LOUISVILLE | Museum Plaza | 696 FT / 214 M | 61 FLOORS

[LvilleSlggr73]

Originally Posted by bw87a

what do you mean?

I was wondering the same thing. If they are saying that because of the bold assertive design that it would've been better off being proposed for one of the aforementioned cities, that's just ridiculous to me. This no more belongs in any one specific or size city than the other. Louisville is a perfectly suitable place for this building in my humble opinion. Are these cities more sophisticated or something that they deserve the building or it would be a better fit there than Louisville? That's laughable to me. When looking at renderings of the city with MP included, it certainly adds to it and stands out, which it would not do to the degree it does here in Toronto or Chicago or any other city with dozens or hundreds of skycrapers as tall or taller than this one. The location on the riverfront ensures that this will not be overshadowed by other buildings even if they are built taller in the future. I'm not so sure the same thing could be said if this 700 ft tall tower were built in either of those cities in between other towers that are in cases several hundred feet taller unless it was on the edge of the skyline and even then, both those cities are extremely impressive and this building would probably have to be a few hundred feet taller itself to stand out like it would here.
Myke

[ethereal_reality]

vistaridge likes to 'stir the pot' as they say.

His comment makes absolutely no sense.
The building was designed for Louisville and belongs in Louisville.

[LvilleSlggr73]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

vistaridge likes to 'stir the pot' as they say.

His comment makes absolutely no sense.
The building was designed for Louisville and belongs in Louisville.

I agree it belongs here and nowhere else. It was designed specifically for that spot. I have wondered, though, the designers said that it was built on the legs because of the limited space or something to that effect, but wouldn't a straight up tower have had just as small or smaller footprint? I may be remembering wrong details, but I thought that was part of it and now looking at it, I'm thinking that the space required for multiple legs and purposes requires more surface space than just a single floor plate. Not that I mind that, since it is a stunning design.

Myke

[vistaridge]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

vistaridge likes to 'stir the pot' as they say.

His comment makes absolutely no sense.
The building was designed for Louisville and belongs in Louisville.

I may stir the pot but its what keeps you guys checking back. Take a shot at explaining what part of the post makes "absolutely no sense" and lets discuss it civil.

101 folks - The building was not designed for Louisville anymore than any other building you see was designed for that city outside of governmental or museums and the like. Hire an architect, go through the process and then educate us will you. If you want to buy the design rights tomorrow and build it or part of it in Nashville, Toronto, LA you can as long it complies w/ the physics of the site and codes. People have taken my buildings and duplicated as I have borrowed other components. "A genius stands on the shoulders of those before" Einstein, I believe and MP was borrowed and inpart created.
I've already explained my opinion of why it doesn't belong. Why doesn't someone take a shot at why it would fit into the context of its surroundings as it relates to the 100-150 year old historic buildings that are there that make the Historic Central Business District the home to so many successful businesses and homeowners. Better yet lets plant it in anywhere suburbia USA, right in the middle of a shopping mall - if you really want to see it, what ever it is in all it's glory.

Is it attractive? - well sure - its man made, it challenges principles and it makes for good "pot stiring" and "conversation" but isn't that what is interesting in the end about "it."

Outside of that - don't worry that the numbers don't work. Lord how many prototype cars have been designed never to make the show room floors - same principle applies - numbers don't work - design very interesting.


Now cover and set on simmer.....

[duckster]

I do not know whether this is good news, but I have noticed that the people behind Museum Plaza have updated their website. Actually they have completely revamped it. Why would they do that, if they are getting ready to fold under the credit pressure?

[LvilleSlggr73]

Originally Posted by duckster

I do not know whether this is good news, but I have noticed that the people behind Museum Plaza have updated their website. Actually they have completely revamped it. Why would they do that, if they are getting ready to fold under the credit pressure?

Apparently just because they don't know what they are doing and like spending their hard earned money on a project that doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell. LOL, j/k, in all honesty, a website revamp is not too major a thing, but would lead one to believe that they aren't in too bad shape or else, why waste time and money to pay the web designer to change the site for a project that they believe is going to fail. I think they are smart people who surround themselves with smart people who know what they are doing and still have hope that this project is alive and well but napping right now. Time will tell if it was a pipe dream or not.

Myke

[CapitalCity]

i think that building looks soooo cool!!! i hope ill get to visit it sometime when it gets completed!

[futuresooner]

So many project sites have been updated that aren't anything else than an approved project right now. Look at Signature Tower in Nashville, what a joke right now!

[Dan in Chicago]

Originally Posted by vistaridge

I've already explained my opinion of why it doesn't belong. Why doesn't someone take a shot at why it would fit into the context of its surroundings as it relates to the 100-150 year old historic buildings that are there that make the Historic Central Business District the home to so many successful businesses and homeowners.

