Don't you think some people who switch parties are Idiots??

[LordMandeep]

Belinda switched and it was not really a bad move. In 2004 she won by a close margin, so when she switched her popularity let her win easily.

However Emerson and Khan are a much different story.

In Emerson's riding the Conservatives came in third place behind the NDP and over 11,000 votes behind the Liberals. Do you think he could bring 11,000 votes to his party.

Khan is in the Liberal heartland of the Greater Toronto area. He won by 6,000 votes. The conservatives across the GTA actually finished closer to the liberals but thats because they were on a high of support. That imo has ended and don't think his name only can bring 6,000 votes to the conservatives.

Like think about it if your in a riding in rural Alberta and you switch to the Liberals do you think you will win??If your a liberal in the heart of an anglo Montreal riding and switch to the Bloc, do you think you would win??

[The Chemist]

Khan's crossing the floor has very little to do with him and a lot to do with Dion, IMO. If Dion hadn't forced Khan out, he wouldn't have had to cross the floor. Crossing the floor for Khan was a matter of principle, and I applaud him for it. I hope the people of his riding realize this and vote for him again in the next election.

[shreddog]

Well to tell you the truth, I thought some people were idiots before they switched parties (Belinda) and even those that haven’t switched parties (Hedy), but as for Emerson and Khan, both appear to be very intelligent, sane and logical people, so no I don’t think they are idiots.

In the case of Emerson, he is a very educated and experienced manager and leader (ex-CEO of Canfor), so I think that there are very valid reasons he switched. He has pretty much stated that it is not his intention to seek re-election (said even before the election) and people who know himsay that the cause that was most dear to him was resolving the softwood lumber situation - which he was trying to do in the Libs last days. Given his background, this is not hard to understand. As such, many people believe that communications between Emerson and the Conservatives transpired that if they (the Cons) wanted a rep in Vancouver, he could be available as long as he got Industry and the mandate to resolve the SWL disagreement. Say what you will about the final agreement, it did get solved (something the Libs didn’t accomplish) and he can now return back to industry knowing he accomplished something.

As for Khan, Chemist said it best. The Cons had reached out across party lines to a member of the opposition to help them in Muslin/Asian countries. Khan rose above politics and did what he thought best for the country. Dion called him on this and it backfired. Dion has shown him to be a lacky of the old partisan political ways and insists that the good of the Liberals is more imporant than the good of the country. The funny thing is had this been left alone, Khan would have still won the seat for the Liberals next election and since only about 5 people in Canada knew about him helping out the Cons, if Dion had keep his mouth shut, the general populace would have been none the wiser. Personally I think the real loser here is Dion as he has shown his arrogance and pettiness.

As for what will happen next election, who can tell? I have seen the meltdown of both the Liberals and Conservatives in the past, so I will only make my predictions after the votes have been counted.

BTW, I will still work for and vote for the Greens in the next election, but personally, watching how the Libs handled the Khan situation would ensure that I didn’t vote for them (as long as Dion is around).

[MistyMountainHop]

I live in Emerson's riding and I can safely say that almost everyone (including myself) think hes a complete idiot. This riding hasn't voted Conservative in over 50 years and it will certainly continue that way.

[LordMandeep]

You do not live in his riding (i live beside it). His muslim "brothers" his main support are pissed and they are the ones that would never vote conservative.

PLus Khan is not a great man. He ran away from the Pakistan army during a war. Conservatives in the West and others who live thousands of KM from his riding may applaud but his main support the south asian community wants his head. Like it may be "honourable" but it will be costly and in the end i really think its stupid.

I gurantee he will lose, i know Khans riding, they are not happy.

Khans reputation is damaged where it counts his riding, however he can seek some pleasure that he is liked by Conservatives from far far away.


This is a poltical divide here.
Conservatives to Liberals, liberals love him.
Liberal to Conservative, Conservative love him.

[samne]

As for Khan, Chemist said it best. The Cons had reached out across party lines to a member of the opposition to help them in Muslin/Asian countries. Khan rose above politics and did what he thought best for the country.

Please. They reached out to him for Muslim Asian votes in the GTA. Theyre trying anything to break into the suburban Toronto. Just the same way they are trying to get the Jewish votes in suburban Toronto with their Pro-Israel stand in the summer.

As for Khan doing whats best for the country. Apparently you dont know the man, he's a cheap car salesman and an opportunist.

[LordMandeep]

and he went Awol from Pakistan...

The Cons tried to please Quebec. It hasn't worked as much as they wnated. They know going to try get the immigrant vote, but the whole Isreal war has sent Muslims here far away from Conservatives.

Like Emerson and Khan are in Liberal dominated areas. Belinda was in Liberal/Cons area. They have no chance and Belinda had starw power and lots and lots and lots of support and money for her election. Emerson and Khan are nobodies. They have to bring like over 6,000 to over 11,000 votes to thier side alone.

Anyways the best conservatives imo are conservative in a minority govt. I think me and many here in The GTA will do anything to prevent a Cons Majoirty.

[Bassic Lab]

Dion did the right thing. The entire point of having an opposition is not to have it serve the government, it is meant to oppose it. Khan evidently did not understand this principle of the Westminster system. He wanted to feel all special, advising the PM and writing government reports, while being in the opposition, but it just doesn't work that way. The Liberals are not in coalition with the Tories, this is not a unity government, this should not happen.

Why does every one love the concept of bipartisanship these days? Parliament is supposed to be partisan.

Harper is really showing himself to be one of the best tacticians Parliament has seen. He seems to be coming out ahead from most of these things. I wonder how the electorate will react, in many instances they seem to see things as dirty tricks, Vancouver Kingsway being particularly pissed.

