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  #61  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 8:02 PM
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Originally Posted by greenmidtown View Post
Thank you! I'm glad the 21st and 19th street conversions are their top priorities. There is no convenient north-south route for bikers in Midtown and this will help tremendously. I respect your right to disagree innov8 but do you really think bikers shouldn't have a safe bike lane when traveling up or down 19th and 21st? That traffic on these streets really warrants 3 lanes?
Greenmidtown,

You would love Amsterdam & Berlin. Bikes and bike lanes everywhere. My partner and I rented bikes first day in both cities; we fit right in. The bike lanes are separated from car traffic with raised barriers throughout the city. In Amsterdam, bikes out number cars. The streets are narrow and streetcars run everywhere.

On another note: Compare Stuttgart with Sacramento; cities & metros areas are exactly the same size. Difference: Since WWII, with American dollars, Stuttgart put all their efforts into subways, streetcars, lightrail, heavyrail. No freeways, 4-lane autobahns connecting with major cities, but no freeways.

They have absoultely no urban sprawl, green wide open spaces immediately outside the city, pedestrian malls that are fabulous and filled with TONS of people.

They have no suburban malls...its as if you took Sunrise Mall, Roseville galleria, Arden Fair...and put all that retail on two parallel pedestrian malls, its like London or Paris or Santa Monica's outdoor mall. They have a mini grand central station benneth the mall. It's awesome.

Stuttgart is not a tourist city; its low-key, sort of unremarkable like Sacramento. (opps did I say that), but true. Screw Portland; Stuttgart should be our model city!
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  #62  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 8:09 PM
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funny thing is that bikers in amsterdam and berlin are the only rude people in the city. but maybe that comes from having to constantly defend your space?

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  #63  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 8:14 PM
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Originally Posted by greenmidtown View Post
22nd st. is blocked at Q. 17th street is beat up in a lot of spots with no visible bike lane. None give bikers the convenience of riding north-south through a few traffic signals instead of a stop sign at every intersection. Cars have 9th street, 10th st., 16th street, 19th street, 21st street, all as three-lane freeways cutting through the downtown core. If 19th st. and 21st. were converted to two-lane freeways they would still have 9th, 10th, and 16th st. three-lane freeways. You're saying having 3 three-lane freeways and 2 two-lane freeways just for the less-traveled north-south route is too burdensome to drivers? And essentially bikers, most of whom live here unlike the drivers, can remain inconvenienced by the current set-up?
Funny... you call them freeways From my experiences of riding on the
downtown/midtown roads, they aren't freeways. The lights are timed so if
you want to go down 21st Street and not stop at every light, you cruse
a 30 mph. Some idiots don't seem to get that.

greenmidtown, this is my opinion. I spend a ton of time all over the grid either
working, living or taking lots of pictures that I share on the this forum.
However it works out, I bet in 20 years a new generation of Sacramentans
will think they know better and change it all over again.
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  #64  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 8:22 PM
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Just wait till you get out of school... then you'll find out how unfair life is all the time.
well actually i graduated early, and so far i havent noticed any differences. but thanks for trying
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  #65  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 8:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BrianSac View Post
Greenmidtown,

You would love Amsterdam & Berlin. Bikes and bike lanes everywhere. My partner and I rented bikes first day in both cities; we fit right in. The bike lanes are separated from car traffic with raised barriers throughout the city. In Amsterdam, bikes out number cars. The streets are narrow and streetcars run everywhere.

On another note: Compare Stuttgart with Sacramento; cities & metros areas are exactly the same size. Difference: Since WWII, with American dollars, Stuttgart put all their efforts into subways, streetcars, lightrail, heavyrail. No freeways, 4-lane autobahns connecting with major cities, but no freeways.

They have absoultely no urban sprawl, green wide open spaces immediately outside the city, pedestrian malls that are fabulous and filled with TONS of people.

They have no suburban malls...its as if you took Sunrise Mall, Roseville galleria, Arden Fair...and put all that retail on two parallel pedestrian malls, its like London or Paris or Santa Monica's outdoor mall. They have a mini grand central station benneth the mall. It's awesome.