As European cities have learned, the best complement to historic buildings is usually something very modern that acts as a foil to them. A modern building done well offsets the strengths of the older buildings because it's so different - think of the pyramid in the Louvre or the Hearst Tower in New York. The worst thing to do would be to insert a building that "fits in" because it just won't. Building materials are mass-produced in different ways today, and architects don't have the training nor do builders have the craftsmanship to design buildings in historic styles. That's why postmodern buildings usually look so flat compared to what they're imitating.

I'm not an expert on Louisville, but the city does have a bit of a tradition of building daring architecture. The Humana Building was on the far edge of style in its day, and there's also that very unusual Frank Lloyd Wright tower outside of downtown, for what it's worth.

By the way, the height should really be changed on the thread's title. The design is only 696 feet high. Yes I know, the news stories and promotional literature all say 703, but you have to realize the people who put those numbers out don't care about heights like we do, and they don't know the standards for measuring heights. Blueprints don't lie. There's some mistake in the 703' figure, it was probably measured from the river or something.

[zx14]

This whole thing has been a huge mistake from the start and now money has been lost and the whole project looks like it will be scrapped. Same here in Lex for our new building. That along with Signature Tower in Nash will not be built. Condos? go south my friends to better weather cities with booming economies like Austin.

[vistaridge]

Originally Posted by LvilleSlggr73

Apparently just because they don't know what they are doing and like spending their hard earned money on a project that doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell. LOL, j/k, in all honesty, a website revamp is not too major a thing, but would lead one to believe that they aren't in too bad shape or else, why waste time and money to pay the web designer to change the site for a project that they believe is going to fail. I think they are smart people who surround themselves with smart people who know what they are doing and still have hope that this project is alive and well but napping right now. Time will tell if it was a pipe dream or not.

Myke

actually the developer team husband and wife are buffalo farmers and astute art collectors w/ no development experience outside of 21c. The driving force behind the idea of MP was to deter development from the burbs. At one time all of their promotional sites noted "ART DRIVES COMMERCE" as their moto/marque. They may have changed recently. I'm not sure I get the connection at least I missed that chapter in economics 101 but egos and a substantial trust fund can create reality from ideas that would normally never come to fruition in a conventional world.
That being said, look what Owsley Frazier pulled off w/ his personal collection. He created a fantastic arms museum in the CBD and it is an asset.

[vistaridge]

Originally Posted by Dan in Chicago

As European cities have learned, the best complement to historic buildings is usually something very modern that acts as a foil to them. A modern building done well offsets the strengths of the older buildings because it's so different - think of the pyramid in the Louvre or the Hearst Tower in New York. The worst thing to do would be to insert a building that "fits in" because it just won't. Building materials are mass-produced in different ways today, and architects don't have the training nor do builders have the craftsmanship to design buildings in historic styles. That's why postmodern buildings usually look so flat compared to what they're imitating.

I'm not an expert on Louisville, but the city does have a bit of a tradition of building daring architecture. The Humana Building was on the far edge of style in its day, and there's also that very unusual Frank Lloyd Wright tower outside of downtown, for what it's worth.

By the way, the height should really be changed on the thread's title. The design is only 696 feet high. Yes I know, the news stories and promotional literature all say 703, but you have to realize the people who put those numbers out don't care about heights like we do, and they don't know the standards for measuring heights. Blueprints don't lie. There's some mistake in the 703' figure, it was probably measured from the river or something.

Dan - thanks for the intellectual interjection. You are correct in your analysis no doubt can't argue w/ your points.

[ethereal_reality]

^^^
The 'unusual' FLW tower you mentioned
was designed by William Wesley Peters.
Mr. Peters is Frank Lloyd Wright's son-in-law.

[Dan in Chicago]

^ I know, but it was based on an FLW design. It was probably just a drawing or two, but from what I've read the basic form and the facade pattern belong to the master.

The best thing ever written about Frank Lloyd Wright was in the tongue-in-cheek reference book An Incompleat Education. It says Frank Lloyd Wright was, "by his own admission, the greatest architect of all time."

^^ Thanks vistaridge, of course I'm biased though -- Museum Plaza is my favorite active proposal in the world, now that 80 South Street is dead. Tower Verre is a close second.

[vistaridge]

Originally Posted by Dan in Chicago

^ I know, but it was based on an FLW design. It was probably just a drawing or two, but from what I've read the basic form and the facade pattern belong to the master.

The best thing ever written about Frank Lloyd Wright was in the tongue-in-cheek reference book An Incompleat Education. It says Frank Lloyd Wright was, "by his own admission, the greatest architect of all time."

^^ Thanks vistaridge, of course I'm biased though -- Museum Plaza is my favorite active proposal in the world, now that 80 South Street is dead. Tower Verre is a close second.

lol
If he was alive - someone would give him a good stiff kick in the rump. Fabulous design but WHAT WERE YOU THINKING - How the hell do you keep the windows clean. answer....you don't. One building where a corner office ain't a good thing.

