Ft McMurray freeway plans

liferanger · #1 Posted: **Mar 2, 2007, 2:44 PM**

Below is a link to Alberta transportations plans for a full free flow freeway, 6 lanes with another 4-6 collector lanes on the sides making it look like about 12 lanes around downtown McMurray.....pretty impressive for a city under 100,000. This is about 15 MB to download

http://www.infratrans.gov.ab.ca/INFT...sedfwyplan.pdf

vid · #2 Posted: **Mar 2, 2007, 2:59 PM**

Is that six lanes the entire distance or just an urban expressway? If so, that's a bit excessive, although with mining trucks and whatnot it may be necessary.

We have a four lane here and it's fine, about 85% capacity, and we've got 120K.

big W · #3 Posted: **Mar 2, 2007, 3:04 PM**

I did not see the plans but what a joke our provincial government is. Lets have them do this for the Yellowhead in Edmonton and 16th ave in Calgary. Those are transcanadas and not built to this standard and neither are the ring roads they just built.

SHOFEAR · #4 Posted: **Mar 2, 2007, 3:30 PM**

Is anybody having a hard time stomaching the money the provincial government is planning on spending in Fort Mac? I question what Fort Mac will be like in 25 years and if it is smart to invest in it...especially when Edmonton and Calgary could use the infrastructure money.

Boris2k7 · #5 Posted: **Mar 2, 2007, 3:47 PM**

It IS a disproportionate share... but does that also reflect just how bad the infrastructure there is? Is it so far behind other cities that it warrants it? You are correct to bring up long-term sustainability, but what if Fort Mac's population simply plateaus and stays there, wouldn't the population need at least the amount the government is putting in now?

Of course, I am completely opposed to these kinds of roads around a town of that size, or of any size for that matter. I think that one of the things dragging down the current government is that they lack a vision of sustainability, not only in urban form and the environment but also in transportation. We should be seeing expansions of LRT, BRT, and the reimplementation of streetcars, as well as feeder buses for these systems. Instead we are getting ring roads and expressways. Notwithstanding these concerns, I would probably agree that such roads are almost necessary for the heavy truck traffic, but is any of that traffic actually going to Fort Mac itself?!?

SHOFEAR · #6 Posted: **Mar 2, 2007, 3:49 PM**

Quote:

but what if Fort Mac's population simply plateaus and stays there, wouldn't the population need at least the amount the government is putting in now?

Thats the million dollar question.

vid · #7 Posted: **Mar 2, 2007, 4:05 PM**

It probably won't stay. Usually when you get into a bust period it will drop 7-12% or so, but the infrastructure is still needed, because the adult population stays about the same, at least that's what we're experiencing here.

Calgarian · #8 Posted: **Mar 2, 2007, 4:14 PM**

With Shell and Syncrude trying to outdo eachother all the time, Fort mac will keep growing. I figure it will "plateau" at around 200 000 people.

liferanger · #9 Posted: **Mar 2, 2007, 5:10 PM**

that is six lanes the entire length with collector one way roads running along the majority of the route through DT....this brings it up to 10-12 lanes in some places....

feepa · #10 Posted: **Mar 2, 2007, 5:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid

It probably won't stay. Usually when you get into a bust period it will drop 7-12% or so, but the infrastructure is still needed, because the adult population stays about the same, at least that's what we're experiencing here.

You can't really compare Fort MacMurray to Thunder Bay or really any town/city.

Every other weekend, I bet the population of Fort Macmurray and surrounding work camps probably drops by 20,000+ if not significantly more as they head back to Edmonton and other places around Canada. The workforce up there is very migratory, and fluctuates alot. I wonder what the permanent population of Fort MacMurray is. The only highway (63) that goes between all the projects up there and between Edmonton is super clogged with buses, semis with huge loads, trucks, SUVs and the occasional car. The demand for this type of highway versus the demand in a similar population sized city such as Thunder Bay is not even comparable.

feepa · #11 Posted: **Mar 2, 2007, 5:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by liferanger

that is six lanes the entire length with collector one way roads running along the majority of the route through DT....this brings it up to 10-12 lanes in some places....

