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  #21  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2007, 9:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ozone View Post
I think they're trying to.
ok good 'cause they scare the out of me! i literally had to walk on the street when i saw a gang of them! k street is infested with rats and hoodrats hahaha.
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  #22  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2007, 9:23 PM
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Why not a exclusive Metro Bus System in the Central City?
I don’t like those big, noisy and f'king ugly RT buses on our Central City neighborhoods. I think there needs to be a smaller more attractive Metro Bus system with that works exclusively within the grid or at the very least in Midtown. I’d like to see quieter more eco-friendly buses that have a cool retro look-maybe something like the old London double-deckers and certianly NOT those corny fake cable car buses! These would be fun to ride and would be used by all classes of people. They'd be used exclusively in Midtown, North End, Southside and Downtown to give the Central City a distinctive, special character and give people a sense that they have arrived in the “city”.

The all-city buses and commuter buses should be confined to downtown or the periphery of Midtown. There needs to be bus (transfer) stations on the grid’s eastern and southern periphery that would force riders to change from suburban buses to Metro buses that are more appropriate for our mixed-use streets. It would also ensure the economic viability of the Metro bus system since it would force suburban riders to use the Metro bus to get to the peripheral stations.

What are your ideas?

Here's some examples of retro buses I like to see on our streets:



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  #23  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2007, 9:34 PM
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those busses look like they make a lot of noise! it would be weird seeing them fly by silently, you know what i mean?

they're pretty cute.
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  #24  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2007, 9:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozone View Post
These would be fun to ride and would be used by all classes of people.
Now that's an idea... make a bus ride fun How would you propose doing this?
Also, those retro buses are very cool looking but... they way to
cramped for large or tall people.
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  #25  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2007, 9:41 PM
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how about something like this? except in a more lively color, and with real nice ads. perhaps one with no roof!

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  #26  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2007, 9:50 PM
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I’m talking about new buses that that have the look of these old buses rather than using actual old buses. The new retro style buses would have to be cleaner and quieter and have more leg room.

If we had a sizable fleet of smaller buses that was exclusive to the Central City they could run more often by making quicker turnarounds on shorter loops so that their smaller passenger capacity would not be a problem. Maybe the bigger RT buses could run through the Central City only during peak commute times if capacity is a problem.

downtownserg89 I thought of double-decker and then remembered that the trees might pose a problem.
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  #27  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2007, 9:57 PM
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oh you're right! the trees would be a problem.

well i'm up for the retro style buses. that's so midtown. it would give it an even more unique vibe to see those kind of buses run around.
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  #28  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2007, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by innov8 View Post
Now that's an idea... make a bus ride fun How would you propose doing this?
Also, those retro buses are very cool looking but... they way to
cramped for large or tall people.
Serve cocktails on board?
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  #29  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 2:07 AM
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One of the reasons why they're considering streetcars is because
streetcars would be much more appealing to people who might otherwise hop in a car and drive themselves 6 blocks as opposed to stepping aboard a bus.

Secondly there is a historical connection to streetcars traveling Sacramento's streets.

Lastly there is a lower operating cost and less wear and tear for Light Rail as opposed to buses. I would assume the same would be true for streetcars, which use less power to operate.





BTW the double decker bus was operated by R.T. for a trial period a few years ago, and the trees were in fact a probelm.
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  #30  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 2:11 AM
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Ozone, you're not the only one on this thread that lives in the grid. Many of us do. I walk miles every week in the grid. So do most of the people I know that live midtown, including many on this forum. I have to be honest with you, I have NEVER heard one person that lives in the grid other than you complain about one-way streets. I just don't see the problem and people I know just aren't talking about it, so it must not be a problem in their eyes either.

The city spends too much f#$%ing money playing around with the streets. First it's parallel parking, then it's Diagonal. First it's a four-way stop, then it's a traffic circle. First it's two-way, then it's one-way, then maybe it's two-way again? Add to all this the countless traffic studies, environmental impact reports, lawsuits, etc. It's just nonsense. The streets are fine. Let's work on something else!
That's bizarre because I hear people bitch about our one-way mini-freeways all the time. I'm not meaning to delegitamize you in any way but I travel the grid by bike, foot, public transit exclusively. When I come up to a one-way, even with just two lanes, cars fly by inches from me going 65 like it's a freeway! Beyond being an inconvenience, it puts peoples lives at much greater risk. I agree that there needs to be a fine balance but Sac is an incredibly easy city to drive in and out of, much easier than a similar sized city like Portland. But let's face it, the suburbs wield immense power in this city as indicated by the obscene level of sprawl and they want to leave work downtown as quickly as possible so they can try to beat traffic caused by their own sprawl. Meanwhile, everyone in the urban core pays the price.

And does anyone know what happened with the conversion plans?
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  #31  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 3:48 AM
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It's seems to me that the one's who don't appreciate the need for the conversions are ones that mostly drive and/or do not live on one-way streets.
I liken people who move into a house on a one-way street and then decide they don't like it to people who move into the flight path of the airport and then want flights limited.

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  #32  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 4:23 AM
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Originally Posted by brandon12 View Post
I liken people who move into a house on a one-way street and then decide they don't like it to people who move into the flight path of the airport and then want flights limited.

