and stores.

The Freedom Tower should be the exclamation point proclaiming the area's rebirth. But an exclamation point must come last, not first.

After all the delays at Ground Zero, it's worth waiting a few more years to get the site's crowning achievement right.

TODAY, nothing about the Freedom Tower is right. The PA has little more enthusiasm to build it than Silverstein did. The project as now conceived, designed and scheduled was born out of desperation and political expediency four years ago, when Downtown's plight looked desperate. No one had any idea how to rebuild the WTC. No one was sure if companies would ever again want to be there.

The infamous Daniel Libeskind master site plan (chosen by then-Gov. Pataki) called for an "iconic" tower to reclaim the skyline while also, somehow, relating to the Statue of Liberty. Absent any other serious planning at Ground Zero, and with Silverstein tapping accomplished architect David Childs for the project, it seemed a good idea at the time.

It might even have worked. But Pataki brought the scheme to ruin - by letting Libeskind "collaborate" on it, by personally interfering in the design and by causing a 14-month delay that resulted from his inattention to NYPD security concerns.

The result, after a rushed redesign in 2005, lacks the majesty of Childs' original. Yet cost estimates are already rising - to $3 billion, as The Post's Tom Topousis reported this week. And the design isn't even truly finished - plans for its most symbolic feature, a "sculptural" broadcast antenna rising to 1,776 feet above ground, are still mired in the early stages.

YET, despite its staggering cost, the PA is prepared to peddle the project on the cheap. To kick-start leasing, the PA is negotiating with the federal General Service Administration and the state Office of General Services to take about half its total 2.6 million square feet.

That was Pataki's last and perhaps most lethal blunder. If those deals go through, the PA will likely have to find even more government offices to fill the remaining half. Why? Because private-sector firms of the sort that should be at a "World Trade Center" don't want to share a building with public-sector bureaucracies paying subsidized rents. "Having government tenants will take away from the value being created," Durst warns.

THE starting rent for GSA and OGS, which wouldn't take effect until the tower opens at least five years out, is $58.50 per square foot - more than government should pay, but ridiculously low compared with what new, first-class Downtown office space is certain to command by 2012. (Many real-estate insiders believe the rent is really $50 a foot because, they say, the PA undercounted the floor space.) By comparison, Silverstein is asking more than $60 a foot today for the remaining floors at his new 7 WTC.

Why should the most important new building ever to rise in New York be peddled as if it's damaged goods?

Well, because the Freedom Tower now on the table is damaged goods to the corporate world and the real-estate community. Its tortured history enables the negativism of brokers and prospective tenants who claim, without any rational basis, that the tower's great height - maybe even its Orwellian name - will encourage terrorists to strike again.

But naysayers just a few years back told us all that no one would want to live anywhere Downtown, and that the new 7 WTC would never draw tenants. All it took to refute the cynics was for the first new residents and office tenants to break the ice. Today, every apartment nearby is taken, and 7 WTC is more than 60 percent leased.

So it will be with the Freedom Tower, once the first companies sign leases for towers 3 and 4 - projects with giant floor plates specifically tailored to Wall Street firms.

PAUSING the Freedom Tower entails risk: If any thing goes wrong with the other office buildings, we could be left right where we were before. But in a booming market, and with dire financial penalties if he stalls, Silverstein has every reason to build in a timely fashion.

With a little good will all around and some luck, the PA ought to be able to name its price for the Freedom Tower by 2010. It will find corporate tenants who can pay what an iconic location is worth. It's not too devilish to suggest that the PA might even want to put it up for bid to private developers - who, if recent history tells us anything, would go to war over the rights.

Who knows? A pause might even prompt Spitzer to finally drop "Freedom Tower" and call the project by its rightful name: 1 World Trade Center.
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  #206  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2007, 3:11 PM
Daquan13 Daquan13 is offline
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Why does Couzzo all of a sudden want the Freedom Tower stopped or put on hold, so that the Twins can be rebuilt? Haha!!

Not gonna happen.
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  #207  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2007, 3:41 PM
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Daquan, what you just did was pull a "straw man."

Definition: The arguer makes up a proposition never offered by their opponent (usually weaker than the true proposition) and then attacks it as if their opponent had offered that proposition. This is most common on Internet chat sites.

Did Cuozzo mention anything at all about the Twin Towers? No. Let me guess, as soon as you saw him say anything about impeeding the progress of the FT you immediately labelled him a "Freedom Tower hater" and decided not to actually read the article and think a little bit.

