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  #41  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 7:40 AM
Phillip Phillip is offline
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One Way/Two Way

Aren't at least some one way arterials pretty much a universal in large cities? (And a lot of small cities.) Seattle has them and Portland. San Fran, San Jose, LA and San Diego have them. Even Fresno has a couple!

If traffic is whizzing by at 55 when the speed limit is 35 then traffic calming is in order. Can't that be done without making the street two way though. I guess I don't understand why bicycling is safer on a two way street carrying the same number of vehicles as the one way carried before.

Anyone know places that converted one way arterials to two way streets recently and what were the results?

And Greentown, weren't they recently talking in Portland about converting Burnside, the main east-west arterial through Downtown from two-way to one-way to facilitate traffic movement? I'm guessing you're not for that.
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  #42  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 8:25 AM
Tenebrist Tenebrist is offline
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Originally Posted by brandon12 View Post
It's not arrogant, it's just a point. Both types of people in the example cited above move into a neighborhood and then decide they don't like an inherant quality of the neighborhood they moved into.
Hypothetically speaking, it would be similar to me moving next door to a machine shop and then complaining about the mid-day noise. Sure, I have a right to complain about it and to try and change it, but does that mean it's right? Another example would be people who move into a new midtown loft and then complain about the noise coming from the bar across the street. Or people who move next to Cal Expo and then complain about noise from concerts.

One thing all these examples have in common is that people are complaining and trying to change things that they may personally find disagreeable, but are, in fact, good for the greater community. And that's fine- everyone has a right to speak their mind and try to get things to be the way they want. But that doesn't mean it's in the best interest of everyone else.

I don't see a reason why several streets in midtown can't be one-way. In my opinion, the streets that currently exist as one-way are well located and convenient.
That's my two cents, and I won't spend a third.
Well said. I with you..
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  #43  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ozone View Post
[B][SIZE="5"]

Here's some examples of retro buses I like to see on our streets:



Those are cool looking buses. I think i've seen these buses in person. Did they come from the Mercedes-Benz Museum in Stuttgart?

I really cant say which streets are better 2way or one way. It is very unsafe when cutting across the grid going north/south on say 20th street or any other non-through way. Trying to figure out which way to look as the intersection behind you was a two-way but the next street is one-way, back to two-way. shit you are bound to hit someone or get hit.

As you sit there inching your way into the intersection because you can't see, a cyclist rides by you without stopping -- fucking cyclist.

When i lived on Pstreet (one-way) as a resident the traffic did not bother me, same when I lived on G, long time ago when it was one-way. But, the two-ways are more attractive, and sometimes better getting through town, like K or Capital streets (two-ways) and O street the perfect two-way for cyclists.

I used to commute by bike from 27th to 9th on O Street....back then, I was the fucker who would never stop at the intersections.
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  #44  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 4:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon12 View Post
I liken people who move into a house on a one-way street and then decide they don't like it to people who move into the flight path of the airport and then want flights limited.

Buyer Beware!

That's not a fair comparison. Airlines are held to strict codes and they follow them or they're finished. You don't see southwest pilots doing fly-by's over Truxel. I thought I labeled some pretty convincing points in my first comment regarding the cars plowing into houses and what not. i mean, my neighbor's kid isn't even allowed to stand on their front lawn. It's the difference between a nuisance and straight up danger. and it's not something that anyone should live with regardless of when they moved in.
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  #45  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 5:20 PM
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As a pedestrian each day to work through the grid, I have to eventually pass both J and I streets, and I have to say, I dread the experience each and every time. I do believe, while they are effective a moving traffic quickly through the grid, they are awful at crossing at intersections without traffic lights. Traffic does speed much much faster than the posted speed limits, and does NOT stop for pedestrians waiting at crosswalks, so you have to dart in breaks of cars--and this is during the day. At night, I wonder if I'm going to make it across......

The solution? I'd say two way streets, but I'd really love for the city to squeeze in a true boulevard, two lanes in each direction with a median in the center (much like Santa Monica Blvd in West Hollywood).
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  #46  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 5:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Sacdelicious View Post
with a median in the center (much like Santa Monica Blvd in West Hollywood).
i just woke up like 6 seconds ago, and for some reason my brain isnt functioning at its best. with that said, i was wondering, what does a "median in the center" look like?
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  #47  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 5:36 PM
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Originally Posted by downtownserg89 View Post
i just woke up like 6 seconds ago, and for some reason my brain isnt functioning at its best. with that said, i was wondering, what does a "median in the center" look like?
just like Capitol Mall between the bridge and the capitol. two-way traffic divided by a grassy or otherwise landscaped feature.
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  #48  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 5:38 PM
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ohhh! duh. thanks TD. yeah we need some more of those. i like 21st street's median with palm trees. gives the street a somewhat L.A. vibe.
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  #49  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 5:53 PM
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Santa Monica @ Westmount Dr.