Stuttgart is not a tourist city; its low-key, sort of unremarkable like Sacramento. (opps did I say that), but true. Screw Portland; Stuttgart should be our model city!
That's really funny because my mom's cousin visited us from Stuttgart in Portland and said it reminded him of Germany. Of course he was referring to the geography, forests and hills, rain. I would love for Sac to become something like Stuttgart but that's really a pipe dream. Europe just has the right mentality, community instinct, and willingness to tax for the benefit of all that we'll never have. I think even for Sac to reach Portland's level of urban planning will be a long, uphill struggle. People are really involved in local politics up their. Politicians and suburbanites alike fear Portland's urban core and capitulate willingly to their demands. Like the recent sky tram they finished building at a cost of I think 60 million dollars! We're just trying to get light-rail to the airport, streetcars, high-rise condos, a denser urban core; these are all things Portland already has and then some. We struggle to get freeways cutting through the urban core converted into streets in this city, how do we expect to set our city apart from auto-centric anytown USA if we don't even take the smallest risks?
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  #66  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by TowerDistrict View Post
funny thing is that bikers in amsterdam and berlin are the only rude people in the city. but maybe that comes from having to constantly defend your space?

Could be, or could it be because the cyclists are the majority. Majority rules.

Maybe it's because they are German and Dutch, I just dont know. I'd rather encounter a rude german biker over an american, dope-smoking auto-racing punk anytime. The dope-smoking Dutch aren't bad either.
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  #67  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 9:20 PM
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Originally Posted by greenmidtown View Post
That's really funny because my mom's cousin visited us from Stuttgart in Portland and said it reminded him of Germany. Of course he was referring to the geography, forests and hills, rain. I would love for Sac to become something like Stuttgart but that's really a pipe dream. Europe just has the right mentality, community instinct, and willingness to tax for the benefit of all that we'll never have. I think even for Sac to reach Portland's level of urban planning will be a long, uphill struggle. People are really involved in local politics up their. Politicians and suburbanites alike fear Portland's urban core and capitulate willingly to their demands. Like the recent sky tram they finished building at a cost of I think 60 million dollars! We're just trying to get light-rail to the airport, streetcars, high-rise condos, a denser urban core; these are all things Portland already has and then some. We struggle to get freeways cutting through the urban core converted into streets in this city, how do we expect to set our city apart from auto-centric anytown USA if we don't even take the smallest risks?
Ya, I know, i was not serious, Stuttgart is light years ahead of us. Its not possible to have what they have in this century.

Our suburbs are already built.

Our model cities should be Portland, first, Denver, Second. Maybe Salt Lake, but have not been there recently.

Can you think of other cities we can/should take notes from?

Other note: How many think CEQA is the golden ticket for anti-development advocates. Should we modify CEQA? Is CEQA untouchable? How would we change it?


Does Portland have CEQA like hurdles to overcome and if so, how do they get things done? Honestly, Portland didn't do anything for me. I dont know anyone there, anymore, he moved to Seattle.... so that may be why I dont get Portland....need to visit again.

The cities that I like have a special cool energy about them, you just love to be in them, i.e., NYC, LA (despite the cars and suburbs), SF, Seattle, New Orleans (pre-katrina), Chicago, Miami Beach, etc.....Portland just doesnt have that energy, despite its greenery, hills, rivers. I'd like to think that Sacramento could be more than that.
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  #68  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 9:59 PM
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Is it time to reconsider Sutter’s Landing Parkway?
The plan has been on the around since the 1950s -a landscaped parkway formerly known as the "Elvas-Richards Connector" but since re-named "Sutter's Landing Parkway" would connect Elvas Avenue to Richards Boulevard, creating a bypass around Midtown so that commuters in Downtown Sacramento could quickly get to Business 80 and East Sacramento. North of Midtown it would be located between the elevated railroad tracks north of B Street and the American River and run through a largely underdeveloped tract of land. Unfortunately the proposed route has been shortened to end at Business 80 to appease the NIMBYs in East Sacramento.
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  #69  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 10:55 PM
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Our model cities should be Portland, first, Denver, Second. Maybe Salt Lake, but have not been there recently.
BrianSac I don’t know why you would say Salt Lake City or Denver for that matter? Neither of these cities is very outstanding when you compare them to all the other cities around the globe we could possibly emulate.

Quote:
The cities that I like have a special cool energy about them, you just love to be in them, i.e., NYC, LA (despite the cars and suburbs), SF, Seattle, New Orleans (pre-katrina), Chicago, Miami Beach, etc.....Portland just doesnt have that energy, despite its greenery, hills, rivers. I'd like to think that Sacramento could be more than that.
All the cities on your list have a distinctive look, style and feel to them. I may not appreciate that style, look or feel as others do but I can feel their “energy”. I can’t tell how many people have said to me over the years that Sacramento just “doesn’t do it” for them. Sacramento is always cited as a good place to test market something because we are so average. Average isn’t very exciting.

