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  #2421  
Old Posted: Jan 22, 2008, 7:15 PM
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That sounds really disturbing. Is it exaggerated?

It is understood that in most cases debris and crushed body parts were meshed together too badly to separate, but come on! The un-separable recycled parts should be used in re-building the WTC, creating the memorial, or left alone. I can't imagine anyone would knowingly use human-contaminated compost to fill pot holes.
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  #2422  
Old Posted: Jan 22, 2008, 8:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhxSprawler View Post
That sounds really disturbing. Is it exaggerated?

It is understood that in most cases debris and crushed body parts were meshed together too badly to separate, but come on! The un-separable recycled parts should be used in re-building the WTC, creating the memorial, or left alone. I can't imagine anyone would knowingly use human-contaminated compost to fill pot holes.
I think they did what they could to find what they did. If it was decided that every fragment had to be removed before any removal or revitalization work could begin, then the site would look today as it did the day of the tragedy (and will continue to for many years to come). There just comes a point where finding finger bones in such a large site filled with millions of square feet worth of debris is just not practical.

When the debris was moved to Fresh Kills in Staten Island, every load of it was but on an assembly line and sorted through before final discard. This procedure enabled the removal of debris from the site and still allowed the search of remains (only off site). So Rudy isn't the devil they are making him out to be.

As far as these discovered remains are concerned, I don't doubt that there are still hundreds if not thousands of tiny remains scattered throughout downtown (in street cracks, on roofs, etc..). When the towers collapsed, much of the debris was blown throughout Downtown and into the Hudson and East Rivers. The point is, what remains for the most part is absent to the naked eye. You may not see it, but it is there.
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  #2423  
Old Posted: Jan 22, 2008, 8:47 PM
Daquan13 Daquan13 is offline
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What are they waiting for to move the old WTC stairs?

I thought Tower 2 was supposed to be getting underway in that spot.
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  #2424  
Old Posted: Jan 22, 2008, 8:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhxSprawler View Post
That sounds really disturbing. Is it exaggerated?

It is understood that in most cases debris and crushed body parts were meshed together too badly to separate, but come on! The un-separable recycled parts should be used in re-building the WTC, creating the memorial, or left alone. I can't imagine anyone would knowingly use human-contaminated compost to fill pot holes.
Just because I posted the article doesn't mean I necessarily agree with the statements in it. Most bodies were utterly pulverized, and the sort of remains we're talking about were small chips of bone... we're not talking anything like a "body," or even a skeleton. Most of the debris in the aftermath of the attacks was shipped off to a landfill in New Jersey... no doubt, some of those chips of bones wound up there. That any of the material was used to "fill potholes" seems unlikely, a bit of hyberbole by some guy trying to make his point that (presumably) he doesn't want to see the WTC site redeveloped.
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  #2425  
Old Posted: Jan 22, 2008, 10:25 PM
Realthang Realthang is offline
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Originally Posted by Daquan13 View Post
What are they waiting for to move the old WTC stairs?
There is work currently going on in regards to the stairs. They are surrounding the stair treads with a steel framework. When complete, the steel framework and the treads will be removed. The remaining structure will be demolished.
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  #2426  
Old Posted: Jan 22, 2008, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by CoolCzech View Post
bostonnow.com

According to sources from the Port Authority Police Department, two more body fragments of 9/11 victims were found at Ground Zero

According to sources from the Port Authority Police Department, two more body fragments of 9/11 victims were found at Ground Zero this past week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM8II5dl0Js

According to sources from the Port Authority Police Department, two more body fragments of 9/11 victims were found at Ground Zero this past week.

According to the confidential source information to the finding is being kept secret because of scrutiny regarding rebuilding effort taking place at Ground Zero.

Currently Ground Zero is a huge construction site, where the city plans on building its Freedom Tower. The footage that was shot on Saturday January 19th inside Ground Zero depicts construction workers working overtime on the freedom tower, which is set to be finished in 2012.

What the general public fails to grasp is that Ground Zero is a memorial site for over 3,000 families. Around 45 percent of the victims of 9/11 were never discovered. While unidentified body parts are still being discovered to this day more than 6 years later.