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  #50  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 6:01 PM
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so what street is big enough for a median? broadway would look cool.
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  #51  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 6:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip View Post
Anyone know places that converted one way arterials to two way streets recently and what were the results?
if im not mistaken, san jose was (is?) in the process of converting some of its one-way streets to two-way. i think this was being done as a traffic-calming measure as some of the streets went through residential areas.

the results? i have no idea.

however, i personally believe that a city's downtown core should be mostly one-way to accomodate the higher traffic. as phillip said, if traffic is moving at 55 and the speed limit is 35, then traffic calming is a must! one way or not, i say, take out a lane for a streetcar.
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  #52  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 6:55 PM
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Here is the recommendation for DT/MT area street conversions. This will be going before the council on next Wednesday, March 20th.

Check the recommendation

Link to the council agenda and 100 page documents on the study findings
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  #53  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 7:12 PM
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I agree with all the recommendations except 19th & 21st ones... the ones
TowerDistrict is most passionate about (sorry bud ) . I personally like
the streets the way they are now... so I'll be sending my letters to the
council members ASAP.
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  #54  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 7:22 PM
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Originally Posted by northbay420 View Post
if im not mistaken, san jose was (is?) in the process of converting some of its one-way streets to two-way. i think this was being done as a traffic-calming measure as some of the streets went through residential areas.

the results? i have no idea.

however, i personally believe that a city's downtown core should be mostly one-way to accomodate the higher traffic. as phillip said, if traffic is moving at 55 and the speed limit is 35, then traffic calming is a must! one way or not, i say, take out a lane for a streetcar.
Yeah I totally agree that downtown streets should remain one-ways the problem is that these one-ways cut through areas that are mostly residential east of 16th Street. The only exceptions are J Street which is commercial all the way to the freeway and I and L Street west of 21st Street.

I envision J Street in Midtown as a very cool urban commercial neighborhood street (ala San Francisco's Columbus Ave, Haight Street or Castro Street) between 16th (or 21st) and Alhambra Blvd. Even though it’s lined with shops and restaurants right now it just doesn't have that pedestrian quality.

Yes converting it to a two-way street (again east of 16th or 21st) would mean more traffic congestion but traffic is not the real problem on a street like J but rather it’s how well it's balanced with pedestrian activity. Cars and people can coexist if cars are not allowed to overwhelm the pedestrian's experience and people are not made to feel like intruders.

Look I don’t really need to defend my point because there are volumes written about this by more articulate and experienced people than I and tons of evidence to back up what I/we are saying. It’s a no brainer to me. It really boils down to choice. Do we choose expediency or higher quality of urban life?

Speaking of boulevards. There was a plan to create a riverside boulevard all along the northern edge of Downtown and Midtown linking Richards with Elvas in East Sacramento. If that boulevard were ever built it might take some of the pressure off of central Midtown.
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  #55  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 7:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TowerDistrict View Post
Here is the recommendation for DT/MT area street conversions. This will be going before the council on next Wednesday, March 20th.

Check the recommendation

Link to the council agenda and 100 page documents on the study findings
Thank you! I'm glad the 21st and 19th street conversions are their top priorities. There is no convenient north-south route for bikers in Midtown and this will help tremendously. I respect your right to disagree innov8 but do you really think bikers shouldn't have a safe bike lane when traveling up or down 19th and 21st? That traffic on these streets really warrants 3 lanes?
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  #56  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 7:33 PM
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Thank you! I'm glad the 21st and 19th street conversions are their top priorities. There is no convenient north-south route for bikers in Midtown and this will help tremendously. I respect your right to disagree innov8 but do you really think bikers shouldn't have a safe bike lane when traveling up or down 19th and 21st? That traffic on these streets really warrants 3 lanes?
Well, if bikers need to go cross town they can always use 17th Street, 18th Street,
22nd Street... bikers can use any number of streets.
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  #57  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 7:43 PM
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it's not just about bikers...

all the developers on 21st street are rewriting their price lists as we speak.
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  #58  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 7:50 PM
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Well, if bikers need to go cross town they can always use 17th Street, 18th Street,
22nd Street... bikers can use any number of streets.
thats not fair though! i've always wanted to cruise down 21st and 19th without disrupting traffic. those streets need bike lanes.
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  #59  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 7:58 PM
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Just wait till you get out of school... then you'll find out how unfair life is all the time.
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  #60  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 7:59 PM
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Well, if bikers need to go cross town they can always use 17th Street, 18th Street,
22nd Street... bikers can use any number of streets.
22nd st. is blocked at Q. 17th street is beat up in a lot of spots with no visible bike lane. None give bikers the convenience of riding north-south through a few traffic signals instead of a stop sign at every intersection. Cars have 9th street, 10th st., 16th street, 19th street, 21st street, all as three-lane freeways cutting through the downtown core. If 19th st. and 21st. were converted to two-lane freeways they would still have 9th, 10th, and 16th st. three-lane freeways. You're saying having 3 three-lane freeways and 2 two-lane freeways just for the less-traveled north-south route is too burdensome to drivers? And essentially bikers, most of whom live here unlike the drivers, can remain inconvenienced by the current set-up?
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