If we ask ourselves what the Sacramento look or style is could we come up with an answer? We have to do better than “It’s not the Bay Area" or it’s close to something else.
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Last edited by ozone; Mar 16, 2007 at 11:09 PM.
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  #70  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BrianSac View Post
Ya, I know, i was not serious, Stuttgart is light years ahead of us. Its not possible to have what they have in this century.

Our suburbs are already built.

Our model cities should be Portland, first, Denver, Second. Maybe Salt Lake, but have not been there recently.

Can you think of other cities we can/should take notes from?

Other note: How many think CEQA is the golden ticket for anti-development advocates. Should we modify CEQA? Is CEQA untouchable? How would we change it?


Does Portland have CEQA like hurdles to overcome and if so, how do they get things done? Honestly, Portland didn't do anything for me. I dont know anyone there, anymore, he moved to Seattle.... so that may be why I dont get Portland....need to visit again.

The cities that I like have a special cool energy about them, you just love to be in them, i.e., NYC, LA (despite the cars and suburbs), SF, Seattle, New Orleans (pre-katrina), Chicago, Miami Beach, etc.....Portland just doesnt have that energy, despite its greenery, hills, rivers. I'd like to think that Sacramento could be more than that.
Salt Lake City?!!! No way in hell do I want Sac to even remotely resemble that dump. You know things like a thriving music scene, diversity, and having something to do past 8 do matter!

Denver I've heard some cool things about, I can't judge but it's so landlocked and surrounded by nothingness (in terms of other cool cities).

Portland has a very alternative energy to it. Right now half of it like the Pearl District has the energy of a smaller SOHO, with upscale condos, lofts, streetcars, and so much art. Powell's bookstore, the biggest in the country, is their. Then there's the other half of Portland, the Portland I grew up with, which is alternative, leftist, hippie, working-class, and sinful. Portland has the most strip clubs per capita, more in number even than SF, and the most breweries per capita. It's got a bit of an SF vibe, very liberal but less pretentious. Around Pioneer Square the community gathers and plans mischief, it's pretty cool. It does have energy, just not the type a religious person or conservative might be into.

Obviously Sac is a lot more moderate politically and the scene here is small, but it's got a bit of that Portland vibe to it. Sac really shouldn't model itself after anyone else though, even though the city council has clearly chosen to model the city after Portland, Sac needs to define itself and find what's unique about living here. I know at least in the diversity count we've got Portland beat. I'm always surprised when I go back to visit and struggle to find any minorities.
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  #71  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 11:43 PM
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i think what's truley unique about Sacramento is that noone agrees on anything. even if you agree with someone in sacramento, you're probably agreeing to disagree. i actually find that most agreeable. but you probably disagree.

it's not so great for getting things done by civic consensus, like the arena and whatever... but it's reassuring to know that you don't live as some assimilated collective being called sacramento.

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  #72  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2007, 11:54 PM
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I know at least in the diversity count we've got Portland beat. I'm always surprised when I go back to visit and struggle to find any minorities.
When it comes to diversity, Sacramento has most cities in this country beat by far. This town is trying so hard to match the level of urbanity found in other places, but demographically, the future of this country will resemble Sacramento. It's a wonderful asset we have. P.S. Stuttgart is wonderful. My favorite city in Germany. I'll end my non-transportation related tangent now
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  #73  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2007, 12:25 AM
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BrianSac I don’t know why you would say Salt Lake City or Denver for that matter? Neither of these cities is very outstanding when you compare them to all the other cities around the globe we could possibly emulate.
I was just throwing those cities out there. I mentioned Portland because our media, and city leaders seem to be so obsessed with that city, not sure why exactly?

Maybe we dont need a model city?

Quote:
If we ask ourselves what the Sacramento look or style is could we come up with an answer? We have to do better than “It’s not the Bay Area" or it’s close to something else.
I agree with you, but ask any city leader or anyone in Sac and 90% will say exactly that...... its close to this or that and that its not like the bay area or southern cal.

The only original synergy I've heard lately comes from Sactown Magazine.....seems like they are trying really hard to create that synergy and originality, and of course our brave and visionary developers like Saca, Nassi, and Petrovich....and whoever else belongs in this category.

Seems like the "preservationists" are winning the game, mostly because of EIR's and CEQA and skilled and greedy lawyers. What are they trying to preserve? A suburban way of life and look that was mainly appealing when the metro area had only 1 million people tops.

