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  #1  
Old Posted: Mar 5, 2007, 1:49 AM
liferanger liferanger is offline
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Alberta to amend Traffic Safety Act to include radar tickets from Red Light cameras

Yep, the above is correct. According to the paper today, as of Wednesday, the Alberta Govt will introduce legislation to amend the Traffic Safety Act to allow law enforcement agencies to also fine motorists for speeding through intersections via the red light cameras.....The cameras in use at current time are all capable of detecting speed, which is printed on the red light tickets you get. This legislation would now allow the govt to give a speeding ticket as well.

What are your thoughts???
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  #2  
Old Posted: Mar 5, 2007, 1:57 AM
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Good idea.
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  #3  
Old Posted: Mar 5, 2007, 2:53 AM
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I'm not able to find anything online about this yet... found link... posting in next post

If this is true, its another cash cow. Rob from the poor, and take a bit from the rich.

This just punishes the poor, and allows the rich to drive as fast (and careless) as they want. If they want to stop poor driving, and speeding, etc. ENFORCEMENT BY ACTUAL OFFICERS OF THE LAW. TAKE AWAY DEMERIT POINTS. Taking my picture, and sending me a photo in the mail when I'm rich just proves how fast I did go. Thanks for my picture, heres $xxx.xx.

I know that I'm more scared of losing demerit points off my licence and losing my licence then having some fine come in the mail with little to no penalty besides a fine.

I guess being rich, you can pay to drive as fast as you want.

Is there any point to even having a points and demerit system anymore when cops rarely pull anyone over anymore?
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  #4  
Old Posted: Mar 5, 2007, 3:00 AM
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Red light cams to catch speeders

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Albe...4/3695325.html
Quote:
Red light cams to catch speeders

Expanding use of photo radar on Tory agenda


By CP

EDMONTON — Changes to broaden the use of photo radar and the creation of Alberta’s first lobbyist registry are among the goals for the first session of the legislature since Ed Stelmach became premier.

Among 50 pieces of legislation on the agenda for the spring sitting, which starts Wednesday, is a bill that will allow red-light cameras to also be used to catch drivers who speed through intersections.

Photo radar was a divisive issue during the Conservative leadership race last fall, with Stelmach calling for more of it while Lyle Oberg — who is now finance minister — denounced it as a “cash cow.”

Photo radar has also been a hot issue in other provinces. Ontario scrapped it in 1995, and British Columbia did the same in 2001. In Alberta, it’s only allowed within municipalities, not on provincial highways.

NDP house leader Ray Martin says he expects some Albertans will bristle at the idea of more photo radar on the streets.

“I think they would probably see it as Big Brother,” said Martin. “I would prefer to have more police.”

Another bill would tighten conflict-of-interest rules, including an extended cooling-off period for ministers and senior government officials after they leave government.

Changes to the Mental Health Act would allow more involuntary admissions of people with serious mental health problems.

Amendments to the Police Act would allow the province to set up an agency with the power to investigate highly sensitive matters involving police, including incidents where someone has been seriously hurt or killed.
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  #5  
Old Posted: Mar 5, 2007, 3:02 AM
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There is actually a pretty simple way to keep all of your money: Don't speed!

WOW! Imagine that!
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  #6  
Old Posted: Mar 5, 2007, 3:03 AM
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Originally Posted by vid View Post
There is actually a pretty simple way to keep all of your money: Don't speed!

WOW! Imagine that!
Well I completely agree with you, you still miss the point of what I'm trying to say. When you're rich, who cares if you get a fine in the mail with no other punitive action taken against you? Being rich shouldn't be a licence to speed.