This current situation is attributed to Rudolph Giuliani’s scoop and dump policy which threw away 45 percent of the remaining undiscovered family members into the fresh kills land fill in Staten Island. It was later reported by the AP that the remains were then recycled and used to fill up pot holes in NYC streets.

Rudolph Giuliani implemented his policy after the gold of the Nova Scotia was found at Ground Zero in 2001 on All Saint’s day. After the gold of Nova Scotia was discovered Rudolph kicked firefighters off the pile and implemented the scoop and dump policy. Many firefighters in outrage protested and were even arrested when finding out Giuliani’s decision to scoop and dump their fallen brothers.

Rudolph, who was formally a federal prosecutor, should know something about keeping evidence at a crime scene his actions speak for themselves. While he is using 9/11 as a platform for the presidential election he should think twice about mentioning his actions as mayor.

Manny Badillo lost his uncle Thomas J. Sgroi in the twin towers stated “It was one of the worst, disrespectful things you could possibly do to anyone who lost someone.”

The real important question to ask is if there will be DNA testing done on the newly discovered body fragments or will the city do what they did before and throw the remains into the garbage, recycle them and use them to fill up pot holes?
Is this what they call a news article in Boston? It reads like an editorial.
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  #2427  
Old Posted: Jan 23, 2008, 1:36 AM
ramvid01 ramvid01 is offline
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Tower 2 will not start construction until 6 moinths from now or so.
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  #2428  
Old Posted: Jan 23, 2008, 1:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Apex View Post
Is this what they call a news article in Boston? It reads like an editorial.

It is oddly written. But all the "sources" it mentions made it seem like it was written by a journalist, even if it was pushing a point of view.
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  #2429  
Old Posted: Jan 23, 2008, 11:59 PM
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Does anyone know if any TV companies are producing a documentary such as "the building of the freedom tower" etc, that will show the process and troubles throught construction?
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  #2430  
Old Posted: Jan 24, 2008, 6:19 AM
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  #2431  
Old Posted: Jan 24, 2008, 8:23 AM
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Great photo updates.
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  #2432  
Old Posted: Jan 24, 2008, 8:40 PM
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First visit to this board and it's a very interesting thread going on here.
As far as body parts. They did what they could but in real world praticalities the site needs to be rebuilt and life must go on. Not to get morbid, but we all die and personally I'll be cremated. I don't much care what happens to my body after it's over.

Most journalism these days has an agenda. In this case it looks to discredit Gulliani. As a personal note, many people including me see Gulliani as a good man and a hero.
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  #2433  
Old Posted: Jan 25, 2008, 3:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolCzech View Post
bostonnow.com

What the general public fails to grasp is that Ground Zero is a memorial site for over 3,000 families. Around 45 percent of the victims of 9/11 were never discovered.

This current situation is attributed to Rudolph Giuliani’s scoop and dump policy which threw away 45 percent of the remaining undiscovered family members into the fresh kills land fill in Staten Island. It was later reported by the AP that the remains were then recycled and used to fill up pot holes in NYC streets.
HOLLY SH*T!!!
Is this for real? I must be a part of that general public that never knew that 45% was never discovered... and I only live some 80 miles away in Philly...
That is absolutely nuts!!!
Don't take me wrong, I am all for the new tower though... The sooner the better, imho...
I am definitely going to ask around my office tomorrow as well as my friends to see if they knew these horrible stats...
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  #2434  
Old Posted: Jan 25, 2008, 4:43 PM
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Off Topic:
FYI
BostonNow is not a 'real' newspaper.

It's a freebie handed out on the T and consists mainly of poorly rewritten AP articles and content provided by 'online contributors' (blogs).

It makes the Metro (the other daily freebie) look like the NYT.
How it remains in business is a great mystery.

Sorry for the threadjack.
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  #2435  
Old Posted: Jan 25, 2008, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by vmx View Post
HOLLY SH*T!!!
Is this for real? I must be a part of that general public that never knew that 45% was never discovered... and I only live some 80 miles away in Philly...
That is absolutely nuts!!!
Don't take me wrong, I am all for the new tower though... The sooner the better, imho...
I am definitely going to ask around my office tomorrow as well as my friends to see if they knew these horrible stats...
Most of the people who died were above the impact zone so many of them may have been cremated by fires that reached 1800ºF and will never be recovered.
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  #2436  
Old Posted: Jan 25, 2008, 8:26 PM
Daquan13 Daquan13 is offline
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Originally Posted by Realthang View Post
There is work currently going on in regards to the stairs. They are surrounding the stair treads with a steel framework. When complete, the steel framework and the treads will be removed. The remaining structure will be demolished.