You dont count the side collector roads (or as I would call long on/off ramps) in this case really? If you do, then Edmonton has a 12 lane freeway as well (whitemud between 99st - 111 st)

ReginaGuy · #12 Posted: **Mar 2, 2007, 5:15 PM**

When oil prices drop low enough, Calgary and Edmonton will continue to grow, but fort mac will become a ghost town, there's no doubt about it. From what I've heard, a huge chunk of Fort Mac's population only plans on living there temporarily, and the economy is almost completely reliant on the oil sands.

Also, there's nothing better than having a 12 lane freeway cutting through your downtown.

feepa · #13 Posted: **Mar 2, 2007, 5:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReginaGuy

When oil prices drop low enough, Calgary and Edmonton will continue to grow, but fort mac will become a ghost town, there's no doubt about it. From what I've heard, a huge chunk of Fort Mac's population only plans on living there temporarily, and the economy is almost completely reliant on the oil sands.

Also, there's nothing better than having a 12 lane freeway cutting through your downtown.

Its not really cutting through their downtown, as theres already an existing highway there..

I wonder how much of Fort Macmurrays housing is permanent versus temporary (mobile homes, work camps, other types of temporary housing)

Not many people are in Fort Macmurray for anything but work on the oilsands, so yes, if/when the oilsands die in 10 to 100 years from now, it certainly will become somewhat of a ghost town. I dont think it will ever be completed vacated though. I believe this is why Fort Macmurray doesn't see much invested in it for civic things from the provincial government, and they have been rather reluctant to upgrade hwy 63.

chuber · #14 Posted: **Mar 2, 2007, 5:51 PM**

The people having problems with the amount of money the government is spending in the Fort McMurray region need to remember that it is where a huge chunk of the provinces wealth comes from. And it is a necessary investment to ensure the money keeps pouring in which benefits the rest of the province.

240glt · #15 Posted: **Mar 2, 2007, 6:38 PM**

They need to do something about the highway to Fort Mac. It's 2 lanes most of the way, The last 120 kms or so are in absolutely wretched shape, you frequently run into massive pieces of machinery being transported which are moving at 30 kph, at certain times during the week the road is plugged solid with busses, trucks and jackasses in F-350's trying to pass at 140kph... that road needs to be twinned, period.

canucklehead2 · #16 Posted: **Mar 2, 2007, 6:43 PM**

I am still surprised that more companies aren't setting up an fly-in/fly-out job cycle for workers, so that their families can live in towns and cities that are more affordable in Alberta like Vegreville or St Paul. I mean all of those places I believe have airports that can accomodates 737's or very close to it.

It would be a much better way to revive other towns and spread out the impact of rapid growth...

mersar · #17 Posted: **Mar 2, 2007, 6:46 PM**

And it is being twinned. Work started last year on designing the new highway, so hopefully construction may be able to start later this year on at least some of it.

Kevin_foster · #18 Posted: **Mar 2, 2007, 7:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReginaGuy

When oil prices drop low enough, Calgary and Edmonton will continue to grow, but fort mac will become a ghost town, there's no doubt about it. From what I've heard, a huge chunk of Fort Mac's population only plans on living there temporarily, and the economy is almost completely reliant on the oil sands.

Also, there's nothing better than having a 12 lane freeway cutting through your downtown.

I dont know about ghost town... the time it plateaus, it could be around 200,000 people... migratory or otherwise, that's a good indicator that it's there to stay - the local service industry is probably self sufficient at around 200,000 people.

I think what the town needs to do is plan for the future. Perhaps build a few nice colleges and technical schools, promote more tourism, have plans in place for research and development outside of oil/gas- so when the oil runs out, there will still be industry - and people that loose their jobs, will not have too hard of a problem finding new ones..

Stephen Ave · #19 Posted: **Mar 2, 2007, 7:31 PM**

They don't need this road. Widening hwy 63 through Fort McMurray by one maybe two lanes would be plenty. The road is dead throughout the day and on weekends. It's only busy at peak periods. What a waste of money.

chuber · #20 Posted: **Mar 2, 2007, 8:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mersar

And it is being twinned. Work started last year on designing the new highway, so hopefully construction may be able to start later this year on at least some of it.

The have already started clearing trees just south of FM. They are starting on that end and moving towards Edmonton. Unfortunately it will probably take forever to finally get done.