EDIT: Maybe fines from photo radar/red light cameras should be based on a certain percentage of what your reported income was the previous year or maybe overall net worth.
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  #7  
Old Posted: Mar 5, 2007, 3:12 AM
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Well then that would be discrimination. Penalizing rich people harder just because they're rich and 'can handle it' is wrong.
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  #8  
Old Posted: Mar 5, 2007, 3:31 AM
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Originally Posted by vid View Post
Well then that would be discrimination. Penalizing rich people harder just because they're rich and 'can handle it' is wrong.
What about just getting back to regular enforcement? Demerit points + fine
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  #9  
Old Posted: Mar 5, 2007, 3:36 AM
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Now that's fairer.

But having the cameras leaves police to deal with more important issues than speeding as well.
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  #10  
Old Posted: Mar 5, 2007, 3:41 AM
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Gonna have to prove to me that this is in the interest of public safety and not for revenues.
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  #11  
Old Posted: Mar 5, 2007, 3:46 AM
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Originally Posted by SHOFEAR View Post
Gonna have to prove to me that this is in the interest of public safety and not for revenues.
Is it ever in the interest of public safety? I don't have any figures but I'm sure I read somewhere that most car accidents happen in parking lots.

If they would use the revenues to fund police and lower taxes a bit (preferable middle class or business income taxes) that would be great. The highest payed public servant in Thunder Bay is the chief of police, making almost 2.5 times as much as the mayor. And yet the police have only recently moved to a secure radio frequency.

I'm sure many cities in Canada have a similar situation, no?
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  #12  
Old Posted: Mar 5, 2007, 4:02 AM
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If they would use the revenues to fund police and lower taxes a bit (preferable middle class or business income taxes) that would be great.
Or a gaint fund to help pay for the lawsuits regarding corruption and brutality the asshats at the EPS have faced on a weekly basis for the past couple of years.

How can you trust people like this?

Quote:
OFFICERS ABUSED LAWYER'S SON: LAWSUIT CLAIMS
Matt Engel Strip-Searched But Not Charged EDMONTON -- Edmonton police officers detained and strip-searched the son of Edmonton defence lawyer Tom Engel after they threw away the evidence -- a marijuana cigarette -- of his alleged crime, according to a lawsuit filed Tuesday. The statement of claim also alleges officers physically and emotionally abused Matt Engel, never read him his rights and refused the 22-year-old's repeated requests to call a lawyer. After the strip search, he was released with no charges. "The level of force used by the defendants ... was wholly unnecessary and excessive, and was motivated by their animosity towards ( Matt Engel's ) father and their own personal amusement rather than any legitimate law enforcement purpose," the lawsuit states. The lawsuit's allegations have not been proven in court and no statement of defence has been filed. In the statement of claim, Matt Engel admits he was smoking a marijuana cigarette in an alley behind the Strathcona Hotel on Feb. 25, 2005, when he was approached by three police officers. One of the officers asked for the cigarette and Engel gave it to them. Edmonton police have the discretion whether to lay charges for small amounts of marijuana and the lawsuit states the officers decided not to charge Engel and threw away the marijuana cigarette. But after discarding the marijuana, one of the officers asked Engel to submit to a search. He initially declined but then relented and emptied his pockets, including his identification. Once the police officers realized they were dealing with the son of Tom Engel, who is well known to police in Edmonton, it is alleged his head was slammed against the wall, he was handcuffed and one of the officers pressed his thumb under Engel's ear in a deliberate attempt to cause pain. Engel was taken to the Strathcona police station. At the station, one of the officers "made a deliberate show of putting on rubber gloves for the sole purpose of intimidating and frightening Engel and causing him to believe that he was about to be subjected to a highly intrusive body cavity search." Engel asked to call a lawyer but his request was denied, the lawsuit says. All his clothes, with the exception of his underwear, was removed. The strip search ended when another police officer intervened, the lawsuit states. Engel's clothes were returned to him, he was locked in a cell and then released without charge. After learning of the incident, Tom Engel made a Freedom of Information request for all documents related to his son's arrest. In direct response to the FOI request, one of the officers named in the statement of claim created a memo for his commanding officer outlining his version of events. In the April 29, 2005, memo, Const. Bill Allen said he and two officers saw a male who appeared to be serving as a lookout for another male who was smoking what he believed to be a joint. The smoker threw the joint down. "From the start the male seemed to come across as not being happy to being dealt with by police," the memo states. "He questioned the fact that we were speaking to him at all about the drugs and from his standpoint the possession of drugs was not against the law." Allen said Engel was told he was under arrest for the possession of drugs and he would be searched. Engel was also told he would be searched for other drugs unless he voluntarily handed over any drugs he may be holding. "Engel said he would not hand over anything and that he would not allow a search without being able to exercise his right to speak to legal council prior to the search," the memo says. Engel was taken to the police station and, according to Allen, was informed "the search would take place with or without his approval. "He then assisted in the search of his person which did not produce any further drugs." Engel was then asked if he wanted to speak to a lawyer or if he wished to leave, and he opted to leave. Erika Norheim, the lawyer for Matt Engel, noted that Allen's memo was created from memory more than two months after the arrest since he acknowledges he took no notes.
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  #13  
Old Posted: Mar 5, 2007, 4:05 AM
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Well if they didn't throw away the evidence first..

