Is the money harper is proposing enough?

[401_King]

What is it like, 1-2b$? I guess it's a start, but is it enough?

[waterloowarrior]

No... the real problem is way deeper than that, and may even need constitutional change to solve.. or at least a new way of funding our cities (not mainly by property tax anymore). This needs to be something that's negotiated by all parties, the FCM, and all provinces. Miller is doing an excellent job at raising these issues and bringing ideas and plans to the federal government's attention. But cities are underrepresented federally (population compared to seats), and the provinces are also pressing the federal government to fix their own fiscal imbalance....

Some suggested readings are The New City, by John Lorinc (some good easy reading) and all of the papers found on http://www.canadascities.ca/background.htm


edit: I'm assuming you are referring to the money given to toronto

[401_King]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

edit: I'm assuming you are referring to the money given to toronto

yeah, T.O and GTA. not really interested elsewhere.

[vid]

Thunder Bay benefits if the new cars are made here. But I agree that 2 billion isn't enough. If the government invest 5 billion I think we would see some amazing improvements in service and coverage, bringing Toronto's transit up to the envy of the world.

[CharlesMunroe]

Its amazing how Durham region repeatedly gets the shaft by every level of government decade after decade. Out of all that money Durham gets a meagre 5 million to be used on a study of rapid transit. A study that the region says is a total waste that they don't even want because studies for this have already been done.

The billion dollars is not nearly enough to fix the GTA's problems and is being wasted for the most part as far as I can see. Why the hell is the 404 being extended to Lake Simcoe? To service the maybe 5000 people living up there? What a cruel joke! So much for trying to curb sprawl I guess. Merry Christmas asshole developers, you can start building your subdivisions of mansions north of Newmarket now and watch your 404 get filled past capacity in no time.

On the otherhand, it can commonly take an hour to get from Pickering to Oshawa on the 401 in the afternoon rush. This is a ten minute drive with no traffic. The mornings are just as bad going in and Sunday evenings in the spring, summer,fall are even worse. The collecter lanes sorely need to be extended to hwy. 115. This obviously is never going to happen though. It took 30 years for them to bring the GO train from Pickering to Oshawa and it still only goes to its western border and we just started getting week end service this year. What is the priority for extending the 404?

As for the subway to Vaughn, should it really be top priority for subway expansion? They talk of intensification and higher density yet they still fail to create the infrustructure for it. Toronto's tiny subway system is a joke and they feel the way to improve it is to make it all sprawled out? I think this money would be better used to fill the gaps in Toronto first. Extend the Sheppard line east and west. Starting an Eglington line, Finch line or Steeles line is more important.

If extending the subway to the 905 is necessary, why Vaughn first? Taking the Bloor line into Mississauga makes far more sense. What the hell is Vaughn? From what I see, Vaughn is nothing but massive 5000+ sq/ft subdivision with 2 and 3 car garages. Who are these people? I have high doubts these are potential subway users.

The only other thing in Vaughn is tens of thousands of low to medium paying warehouse and light manufacturing jobs. Looking at the type of housing available there, I don't think anybody who works in any of these places have any hope in hell of ever being able to afford to live there. Are they hoping these workers will stop driving to work and start taking the subway? Not to bloody likely with the laugable connections. They would have to drive to the center of Toronto to get the subway then find a bus in Vaughn that takes them past their warehouses with massive parking lots. Not going to happen. What a waste.

[Boris2k7]

Originally Posted by 401_King

yeah, T.O and GTA. not really interested elsewhere.

Why not? One would think that urbanites everywhere should be banding together to prevent a unified front against the higher orders of government.

Obviously the commitment isn't enough to meet the transit needs of Toronto, but it is a start certainly. Think about it this way: it would be almost unthinkable here in Alberta for Calgary or Edmonton to recieve ANYTHING from the Federal government, much less transit money. That is totally off the radar. Almost everything is expected to come from either the Municipalities or the Provincial Government.

[Doady]

Its amazing how Durham region repeatedly gets the shaft by every level of government decade after decade. Out of all that money Durham gets a meagre 5 million to be used on a study of rapid transit. A study that the region says is a total waste that they don't even want because studies for this have already been done.

I'm going to tell you the same thing that I told the Hamilton forumers who complain about lack of funding: only cities that actually have transit projects will get funding for transit projects. The Federal government can't give Durham to implement a BRT or LRT plans when no such plans exist.

$5 million for a rapid transit study not bad considering others cities fund similar studies entirely on its own.

Obviously the commitment isn't enough to meet the transit needs of Toronto, but it is a start certainly. Think about it this way: it would be almost unthinkable here in Alberta for Calgary or Edmonton to recieve ANYTHING from the Federal government, much less transit money. That is totally off the radar. Almost everything is expected to come from either the Municipalities or the Provincial Government.

What is really needed is sustained funding program rather than just one-time funding, so all transit system big and small will benefit equally and no one is ignored just because it is feasible to have mega transit projects.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by Doady

I'm going to tell you the same thing that I told the Hamilton forumers who complain about lack of funding: only cities that actually have transit projects will get funding for transit projects. The Federal government can't give Durham to implement a BRT or LRT plans when no such plans exist.

I notice that you quite offend mention about Hamilton's lack of interest in public transit. If you actually look at the Hamilton Construction thread you'll in fact see that Hamilton is requesting federal and provincial money to implement a BRT system and yes the city finished a BRT plan, two new BRT lines one North-South and one East-West, with construction of a new downtown public transit station which begins this year. The city has even created a Rapid Transit Office to implement all these projects.

[raisethehammer]

Harper is giving out money??
Hmm, somehow I missed that.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I live in Hamilton.

[SteelTown]

Might have noticed it if your riding had any chance of becoming a Conservative seat in the next election. Suburbs (GTA) are a much easier target for the Conservatives to obtain.

[CharlesMunroe]

Originally Posted by Doady

I'm going to tell you the same thing that I told the Hamilton forumers who complain about lack of funding: only cities that actually have transit projects will get funding for transit projects. The Federal government can't give Durham to implement a BRT or LRT plans when no such plans exist.

$5 million for a rapid transit study not bad considering others cities fund similar studies entirely on its own.

Plans do exist. The regions transit systems were just amalgamated a couple of years ago into "Durham Transit". Studies were completed and paid for by the region. In February they applied for $150 million under some federal/provincial infrustructure funding program. Instead were given $5 million to do another study and the region is expected to kick in another $2.5 million for it.

Not sure what those transit plans are and they likely do need more work before any major funding but there has been a need for decades now for the widening of the 401 through at least Oshawa. Instead they announce they are going to build a 6 lane highway from Newmarket to Lake Simcoe.

How can they honestly say that is going to help congestion in the GTA?

Widening it through Oshawa would be costly but from Ajax to Whitby its wide open both sides and straight and flat. It is only a fraction the length of the useless 404 expansion announced and only has 1 overpass and 1 creek to deal with.

This alone would be a large benefit to hundreds of thousands of people everyday. Who benefits with a 6 lane highway from Newmarket to Lake Simcoe? A few developers? This is our money being stolen.

That subway announcement is just as obscene.