Are they restoring the stairs back to the time before 09-11?
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  #2437  
Old Posted: Jan 25, 2008, 8:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vmx View Post
HOLLY SH*T!!!
Is this for real? I must be a part of that general public that never knew that 45% was never discovered... and I only live some 80 miles away in Philly...
That is absolutely nuts!!!
Don't take me wrong, I am all for the new tower though... The sooner the better, imho...
I am definitely going to ask around my office tomorrow as well as my friends to see if they knew these horrible stats...
Are you serious? Whoever wrote that article basically made up the worst story they could think of and then printed it. I'm sure the city of New York knowingly recycled body parts to fill potholes....sometimes I wonder whether or not people think before forming opinions. And don't even get me started on the "World Trade Center conspiracy" people.
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  #2438  
Old Posted: Jan 27, 2008, 8:19 PM
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Originally Posted by gttx View Post
Are you serious? Whoever wrote that article basically made up the worst story they could think of and then printed it. I'm sure the city of New York knowingly recycled body parts to fill potholes....sometimes I wonder whether or not people think before forming opinions. And don't even get me started on the "World Trade Center conspiracy" people.
/agree

Show me proof from unbiased sourceS of WTC victims in potholes, and then I might believe it. As for remains still at the site, that's believeable and unavoidable. With the sheer magnitude of the 9-11 WTC collapse, it wouldn't surprise me if there were remains >100 feet below the street still.

Anyhow, I'm looking forward to seeing the FT pop it's head above street level. It'd be interesting to know the materials and construction methods they'll use to strenghten the base of the tower against future potential terrorist attacks. The base of the rendoring looks like that's what they're doing.
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  #2439  
Old Posted: Jan 29, 2008, 1:51 PM
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http://www.nysun.com/article/70328

Highest Eatery May Top Freedom Tower

By PETER KIEFER
January 29, 2008


The Freedom Tower will be topped by New York City's highest restaurant, a 34,000-square-foot space on the 100th and 101st floors that the Port Authority, which owns the tower, yesterday offered up to entice interest among potential operators.

The Port Authority's request for expression of interest for a restaurant and banquet space high in One World Trade Center is already eliciting commentary from New York's top restaurateurs and real estate analysts.

A co-owner of Nobu, Drew Nieporent, said the attacks of September 11, 2001, had a lasting effect on the mentality of diners. About 150 restaurant employees and guests at Windows on the World were killed in the attack.

"I'm not advocating that it's the best idea, I think it has to sink in a little," he said. Of the terrorist enemy, he said: "You know, these people could do just about anything, they can be very creative and it doesn't just have to be something in a tall building. If they want to wreak havoc, a public space is better where there's a large congregation of people."

The Port Authority says it is hoping to create "one of the best-located and most well known dining establishments in the world," and the available space would appear, at least on paper, to have all the desired trappings sought by an ambitious restaurant or event space owner. There is the 360-degree view of New York City and the Hudson and East rivers on two separate floors, one of which is located adjacent to the public observation deck. There are five express elevators and the state of the art facilities that the Freedom Tower will offer when completed. Lower Manhattan has gone through a recent economic boom, with the average salary of residents there at almost twice the median of the typical New York City resident.

But the proposition of renting such a unique space at such an extreme height on soil with such a history could pose a number of challenges.

"Every floor you go above sidewalk level makes it more difficult," the owner of the River Café, Michael "Buzzy" O'Keeffe, said. "If you had only one floor like that — in a city like New York — it would probably be a big tourist attraction. But there are many floors like that here. There are many big tall buildings with tall views," he said, adding that "it was not easy to make Windows on the World work."

The new space is actually several floors lower than Windows on the World, which occupied the 106th and 107th floors of the North Tower of the World Trade Center. That restaurant, while not particularly well respected among food critics — at least by New York dining standards — was nevertheless one of the world's highest-grossing restaurants. According to a 2001 article in The New York Times the restaurant was making $24 million a year in the late1980s.