Our "urbanites" are not exactly urban either....when it comes to building in their neighborhood. Case in point: the L street 8 story lofts project was highly opposed by groups because it was too "tall" and "massive" for the neighborhood; i'm shocked the city approved it. I was all for it. Glad it is being built.

Timothy Busfields comment about the new B street Theater, "....There's alot of red tape involved and its a big deal to contruct anything downtown anywhere, especially in the state capital of California". taken from Sactown magazine, Elyssa Lee

Sorry folks; back on topic: We need a crosstown streetcar, maybe one that loops 19th and 21st, connects with the Broadway lightrail station.One that loops 15th/16th and 9th/10th, and an east/west one that loops J and N streets
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  #74  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2007, 12:59 AM
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Portland has a very alternative energy to it. Right now half of it like the Pearl District has the energy of a smaller SOHO, with upscale condos, lofts, streetcars, and so much art. Powell's bookstore, the biggest in the country, is their. Then there's the other half of Portland, the Portland I grew up with, which is alternative, leftist, hippie, working-class, and sinful. Portland has the most strip clubs per capita, more in number even than SF, and the most breweries per capita. It's got a bit of an SF vibe, very liberal but less pretentious. Around Pioneer Square the community gathers and plans mischief, it's pretty cool. It does have energy, just not the type a religious person or conservative might be into.
Ya, know you described it so well. Thats how I remember it...like 4yrs ago.
What was I thinking!

When is the next flight, I'm packing my bags as soon as my partner gets home from work. Any good hotels that accept pets. My dog goes wherever I go. Off-leash dog parks....where would those be?

Although, I should, hurry up, mow and fertilize my suburban lawn, first.
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  #75  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2007, 3:03 AM
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i think what's truley unique about Sacramento is that noone agrees on anything. even if you agree with someone in sacramento, you're probably agreeing to disagree. i actually find that most agreeable. but you probably disagree.
LOL, TowerDistrict. Sacramentans tendency to bicker and butt heads is reflected here on this board. Compare the Sacramento construction threads to some of those from the Pacific Northwest board. Portland and Seattle can put up a building, conception to ribboncutting, with a thread that goes 300 or 400 posts. In Sacramento we do 2,000 post threads, but nothing gets built. (Well not quickly or easily.)
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  #76  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2007, 3:07 AM
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I'm in my hot tub right now, having a beer, looking at the computer, and I see the GY blimp fly right over my head. That was pretty cool.

edit: my reason for posting was that a blimp is technically a form of transportation!
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  #77  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2007, 3:13 AM
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Enjoy your beer and your hot tub, brandon, but I don't wanna see you offering any $10,000 bets here later tonite!
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  #78  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2007, 3:17 AM
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I promise. Those days are behind me.
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  #79  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2007, 3:40 AM
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Originally Posted by brandon12 View Post
I'm in my hot tub right now, having a beer, looking at the computer, and I see the GY blimp fly right over my head. That was pretty cool.

edit: my reason for posting was that a blimp is technically a form of transportation!
I hope that you don't have the computer with you in the hot tub. Blimps are cool looking. Enjoy. I'm green and it's not because of St Paddy's.
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  #80  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2007, 2:57 PM
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Our model cities should be Portland, first, Denver, Second. Maybe Salt Lake, but have not been there recently.

Salt Lake City??



NO!


Salt Lake City would do well to duplicate the energy of Midtown Sacramento.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip View Post
In Sacramento we do 2,000 post threads, but nothing gets built. (Well not quickly or easily.)

Never easy or timely.... I was telling a friend here in Chicago just yesterday how amazed i am at how quickly things happen in this city, compared to Sacramento which is much smaller. Sacramento's biggest obstacle is that there are special interests groups that cover everything from Fairy Shrimp, to the Swainsons Hawk, to Gaint Garter snakes, and NIMBY neghborhood associations for every corner of town etc...... Then there's the CEQA (which is severely abused). Of course let's not forgot visionless politicians who are afraid to take a stand..

Here in Chicago Mayor Daley tells the USOC that if they want a $500 million city backed guarantee of funds for the 2016 Olympics, then they can have it; and he delivers it overwhelmingly in the City Council within a week. No talks, workshops or charettes. They debate it, vote on it and move on it. End of discussion......

Sacramento talks and studies things to death and never make things become a reality. Not without a years of effort and then there's plenty of things that they've been talking about for decades that remain just talk....

Funny how Chicago calls itself the "The city that works", while I've always called Sacramento (which I still love) "The can't do city"..
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