Maybe you need more experienced cops?
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  #14  
Old Posted: Mar 5, 2007, 4:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vid View Post
Well if they didn't throw away the evidence first..

Maybe you need more experienced cops?

Matt Engel's father is the top criminal lawyer in the city and he has called out, as well been a very outspoken critic of the police.

A police force that deals with outspoken people by roughing up their son scares the hell out of me. Unfortunatly it's not the only attempt to shut up critics. They are still dealing with a botched sting where they targeted an outspoken member of the media at a bar hoping he would drive home drunk.
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  #15  
Old Posted: Mar 5, 2007, 4:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liferanger View Post
The cameras in use at current time are all capable of detecting speed, which is printed on the red light tickets you get. This legislation would now allow the govt to give a speeding ticket as well.

What are your thoughts???
When they brought in red-light cameras in Winnipeg a couple years back, they never made a single hint or mention that the cameras also happened to record the speed of cars as well as red-light infractions.

As soon as they were installed and operational, the police made sure to mention "oh yeah, and the cameras also record your speed, so slow down".

I would wager that since they have been working here in Winnipeg, about 99% of the tickets generated are speeding related. You REALLY have to try hard to get an actual "red-light" ticket.
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  #16  
Old Posted: Mar 5, 2007, 4:54 AM
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Ridiculous cashcow. This won't solve anything... as some have mentioned, rich people will happily pay the luxury tax to speed without consequences, while we have a society getting perilously close to fascism on SPEEDING, while real crimes are increasing with no outrage from society by form of demanding aggressive change, be that stiffer penalties, or more aggressive studies into the root causes of crime in our society... plus, is it just me, or could this lead to more accidents at intersections with people frantically slamming the brakes to avoid a fine?


I wonder how adamant the police associations would be on the "dangers" of going 10 over the speed limit, and the requirements of all this "big brother" tech, if all the monies went to the provincial coffers instead of to them. My bet is they would only focus on serious traffic infractions and serious crime and promote decent parenting.
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  #17  
Old Posted: Mar 5, 2007, 4:57 AM
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What is Alberta's policy on yellow lights? In Ontario you have to stop for them and it's a 70$ fine if you pass them.
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  #18  
Old Posted: Mar 5, 2007, 6:35 AM
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At least how I was taught the yellow is a 'stop if you can, but if you can't safely stop continue through without speeding'. The speeding part is what will get a lot of tickets, especially as people tend to speed up to try to beat the yellow.
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  #19  
Old Posted: Mar 5, 2007, 6:57 AM
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You actually recieve a fine of $287 dollars for a yellow light....same as a red in Alberta...
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  #20  
Old Posted: Mar 5, 2007, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feepa View Post
This just punishes the poor, and allows the rich to drive as fast (and careless) as they want
Not if you implement a Finlandesque traffic fine system like this.

Been lurking in these forums for some time now
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