So, try again: re-read the article and comment on the substance of his argument. Does he not have a point that if holding off for a little while will mean the FT will have more value and perhaps won't have to be subsidized so much? Or is that premise flawed somehow? Does he not make another good point in that private tenants don't want to rent space in a "World Trade Center" where 70% of the tenants are wasteful bureaucrats? If Douglas Durst, an MVP-calibre developer if there ever was one, says doing these things hurts the value of the tower, don't you care about that?

Oh, that's right, none of that matters.. just "build the Freedom Tower!!" and everything else be damned. Given your recklessness towards this incredibly sensitive matter, I'm almost inclined to label you a... Freedom Tower hater!

Last edited by kznyc2k; Feb 7, 2007 at 3:46 PM.
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  #208  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2007, 5:31 PM
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Who knows? A pause might even prompt Spitzer to finally drop "Freedom Tower" and call the project by its rightful name: 1 World Trade Center.
Not to bring up the name controversy again......does the name world trade center make any sense......although it was meant to be, it never became a 'world trade center' more than any other complex.......now that the complex is broken up into public/private development and is not one cohesive project, the name is pointless
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  #209  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2007, 7:32 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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Originally Posted by kznyc2k View Post
Daquan, what you just did was pull a "straw man."

Definition: The arguer makes up a proposition never offered by their opponent (usually weaker than the true proposition) and then attacks it as if their opponent had offered that proposition. This is most common on Internet chat sites.

Did Cuozzo mention anything at all about the Twin Towers? No. Let me guess, as soon as you saw him say anything about impeeding the progress of the FT you immediately labelled him a "Freedom Tower hater" and decided not to actually read the article and think a little bit.

So, try again: re-read the article and comment on the substance of his argument. Does he not have a point that if holding off for a little while will mean the FT will have more value and perhaps won't have to be subsidized so much? Or is that premise flawed somehow? Does he not make another good point in that private tenants don't want to rent space in a "World Trade Center" where 70% of the tenants are wasteful bureaucrats? If Douglas Durst, an MVP-calibre developer if there ever was one, says doing these things hurts the value of the tower, don't you care about that?

Oh, that's right, none of that matters.. just "build the Freedom Tower!!" and everything else be damned. Given your recklessness towards this incredibly sensitive matter, I'm almost inclined to label you a... Freedom Tower hater!
I normally would never defend Daquan, but you guys just always seem to want to provoke him.

You clearly have no knowledge of argument seeing as how you cannot even identify an argument in the first place. Suggesting someone may have alterior motives (as Daquan just did) is in no way an argument. Therefore it is impossible for him to be making a straw man arguement since he is not making an arguement. You are just being obnoxious and trying to start another annoying arguement about nothing...
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  #210  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2007, 8:20 PM
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Cuozzo has been and continues to be a Silverstein crony but this takes the cake. Stop the FT so Silverstein won't have the competition for his own towers. Ha! What a joke.
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  #211  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2007, 9:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
NY Post
...
The Freedom Tower should be the exclamation point proclaiming the area's rebirth. But an exclamation point must come last, not first.
...
That may be true in sentences, but not for office buildings! (especially when we've already been waiting far too many years for the gap in the sky to be refilled).

This article talks as if all that matters is economics. What about the pyschological effects that seeing the FT go up will have on everyone?

Frankly, it's WAY too many years since 9/11 to even suggest delaying anything at all. As a NYer, I'm tired of waiting. Every day, I look at the Downtown tip of Manhattan and mutter to myself, "Any day now... any day." (well, I don't really mutter, I just think it ) Enough delays! Just build the darn thing! (And, frankly, in about 10 years, all this economic talk will be a thing of the past, as I'm sure by then, many companies will be climbing over themselves to be a part of FT.)
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  #212  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2007, 1:44 AM
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Cuozzo has been and continues to be a Silverstein crony but this takes the cake. Stop the FT so Silverstein won't have the competition for his own towers. Ha! What a joke.
Agreed.

My lower jaw dropped when I read his column today - suddenly THE tower all New York wants done as soon as possible should come LAST? And what the hell is wrong with federal agencies as tenants, anyway? What, federal workers aren't worthy of rubbing shoulders with greasy insurance salesmen?