[ethereal_reality]

Museum Plaza was in my top 3 as well.
The other two are Chicago Spire and Tower Verre.

Has anyone seen this 'prototype' design by OMA?



It's interesting to see OMA's designs morphing into Museum Plaza.

[duckster]

Just a little update. Driving past the future MP lobby/entry building on Main st. I've noticed, that they put large colorful MP neon posters over the empty store fronts. At least their marketing department is still in full swing. Hopefully the building department will follow suit.

[duckster]

Courier-Journal 6/14/08

---------------------
Electrical tower to be taken down

Developers of the $490 million, 62-story project at Seventh Street and River Road said yesterday they are investing $14.5 million to have Louisville Gas & Electric create a new electrical transmission system for downtown and remove electrical lines under the site.

The work started earlier this week and will culminate in January, when crews finish removing a 10-story transmission tower that has been an eyesore on the downtown skyline for a generation.

The futuristic skyscraper is meant to reshape Louisville's skyline when completed in 2011. It is the vision of arts patron Laura Lee Brown and her husband, Steve Wilson; developer Steve Poe; and attorney Craig Greenberg.

Greenberg said the four developers still haven't secured the $300 million construction loan necessary to complete the project because of instability in the financial markets. But that hasn't stopped them from investing more than $38 million of their own money at the site.

"We've decided to go ahead and make that investment now because we're so dedicated to this project," Steve Wilson said. "This is a huge investment in downtown."

Greenberg couldn't say what will happen in January if the developers haven't landed the loan.

"The best I can answer that today is to say our team has a significant investment in this project. We are personally and civically committed to completing it and we're going to find a way to get it done," he said. "It's a question of when, not if."

Poe said the utility work being done over the next few months will help the project move forward more quickly when the loan is secured.

"We have a great project … and a bad, but improving, worldwide economic market," Greenberg said. "We're ready to go as soon as they solve their problems and give credit to good projects like Museum Plaza."

LG&E spokesman Chip Keeling said the utility must build a redundant system to deliver electricity to downtown, power it up and ensure it works before disassembling the old lines and tower. He said the 10-story tower will come down "like an erector set, bolt by bolt."

"Removal isn't that difficult, we just have to make sure the new system is working properly first," Keeling said.

Museum Plaza was named one of the most architecturally innovative skyscrapers in the world by The Wall Street Journal in 2006.

When completed, the building will include three towers of various heights that look like an upside-down, three-legged chair. Inside, there will be condominiums, offices, shops, a museum and a Westin hotel, among other features.

Louisville will issue $47 million in bonds to help pay for a flood wall at the building and new streets, lighting and other infrastructure improvements.

The state of Kentucky has agreed to help the project with a 30-year taxing district that allows 80 percent of the taxes generated by the development to pay for infrastructure improvements. The state also will rebate sales taxes on construction materials used at the site.

No public money has been used so far at the building, Greenberg said.

Crews had been digging the foundation at the site in January when severe vibrations rattled 19th century buildings on Main Street, causing work to be halted. That work has not resumed, but Greenberg said crews will use a corkscrew drill, which will minimize vibrations, to install foundation beams when it does.

It will be the next phase of work after the utilities are relocated. Greenberg said it probably will be necessary to have the loan in place before doing so.

The development agreement between the developers and the city calls for work to begin in July, or the parties would have to negotiate a contract amendment. Greenberg said the work happening with the utilities counts. "It's real construction. It's a real start," he said.
----------------

[King weatherman3]

When get Start Museum Plaza???

What about captal Plaza?? when start???

[EmpireCityGuy]

Originally Posted by Dan in Chicago

As European cities have learned, the best complement to historic buildings is usually something very modern that acts as a foil to them. A modern building done well offsets the strengths of the older buildings because it's so different - think of the pyramid in the Louvre or the Hearst Tower in New York. The worst thing to do would be to insert a building that "fits in" because it just won't. Building materials are mass-produced in different ways today, and architects don't have the training nor do builders have the craftsmanship to design buildings in historic styles. That's why postmodern buildings usually look so flat compared to what they're imitating.

I'm not an expert on Louisville, but the city does have a bit of a tradition of building daring architecture. The Humana Building was on the far edge of style in its day, and there's also that very unusual Frank Lloyd Wright tower outside of downtown, for what it's worth.

By the way, the height should really be changed on the thread's title. The design is only 696 feet high. Yes I know, the news stories and promotional literature all say 703, but you have to realize the people who put those numbers out don't care about heights like we do, and they don't know the standards for measuring heights. Blueprints don't lie. There's some mistake in the 703' figure, it was probably measured from the river or something.

I don't know that it is so much something "learned" as it is something cultural.