There have been numerous delays in the reconstruction plans of ground zero, so another problem posed is timing. According to the request for expressions of interest, the premises would not be delivered to any prospective tenant before the summer of 2012, and an opening could not occur before 2013 at the earliest.

"Our surveys show that the diners in New York change their attitudes, their cuisines change, trends in restaurants and where they're located change yearly. So to predict what's going to be good location seven to ten years from now is difficult to say," a spokesman for the Zagat survey, Michael Mahle, said.

An executive vice president at Newmark Knight Frank, Jeffrey Roseman, said the space would be "for a special sort of operator."

"It is an event restaurant space more than anything else," he said. "These are the kind of places you take your grandma on her birthday. I mean, how many times did you go to Window on the World? For special anniversaries and parties."

Mr. Roseman and Mr. O'Keeffe both said they did not see September 11 and the emotions that come with it as a threat to a restaurant in the space.

"The hole has so much press, so the building will have so much press, and it would certainly probably be the most publicized building on earth," Mr. O'Keeffe said.

"So I guess then it will lend itself to being visited by an untold number of people. So even though the other conditions might hold for a normal building, this one, because of all the press it is likely to get, will probably be a big tourist place."
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  #2440  
Old Posted: Jan 29, 2008, 1:58 PM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/29/ny...on&oref=slogin

Developer Sought for Restaurant in Freedom Tower


By DAVID W. DUNLAP
January 29, 2008

For the price of a meal, Windows on the World atop 1 World Trade Center offered diners a spot in the stratosphere, a spot that was lost — along with so much else — on Sept. 11, 2001.

“It may be merely a footnote to a national calamity,” William Grimes, then a restaurant critic for The New York Times, wrote a week later, “but the collapse of the World Trade Center’s two towers ended an era in New York City dining.”

On Monday, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which is building the new 1 World Trade Center (also known as the Freedom Tower), set out to find whether anyone wants to try to revive that era.

It issued what is called a request for expressions of interest from developers who would design, construct, operate and manage a 34,000-square-foot restaurant on the 100th and 101st floors of the new tower.

The space, commanding a 360-degree panorama nearly 1,250 feet above street level, would be served by as many as five express elevators.

The grand opening is planned for early 2013.

The restaurant operator may also be chosen to run the 24,000-square-foot observation deck on the 102nd floor.


But a question posed by Mr. Grimes yet to be answered:

“Will diners ever again find that perspective enchanting?” he wrote more than six years ago, and added, “Exhilaration has now become too closely interwoven with terror.”

___________________________________

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01292008...der_135908.htm

FREEDOM TOWER EATERY WILL BE TALL ORDER

By TOM TOPOUSIS
January 29, 2008

Talk about high-end dining.

Evoking memories of the World Trade Center-topping Windows on the World, the Port Authority yesterday unveiled plans to lure a restaurant and banquet hall to the upper decks of the Freedom Tower.

The new restaurant will be located on the 100th and 101st floors with wrap-around views of the city and points far beyond, making it the highest restaurant in America, as was its WTC predecessor.

The eatery will sprawl over 34,000 square feet, larger than all but a few city restaurants, and it will be located directly below the tower's observation deck.

With the tower set to be finished in 2012, PA officials are trying to get a head start on the restaurant, putting out a formal request for expressions of interest while construction of the 1,776-foot-tall tower has yet to reach street level.

The PA expects the landmark restaurant to be open in early 2013.

"This is another step forward in the redevelopment of the historic site. The Freedom Tower is an iconic structure that calls for a world-class dining destination," said PA spokesman Steve Coleman.

In its pitch for restaurant operators, the PA is billing the new dining spot as positioned to be "one of the best and most well-known dining establishments in the world." Before the Sept. 11 terror attacks, Windows on the World was the highest grossing restaurant in the nation, with a reported $37 million in business in 2000.


The tower's restaurant would be served by five dedicated express elevators running directly from the lobby.

No name or theme has been chosen for the restaurant. PA officials expect to work out those details with a prospective operator.

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Quote from the Star Ledger:
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/200...plans_for.html

The dining areas will be 1,241 feet and 1,254 feet above street level.
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Last edited by NYguy; Jan 29, 2008 at 2:15 PM.
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