The costs of the FT kept growing due to delays. There is no sense in creating even MORE delays, and inevitably HIGHER costs. The fact is, the FT hasn't even been built yet and ALREADY all the naysayers that said there was too much office space in NYC have been proven exactly 180 degrees WRONG.
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Last edited by CoolCzech; Feb 8, 2007 at 1:55 AM.
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  #213  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2007, 1:51 AM
Daquan13 Daquan13 is offline
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Originally Posted by kznyc2k View Post
Daquan, what you just did was pull a "straw man."

Definition: The arguer makes up a proposition never offered by their opponent (usually weaker than the true proposition) and then attacks it as if their opponent had offered that proposition. This is most common on Internet chat sites.

Did Cuozzo mention anything at all about the Twin Towers? No. Let me guess, as soon as you saw him say anything about impeeding the progress of the FT you immediately labelled him a "Freedom Tower hater" and decided not to actually read the article and think a little bit.

So, try again: re-read the article and comment on the substance of his argument. Does he not have a point that if holding off for a little while will mean the FT will have more value and perhaps won't have to be subsidized so much? Or is that premise flawed somehow? Does he not make another good point in that private tenants don't want to rent space in a "World Trade Center" where 70% of the tenants are wasteful bureaucrats? If Douglas Durst, an MVP-calibre developer if there ever was one, says doing these things hurts the value of the tower, don't you care about that?

Oh, that's right, none of that matters.. just "build the Freedom Tower!!" and everything else be damned. Given your recklessness towards this incredibly sensitive matter, I'm almost inclined to label you a... Freedom Tower hater!


I read the article and yes you're right, he didn't mention anything about the Twins, and who's to say that he ISN'T thinking about them? Haha!!

Who in the Sam Hill wants to wait any longer for the tower to start being, or be built after waiting for five long years and being forced to put up with Pataki's mind games, along with him giving us all false starts, false hopes and empty promises on the tower's constr. start?

He ran yet another fast one when he had those 6 or 7 steel columns put up, knowing full well that the steel won't start coming above street level until sometime next year. So in a way, this is yet another false start that he threw on everyone!! Of course, the core has to be partially built at least, so that the steel beams and girders can be fastened to it.

I for one, and I'm quite sure that others will agree with me also, think that it's high time that they finally just get off that high horse of theirs and get the towers in the skyline. Stop wasting the taxpayers' money and give everyone what they promised a new WTC!

As CoolCzech once said in an eariler post, "just finally build the damn thing already!!"
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  #214  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2007, 1:56 AM
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Cuozzo has been and continues to be a Silverstein crony but this takes the cake. Stop the FT so Silverstein won't have the competition for his own towers. Ha! What a joke.
I'd say the fact Silverstein is worried about the FT being competition for his own towers gives the lie to the assertion the FT is not commercially viable.
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  #215  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2007, 1:06 PM
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Every day, I look at the Downtown tip of Manhattan and mutter to myself, "Any day now... any day."
Ditto. I need the void in downtown filled. When I was a kid in Jersey, I use to use the towers as a reference point to figure out what direction I was going in. I don't see downtown nearly as often now, but when I do, I keep hoping see some steel rising.
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  #216  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2007, 1:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CitySkyline View Post
That may be true in sentences, but not for office buildings! (especially when we've already been waiting far too many years for the gap in the sky to be refilled).

This article talks as if all that matters is economics. What about the pyschological effects that seeing the FT go up will have on everyone?
That's true. The Freedom Tower is being built basically to restore the city's skyline with an "iconic" tower, its not about economics. Which is why everyone was suggesting that Silverstein forget about profits and just build the tower. Now with the PA involved, suddenly everyone wants to just look at the pricetag.

The tower will be built as planned.
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  #217  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2007, 1:18 PM
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I'd say the fact Silverstein is worried about the FT being competition for his own towers gives the lie to the assertion the FT is not commercially viable.
Silverstein isn't worried about the Freedom Tower being completed. In fact, he was the one that sent Vantone there, away from 7 WTC. And Silverstein is also building the tower. The only concerns over Freedom Tower have come from the Port Authority, the agency that never wanted anything to do with it in the first place.
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  #218  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2007, 1:29 AM
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Photos taken in January

















The WTC site overall is very busy:

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Last edited by NYguy; Feb 10, 2007 at 1:48 AM.
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  #219  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2007, 6:42 AM
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I love these pictures! Thank you really much NYguy!
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  #220  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2007, 8:23 AM
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If I was Adam Sandler and I still had that remote I would use it to see this complex.....
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