[ArchiCAD]

Originally Posted by shreddog

Well to tell you the truth, I thought some people were idiots before they switched parties (Belinda) and even those that haven’t switched parties (Hedy), but as for Emerson and Khan, both appear to be very intelligent, sane and logical people, so no I don’t think they are idiots.

In the case of Emerson, he is a very educated and experienced manager and leader (ex-CEO of Canfor), so I think that there are very valid reasons he switched.

So when talking about floor crossers Emerson is smart becasue he managed a company, but Belinda Stronach is an idiot because she managed a company...

Can someone translate this for me.

[LordMandeep]

Conservatives to Liberals, liberals love him.
Liberal to Conservative, Conservative love him.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by ArchiCAD

So when talking about floor crossers Emerson is smart becasue he managed a company, but Belinda Stronach is an idiot because she managed a company...

Can someone translate this for me.

Umm, look at what they have done with their lives.

Emerson - PhD in Economics, ex-President and Chief Executive Officer of the Western and Pacific Bank of Canada, ex-Deputy Minister of Finance (BC), ex-Deputy Minister to the Premier (BC), ex-President of the British Columbia Trade Development Corporation, ex-President and ex-CEO of Vancouver International Airport Authority, ex-Pres and CEO of Canfor (one of Canada's larget forest companies).

Belinda - daughter of the founder of Magna founder Frank Stronach, dropped out of York U business after 2 years. Ex-member of the board of directors of Magna, ex VP of Magna, ex-Pres of Mgna, ex-board chair of Magna subsiduaries Decoma, Tesma and Intier. While she is fluent in German and helped found the Conservatives, I think comparing her business creditionals and that of Emerson is a bit of stretch (to say the least).

Anway, Emerson appears to have no plans to run again, so what does he care? As I said above, there is enough info out there that indicates that this man wanted to resolve the SWL dispute, regardless of whatever party he would have to be in. While an opportunist, at least that can be respected.

As for Khan, don't know him from boo, and while he will likey lose as a Con next election, the truth is that Dion looks like the fool. Again, no one in Canada even knew about this before Dion made it an issue. Regardles of whether there should be partisan or bi-partisan activities in Parliament, Dion comes across looking like an argogant, self-serving leader.

And finally, LM, I am neither a Con or a Lib (reread my post and my signature) but as an unbiased bystander IMHO Dion and the Libs look bad on Khan, and Emerson looks no worse than Belinda or Brisson.

PS, ArchiCAD, though I have never Emerson, I have met Belinda and even had a brief "chat" with her for about 30 seconds. Thought she was an idiot then - still do.

[vid]

Coming from someone who's MP switched from Progressive Conservatives to Liberal to get elected (Conservatives will never get elected here because of our rampant socialism, but oddly, a conservative that calls himself a liberal is welcomed with open arms.) I probably don't deserve a say in this, but I'll say something anyway.

If you voted for Emerson in the first place, how is he an idiot now that he is a conservative? Do you mean to tell me that a (to quote the above members) 'complete idiot', as marmorek said of Emerson; 'not a great man', as LordMandeep said about Khan; 'cheap car salesman and an opportunist', as samne said of Khan; 'nobodies', as LordMandeep said of both; can get elected as Liberals, but not as a conservative?

So what; We can only vote for idiots if they run as Liberals? That seems kind of, I don't know, STUPID to me.

If Emerson was a complete idiot, he wouldn't have been elected, regardless of party affiliation. Liberal or Conservative, he is the same person. Many people, like myself, fall between the Liberals and Conservatives on many issues, so people like me, and both MPs from my city, will have their support split between both parties. And, just perhaps, we might vote for the other party once in a while. Who knows?

The Liberal Party had a say in Government affairs, especially foreign policy, and they gave that up. Khan's 'defection' speaks more of the Liberal party than it does of Khan himself. If it wasn't for misguided Liberal voters he wouldn't have been in parliament in the first place.

"The entire point of having an opposition is not to have it serve the government, it is meant to oppose it."

The Opposition is a counter balance to hold the current government accountable to their actions. The Opposition party raises issues it feels the government is neglecting or looking too much into, and, in a perfect world, would make them change their policy. The entire point of having an opposition IS to have it serve the government, not for the governing parties good, but for the peoples. It is an essential part of our democracy and without it, the conservatives would likely have even more power than they do now.

[LordMandeep]

The truth is unless you are a high profile person you likely win because you belong to a certain party. When you swicth sides, that is when more and more people focus on the person.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Emerson might not be an idiot- but he is a traitor who has guaranteed that he will never, ever, ever again hold public office in his riding.

[LordMandeep]

Serious Emerson defected to a party which finished in third place...

Atleast Belinda riding it was only 1000 votes difference.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by furrycanuck

Emerson might not be an idiot- but he is a traitor who has guaranteed that he will never, ever, ever again hold public office in his riding.

But he resolved the softwood lumber dispute, which is far more important than winning a political posting.

[ArchiCAD]

He didn't resolve it.
He gave away money.

If someone steals your car and returns it with the doors missing, the problem is not resolved.

[trueviking]

good one^

i dont even get how normal people change their minds....how do you change what you believe.

it is more amazing that someone who took the time to run a campaign would change their values.

they should pass legislation that you have to sit as an independent if you step down from the party that you were elected to represent...as it is, it opens up the potential for opportunism...as we have seen too much in the last few years.

in our system, people vote for the party more than the person....

[samne]

they should pass legislation that you have to sit as an independent if you step down from the party that you were elected to represent

good one. at least wait until the next election to run for another party.

[Xelebes]

Just remember, it's not always about party lines.