Buyer Beware!
That seems like a pretty arrogant attitude brandon. I’m not just complaining, I’m trying to change things. It’s not very likely that I could ever change the flight patterns of the airport but it is likely that my street will be one of those that will be converted into a two-way. I don’t see the comparison really. You may not agree with my point of view but I have every right to try to improve my neighborhood as I see it..Even if that means a wee bit of an inconvenience to you in your friends.
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  #33  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 4:33 AM
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I totally agree with you EU that streetcars are preferable to buses. Nonetheless a streetcar line would only be a small, however vital link and we would still need to supplement it with a bus system...unless we build a subway which isn't going to happen.
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  #34  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 4:54 AM
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why not build a subway using the underground tunnels throughout sac? that would be kinda cool.
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  #35  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 5:03 AM
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why not build a subway using the underground tunnels throughout sac? that would be kinda cool.
Two problems I'd think would prevent this - Tunnels are super expensive and water tables.
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  #36  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 5:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ozone View Post
That seems like a pretty arrogant attitude brandon. I’m not just complaining, I’m trying to change things. It’s not very likely that I could ever change the flight patterns of the airport but it is likely that my street will be one of those that will be converted into a two-way. I don’t see the comparison really. You may not agree with my point of view but I have every right to try to improve my neighborhood as I see it..Even if that means a wee bit of an inconvenience to you in your friends.
It's not arrogant, it's just a point. Both types of people in the example cited above move into a neighborhood and then decide they don't like an inherant quality of the neighborhood they moved into.
Hypothetically speaking, it would be similar to me moving next door to a machine shop and then complaining about the mid-day noise. Sure, I have a right to complain about it and to try and change it, but does that mean it's right? Another example would be people who move into a new midtown loft and then complain about the noise coming from the bar across the street. Or people who move next to Cal Expo and then complain about noise from concerts.

One thing all these examples have in common is that people are complaining and trying to change things that they may personally find disagreeable, but are, in fact, good for the greater community. And that's fine- everyone has a right to speak their mind and try to get things to be the way they want. But that doesn't mean it's in the best interest of everyone else.

I don't see a reason why several streets in midtown can't be one-way. In my opinion, the streets that currently exist as one-way are well located and convenient.
That's my two cents, and I won't spend a third.
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  #37  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 5:15 AM
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Originally Posted by greenmidtown View Post
That's bizarre because I hear people bitch about our one-way mini-freeways all the time. I'm not meaning to delegitamize you in any way but I travel the grid by bike, foot, public transit exclusively. When I come up to a one-way, even with just two lanes, cars fly by inches from me going 65 like it's a freeway! Beyond being an inconvenience, it puts peoples lives at much greater risk. I agree that there needs to be a fine balance but Sac is an incredibly easy city to drive in and out of, much easier than a similar sized city like Portland. But let's face it, the suburbs wield immense power in this city as indicated by the obscene level of sprawl and they want to leave work downtown as quickly as possible so they can try to beat traffic caused by their own sprawl. Meanwhile, everyone in the urban core pays the price.
Sorry but I'm with Brandon on this one. I live in Midtown on one of the busiest one way streets and I've never heard anyone complain about this issue. Nor do I think the setup needs to be changed.

Not once have I ever been driving down a two way street and got the sudden urge to pull over and patronize a business - that's quite laughable as I almost always have a destination or place in mind before I leave. Perhaps driving down a one way street, I might miss a business if I don't know where it is exactly. But there's a very simple solution to that problem - I circle around the block and and get back to said business! I don't pack up and go home...I just don't get these so-called business owner's rationale.
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  #38  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 6:38 AM
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Two problems I'd think would prevent this - Tunnels are super expensive and water tables.

well shoot. there's gotta be a better use for those abandoned tunnels! i heard homeless consider them homes. how cute.
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  #39  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 6:38 AM
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Sorry but I'm with Brandon on this one. I live in Midtown on one of the busiest one way streets and I've never heard anyone complain about this issue. Nor do I think the setup needs to be changed.

Not once have I ever been driving down a two way street and got the sudden urge to pull over and patronize a business - that's quite laughable as I almost always have a destination or place in mind before I leave. Perhaps driving down a one way street, I might miss a business if I don't know where it is exactly. But there's a very simple solution to that problem - I circle around the block and and get back to said business! I don't pack up and go home...I just don't get these so-called business owner's rationale.
We can go back and forth on this forever but I ride my bike to work as do many of my friends and neighbors and this is a big issue for us. With that behind us, I'm not going to argue anecdotal evidence, the real issue is whether 2 ways are more pedestrian-friendly and safer than one-ways. They are according to experts worldwide http://www.pps.org/info/placemakingt...20TO%20TWO-WAY
This isn't a matter of opinion it's for experts to decide.
With that in mind many of us like to better our communities instead of leaving things how they are. Your argument is essentially, 'if you don't like it, leave.'
We all know how much ignorant groups love using that phrase so I suggest you leave it out of an intelligent discussion.
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  #40  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 6:41 AM
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I'm not going spend anymore time trying to argue my point. Let's just say we disagee on this subject and leave at that. I will continue to work to convert many of our one-way streets to two-way and if we are successful you can say that f’kg!@#$*& SOB ozone!
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